Connectors in Madarin
simonpettersson
February 19, 2010, 08:05 AM posted in General DiscussionThere's this guy called Anthony Lauder and he's got a small website about Czech, called anthonylauder.com. While it's about his learning Czech, it really applies to any language. Do read it; it's not too much text and it might be very useful. He talks about "connectors" or "language glue". Really useful stuff. Do you think we could get a list going on useful connectors in Mandarin? On his website, just click on the "Connectors starter pack" to get some inspiration on what kind of phrases are needed.
I'd contribute myself, but as I've never actually used my Mandarin, I don't really feel qualified. If someone who has some speaking experience could add some commonly used connectors, that'd be great. I think this is just what a lot of us need to get conversations flowing in Mandarin.
yulongjian
well done !我看好你哦!
daniel70
February 22, 2010, 03:36 PMSimon, I really like this thread. Too bad Team ChinesePod aren't chipping in. Three or four bits of glue from each Team member would be very useful, and a real positive contribution to the community. As Orangina has demonstrated, if it was english, we could bang out a list on our own.
WillBuckingham
February 19, 2010, 03:41 PMThis is fascinating stuff, and I think that you (and Anthony Lauder) are onto something really useful here. I could certainly do with a load more linguistic glue myself!
sarahk
February 19, 2010, 04:01 PMsorry I dont have any to contribute but I am anxiously waiting to read what other users will post, and I agree that it will be useful, any help learning this most difficult language is so appreciated. Thanks Simonpetterson for the info "language glue" what a great phrase! :)
orangina
February 19, 2010, 06:25 PMI tried to go to the website and wasn't able to, so either it is on the "wrong" server or my internet is jinky right now. I'll try again later. So, without having read more about language glue I will add a couple of my own:
反正:anyway,...
首先:first off
于是:hence, consequently
不论:regardless of
一定:certainly
看起来: seems like
是啊:yeah
对我来说:as far as I'm concerned
Thanks for bringing this up. I think these kinds of phrases are very important for fluency, so I write them down and forget to use them. Not terribly efficient. So this is a good reminder.
simonpettersson
Yeah, it's using Google Pages. Guess that's blocked now. I'll copy-paste the text below. Here's the first page:
Speaking Czech Fluently
How to Learn to Speak Czech Fluently
This website is about how to learn to speak Czech fluently.
It isn’t aimed at professional linguists or advanced Czech speakers.
It is more aimed at people with some basic knowledge of Czech, who want to get to the point where they feel comfortable with the language.
Just a Regular Guy
Hello, my name is Anthony Lauder. I am an Englishman, living in the beautiful city of Prague, in the Czech Republic.
Please understand that I am not a language guru. I am not even a teacher. I am just a regular guy who struggled to learn a language, until he hit on a few things that helped.
Maybe some of those things can help you too.
Feel free to contact me: anthony@anthonylauder.com
Struggling in a Language
You’ve probably heard stories of people who studied a language for years, and still struggled to order a coffee or buy a newspaper.
Well, not only have I heard of people like that, I was one of them myself.
It usually went something like this:
Shop assistant: “Hello, can I help you?”
Me: “Urm … urm … no thanks.”
Shop assistant: “Well,
Me: “Urm … I don’t speak Czech very well.”
… as I rushed out of the door too embarrassed to ever return.
Now, I am not talking about my first few days in the country here. I studied Czech for about two years, and still couldn’t say anything worth saying.
And Dreaming of Speaking Fluently
What I missed was fluency. I wanted the conversations to flow. I wanted them to go more like this:
Shop assistant: “Hello, can I help you?”
Me: “Thank you for asking, but for now I am just looking.”
Shop assistant: “Well,
Me: “Sorry, but to tell you the truth, I don’t speak Czech very well. Do you think that you could possibly repeat that more slowly?”
Shop assistant: “Yes, of course. Take all the time you need, and I will be over there, ok?”
Me: “That is very kind of you. Now that I think about it, can you tell me where the adventure books are?”
… and for the conversation to keep going like this for as long as we both wanted.
From Stumbling to Fluent
So, how was I going to get from stumbling in Czech to fluency in Czech?
Since the methods I had been using in from textbooks and in language classes weren’t helping much, I had to come up with a few techniques of my own.
Anthony Lauder's Approach to Fluency
Let’s begin by asking what fluency really is.
To me, fluency isn't about learning tens of thousands of words or learning all the grammar rules.
A wide vocabulary can help you talk about lots of topics, and grammar rules can help you speak with fewer mistakes.
Those things are essential, eventually, but I am more interested in helping people to speak fluently with the words and the grammar rules they already know.
Fundamentally, fluency is about keeping the conversation flowing, without uncomfortable pauses, so that everybody involved enjoys the experience and wants to keep the conversation going.
I have a lot more to say about that here: What is Fluency?
You can keep the conversation flowing by using the vocabulary that you already have in a way that increases intimacy between the people involved.
The trick here is to connect short bursts of facts from your vocabulary with what I call pre-rehearsed conversational intimacy connectors.
Each of these connectors is a natural invitation to either yourself, or the others you are talking with, to keep the conversation going.
You can find more about them here: Conversational Intimacy
When people are first learning to use conversational intimacy connectors, I give them a starter pack with about 100 connectors in.
The starter pack is great for practicing with, although overtime you should probably be replacing it with connectors that you discover for yourself.
Here, then, is a Connectors Starter Pack
simonpettersson
Second bit:
What is Fluency?
A Humbling Experience
How frustrating it was to have studied Czech for so long, and still not have a feeling of fluency in the language.
Sure, I could answer the kinds of questions asked in class: “Where is the pencil?” “The pencil is on the table!” and so on. But I couldn’t say much that was useful in real life.
So, I kept hitting the textbooks and going to classes. I kept saying to myself: “I just need to study more. If only I had more vocabulary, and learned more grammar, then things would finally click”.
Within a few months, I knew several thousand words, and was making headway in the notoriously difficult Czech grammar.
But even doing this, fluency never came. I still couldn’t hold a half-decent conversation.
It was a humbling experience.
So what was I doing wrong?
For the longest time, I couldn’t work it out.
Language Glue
Things changed during an ordinary conversation with Gina, an English friend living in Prague.
Gina said to me “Anthony, I have been studying Czech for two years, and I still can’t string together a sentence with more than six words in it.”
For some reason the way she phrased it kicked my brain into motion. The light bulb went on in my head. I started to wonder, “If you can string together six words, why can’t you string together ten, or twenty, or a hundred?”
I began to realise the problem isn’t that we lacked vocabulary or grammar; it’s that we couldn’t combine the bits of the language well enough to keep a conversation going.
We weren’t missing the pieces; we were missing the language glue to join the pieces together.
Conversational Flow
So, I started to listen to conversations. And I realized the most important thing in a conversation is keeping the flow going.
Anything that breaks the flow threatens to end the conversation.
If people have long gaps in their speech, you start to wonder if they have finished.
So, we tend to fill the gaps automatically as we try to keep the conversation going.
Now, if we are struggling with language fluency, we don’t know how to fill these gaps but we know we have to do something; so we say “urm” a lot:
"Hello ... urm ... my ... urm ... name is Anthony ... urm ... urm ... I am ... urm ... from England .. and I ... urm .... I am married ... urm ... urm ... my wife is Czech ... urm ... and urm ... she is ... urm ... she is ... urm ... urm ... a journalist."
These “urm” moments are where we are trying to think what to say next. Our brains are trying to remember the words and grammar.
The problem is that when we realize we are saying “urm” a lot we panic. We become embarrassed, and our mind goes blank.
It becomes very uncomfortable for you, and also for the person you are speaking to, since they don’t like to see you struggling, and it is hard for them to work out how to keep the flow going.
Soon, each of you is anxious for the conversation to end.
Sometimes I think of it as a bit like swimming in a river, where you want to be able to swim in the language but find yourself frantically paddling for your life.
Thinking about conversations in terms of this smooth flow, then, I no longer think of language fluency in terms of having a vocabulary of 30,000 words or a complete grasp of grammar (although that can only help!).
Instead, I now think of fluency as being able to use the vocabulary you already have, in real conversations that flow naturally in a way that feels comfortable for everybody involved in the conversation.
simonpettersson
Third bit:
Conversational Intimacy
Conversational Intimacy Connectors
Conversations need to flow.
So, what is the language glue that we were missing that keeps conversations flowing?
Instead of saying "urm" I now fill the gaps (and give myself some thinking time for the next sentence) by using lots of what I call "conversational intimacy connectors".
These connectors are small glue phrases between burst of factual information, that show you are "sharing" your thoughts with the other person.
Build Relationships
You see, conversation isn't just about telling facts, but also about establishing relationships with people.
Conversational intimacy connectors help establish and maintains that relationship (so the listener feels better connected to you) as well as getting over the "urm" moments that make people uncomfortable.
Here are some examples:
"To tell the truth ..."
"Between you and me ..."
"I have to say that ..."
"In all honesty ..."
"I am proud to say that ..."
"I haven't thought about this much before, but I actually believe that ..."
Make the Connectors Automatic
I began to collection these connectors from conversations, books, TV and radio, until I had a list of about 50 of them.
Then I practiced these phrases dozens (maybe even hundreds) of times until I could say them automatically, without having to put any effort into thinking about them.
Then I studied each one in depth, and thought hard about it to think of real-life situations when it would be used. At first, I used imaginary situations, until I felt that I associated a given connector automatically with those situations.
My focus was so that whenever I faced a real-life situation that previously would have caused me some embarrassment, it would now trigger appropriate connectors without conscious effort.
An Example
In restaurants, the waiter will often bring bread to the table that sometimes I don’t want. It always felt a bit abrupt when I said:
“(We don’t want) Nechceme (bread) chleba.”
Likewise, in a supermarket it always felt uncomfortable to say straight away:
“(I need) Potřebuju (a bag) tašku.”
Sure, I could add “(Please) Prosím” to try to make it more friendly, but I was much happier when I discovered the useful (and widely used) intimacy connector: “(Don’t be angry, but) Nezlobte se, ale …”
It is a much “lighter” form of apology than it sounds – essentially a deferential way of saying “Sorry for the inconvenience, but …” – and it is very effective in any setting where you want to get friendly service.
In place of the notoriously frosty Czech service, you will usually get a smile, and sometimes even a heartfelt apology that it isn’t a problem at all, and you shouldn’t worry about it.
I recommend practicing this phrase over and over, imagining real life situations where you would use it. It will quickly become automatic, so that when you really do face those situations your instinct will be to use say:
“(Sorry for the inconvenience, but) Nezlobte se, ale (we don’t want) nechceme (bread) chleba.”
Or
“(Sorry for the inconvenience, but) Nezlobte se, ale (I need) potřebuju (a bag) tašku.”
And so on.
No More Urms
Within a few weeks, the 50 or so conversational intimacy connectors in my list had become part of me, and they would flow from me naturally in situations where I had practiced them in the safety of my living room.
As a result, whenever I would previously have said "urm" to initiate conversations, or to bridge gaps (while I thought what to say next), my automatic instinct had soon become to use these connectors.
So, now, when asked:
“Tell me about yourself!”
The conversation is no longer:
"Hello ... urm ... my ... urm ... name is Anthony ... urm ... urm ... I am ... urm ... from England .. and ... and I ... urm .... I am married ... urm ... urm ... my wife is Czech ... urm ... and urm ... she is ... urm ... she is ... urm ... urm ... a political journalist."
Instead it is more like:
"Hello [that is a good question] [thanks for asking]. [First of all][I should say that] My name is Anthony [and between you and me] I am [actually] from England [I am happy to say that] I am married [As you may expect] my wife is Czech [and you may be interested to know that] she is [in fact] a political journalist."
Three Benefits
The difference in flow here brings three benefits:
1: I can use these connectors to bridge between sequences of short bursts of facts, and can keep the flow going for as long as I want.
2: I no longer get flustered, nor do I dread having a conversation, since my “thinking time” is now covered by connectors that I am happy to use with rather than “urm”s that embarrass me.
3: The person I am talking with becomes less embarrassed, because they no longer have to listen to my painful halting sentences.
Overall, the conversation flow is more pleasant and increases intimacy between people, rather than making it sound like an awkward “question/answer” session.
Reusing Connectors Everywhere
The great thing about these conversational intimacy connectors is that they can be reapplied to just about any situation. Without them, you can end up stuck in a cycle of learning vocabulary, with no chances to use any of it.
For example, one person I was teaching this technique to told me that she knew hundreds of words that she would hardly ever use (such as “Chobotnice” which means “Octopus”, and “Vrtulník” which means “Helicopter”).
All the effort put into learning these words, when they will probably crop us once every few years in real conversations!
Whereas, when I taught her “Nezlobte se, ale …” she emailed me later to say she had used it three times already that same day.
Conversational intimacy connectors, then can be used with whatever vocabulary you already have, and give a gentle framework in which to slot that vocabulary.
They even help you talk fluently in situations where you know hardly any suitable vocabulary at all.
For instance, a while back I had the great fortune to be invited into the beer cellar by a master brewer.
I only know a few beer-related words, but could strike up a conversation using connectors to join-up my limited vocabulary:
When he asked me which was the best Czech beer, I could say something like:
(That is quite a difficult question) To je docela těšká otázka. (I know that) Vím, že (it is a matter of opinion) je to věc názoru (but I must say that) ale musím říct, že (I do have my own opinion about it) mám svůj vlastní názor na to (and in my opinon) a podle mého názoru (Bernard-brand) Bernard (is my favourite beer) je mé oblibené pivo. (And how about you?) A co myslíte vy?
Here, you can see that hardly of the vocabulary relates to beer, but still I have shared my opinion, and kept the flow going, and ask the master-brewer for his own thoughts.
Non-Intrusive Thinking Time
Conversational intimacy connectors, then, help you maximize the vocabulary that you already have. Somebody I taught this to described it as“freeing” their vocabulary so it no longer felt like the words were trapped inside them.
Still there will be times when you still struggle because you simply don’t know the right word for something.
In these situations I use my “non-intrusive thinking time” to come up with alternative ways to say something. Non-intrusive thinking time is time when my brain is free to think without it interrupting the flow of the conversation.
The time when you are saying the well-rehearsed connectors offers non-intrusive thinking time. As do the natural pauses at the end of sentences.
Furthermore, a lot of the connectors end in words such as “but”, “and”, or “that”, and the moment before these final words offers a very natural time to insert a tiny pause to catch your breath, rather than the very unnatural pauses that come from “urm”. These pauses not only give your conversation a natural rhythm, but also give you additional non-intrusive thinking time about what to say next.
For example:
To je docela těšká otázka. {tiny pause} Vím, {tiny pause} že je to věc názoru {tiny pause} ale musím říct {tiny pause} že mám svůj vlastní názor na to {tiny pause} co se mě týče {tiny pause} podle mého názoru {tiny pause} Bernard {tiny pause} je nejlepší pivo. {tiny pause} A co myslíte vy?
Lost for Words
Despite this, you will still sometimes use the wrong word, or pronounce a word incorrectly, but that now becomes less important since a higher percentage of the conversation is fluent with connectors you do know flawlessly.
Despite this, you will still sometimes use the wrong word, or pronounce a word incorrectly, but that now becomes less important since a higher percentage of the conversation is fluent with connectors you do know well.
Instead of making a high percentage of mistakes, you spread the mistakes more thinly throughout the connectors, giving the (correct!) impression that you fluency rate is higher than you would have imagined.
Plus, when I really get stuck, I simply always steer the conversation to a different topic where you are on more familiar ground. And I have a bunch of connectors rehearsed dozens of times for exactly this. For example:
“(By the way) Mimochodem .”
“(Oh) Ach, (I almost forgot) málem jsem zapomněl …”
“(And one more thing) A ješte něco ....”
And so on.
simonpettersson
Fourth and final bit:
Connectors Starter Pack
A Springboard
When I teach people about conversational intimacy, I give them a “starter pack” of about 100 connectors, and I present them here.
There is nothing magical about these 100 or so connectors. They are just a springboard to get people going.
As soon as possible you should be throwing out connectors from the starter pack that you don’t find useful and adding connectors you come across in real-life.
I like to break the connectors into ten groups, based on the type of thing they do in a conversation:
Opening Connectors
Opening connectors are used when somebody has just asked a question, and you want to start answering it.
thank you heartily
děkuji srdečně
that is a good question
to je dobrá otázka
that is such a difficult question
to je taková těžká otázka
once upon a time, long ago
kdysi, dávno
When you are asked a question, it can put you on the spot. Your mind can go blank, and soon you don't know how to even start answering.
Opening connectors are really useful for getting the first few words out of your mouth (“breaking the silence”) while you settle down to give the real answer to the question.
Imagine you are asked where you are from, and your brain is racing to first fully comprehend the question and second to come up with an answer.
You can get some breathing space by starting out with:
“To je dobrá otázka ...” then once the momentum is going your brain relaxes and it is much easier to keep going and say “… (I am from England) jsem z Anglie”
Filler Connectors
Filler connectors are throw-away phrases you can insert when you need a little more thinking time.
They give the illusion of deep pondering, or sharing something personal, which is exactly what you want while you think of what you are going to say next:
understandably
pochopitelně
frankly speaking
upřímě řečeno
between you and me
mezi námi řečeno
anyway
nicméně
well then
nuže tedy
well, as a matter of fact
no, ve skutečnosti
how can I put it?
jak bych to řekl?
I must say that
musím říct, že
firstly
za prvé
secondly
za druhé
I would like you to know that
rád bych, abyste věděl, že
I am afraid that
obávám se, že
now and then it seems to me that
chvilemi se mi zdá, že
after all
přece jenom
as far as I am concerned
co se mě týče
more and more
čím dál víc
actually
vlastně
all joking aside
konec srandy
now seriously
teď vážně
As an example, somebody asks:
“(Where) Kde (do you live) bydlíte?”
If your brain panics, or you feel that just saying a place name is too abrupt, you can throw some filler in there before the answer:
“(Between you and me) Mezi námi řečeno (I live in Prague) bydlím v Praze”
Apologising Connectors
When you make a mistake, or feel embarrassed, or you are about to put somebody in a slightly uncomfortable situation, it is all too easy to blush, panic, and revert to your own language.
Instead, if you have rehearsed the Apologising Connectors until they become part of you, you will soon find that your automatic reaction to embarrassment is to use one of them to defuse the tension.
They will get you over the embarrassment hurdle so you can carry on.
don't be upset, but
nezlobte se, ale
it was a slip of the tongue
to mi uklouzlo
I said it by mistake
řekl jsem to omylem
I am sorry that
omluvám se, že
Qualifying Connectors
Czechs tend to not be overly impressed with show-offs, so a bit of humility gets you a long way.
To soften a statement, instead of just saying something as if it is a fact, it can help to wrap it up with a qualifying connector.
There are loads of these, and you need to keep varying them throughout a conversation so you don’t sound like a robot stuck on replay.
to tell the truth
abych pravdu řekl
I presume that
já se domnívám, že
I hope that
doufám že
in my opinion
podle mého názoru
if that is true
jestli je to pravda
I don't know exactly
já nevím přesně
I would like to think that
chtěl bych myslet že
the way I see it is that
vidím to tak, že
as you may know
jak asi víte
I don't have a big interest in that
nemám velký zájem o to
if I understand correctly
rozumím-li dobře
as you already know
jak už víte
that isn't such a big problem
to není takový velký problém
that is a matter of opinion
to je věc názoru
as far as I know
pokud vím
I have the impression that
mám dojem, že
it is usually true that
obvykle platí, že
you never know, but
nikdy nevíte, ale
I haven't thought about it before, but
nikdy dřív jsem na to nemyslel, ale
if I am not mistaken
pokud se nemýlím
I am not certain whether
nejsem si jistý, zda
like every other man
jako každý druhý muž
I have my own opinion on it, but
mám svůj vlastní názor na to, ale
I am not such an expert, but
nejsem takový odborník, ale
So, for example, if somebody asks if you like Prague, instead of just blurting out “yes” or “it is a beautiful town”, you can increase you fluency by using a qualifying connector in front:
“(In my opinion) Podle mého názoru ... (Prague is a beautiful city) Praha je krásné město”
Agreeing and Disagreeing Connectors
Simply saying “yes” or “no” all the time makes a conversation sound like an interrogation session.
Add a bit more warmth to the conversation by using Agreeing and Disagreeing Connectors.
one hundred percent
na sto procent
without question
bez debat
exactly right
přesně tak
most certainly
zcela určitě
without doubt
bezpochyby
in no case
v žádném případě
that isn't true at all
to vůbec není pravda
that is an exaggeration
je to přehnané
in principle that is true, but
v zásadě je to pravda, ale
admittedly that is true, but
to je sice pravda, ale
that's one way to say it
i tak by se to dalo říct
only up to a certain point
jen do určité míry
certainly, why not?
určitě, proč ne?
I agree
souhlasím
As you gain confidence, you will find yourself using more than one at a time.
Somebody will ask if you agree with something, and instead of just saying yes, you will find yourself saying something like:
“(A hundred percent) Na sto procent … (without question) bez debat … (I agree) souhlasím”
Of course, you can mix in other kinds of connectors too. For example, a bit of filler:
“(I must say that) Musím říct, že ... (a hundred percent) na sto procent … (without question) bez debat … (I agree) souhlasím”
Elaborating Connectors
Often, when we are put on the spot with a question, we blurt out the simplest answer we can think of:
“Where are you from?”
“England”.
Whenever I have done that, I feel a bit relieved that I at least said something, but at the same time a bit awkward that our answer was so short, and disappointed in myself since I know I could have said more.
In other words, it is too easy to fall back onto talking below your real level of fluency.
We want to get over that.
You can rescue these situations by throwing in some well-rehearsed elaborating connectors.
They bridge from a simple blurted-out answer to something more in-depth that you now feel relaxed enough to say and proud to have said.
to be more precise
přesněji řečeno
and what's more
a co víc
while I am already talking about it
když už o tom mluvím
I would like to emphasise that
rád bych zdůraznil, že
should I explain in greater detail?
měl bych vysvětlit podrobněji?
allow me to say it another way
dovolte, abych to řekl jinak
that is to say
totiž
a sice
and more specifically
nevertheless
přesto
even though
I když
that sounds like
to zní jako
and that is why
a proto
jinými slovy
in other words
abych řekl jinak
to say it another way
So now, a question like: “(Where are you from) Odkud jste?”
Lets you blurt out a quick and easy reply and follow it up with an elaborating connector while you think of a more detailed answer:
“(I am from England) Jsem z Anglie …. (and specifically) a sice … (from Oxford) z Oxfordu”
Quoting Connectors
One way to create intimacy in a conversation is to share things that somebody else told you. It can feel a bit like inviting somebody very briefly into your close circle of friends.
Here, then, are a few useful connectors for quoting something:
she said something like
říkala něco ve smyslu, že
my wife pointed out that
moje manželka poukázala na to, že
recently, I heard that
nedávno jsem slyšel, že
my better half said
moje lepší polovička řekla, že
Of course, you may have to change these around a bit if you don’t have a wife.
And, as usual, you can combine these with other connectors to make the sentence keep flowing.
Switching Connectors
When you are really lost for words, a good technique is to give a very brief answer to the current question, and then switch smoothly to a completely different topic where you feel on safer ground.
now it occurs to me that
teď mi napadá, že
by the way
mimochodem
I have an interesting story about it
mám na tom zajímavý příběh
and besides that
a mimo to
oh, I nearly forgot
ach, málem jsem zapomněl
and one more thing
a ještě neco
on the other hand
zato
I remember trying to take this to the extreme one time, when asked about some music group I had never heard of.
I mumbled out that they weren’t my favourite group, and then used a switching connector to start talking about a movie I had just seen.
Since the woman I was talking to didn’t seem to be offended, I just kept going and practiced deliberately using switching connectors as much as I could.
We ended up chatting non-stop for an hour and a half!
Closing Connectors
When you have finished talking about something, you can just leave it to end there, or you can wrap it up with a closing connector.
To be honest, I find that I don’t use closing connectors often, but sometimes they feel just right.
that is all there is to say
tím že řečeno vše
that is all for now
to je pro zatím vše
to sum up
abych shrnul
and there is the problem
a v tom je ta potíž
I hope it is only a question of time
doufám, že je to jen otázka času
that remains to be seen
to se teprve pozná
Passing Connectors
Finally, a conversation isn’t a monologue – it is an exchange between several people.
Sometime it is useful and polite to “pass the baton” to somebody when the time comes.
can you tell me please
můžete mi prosím říct
would you be interested in us talking about something else?
měl byste zájem abychom mluvili o něco jiného?
and what do you think?
a co myslíte vy?
bababardwan
ok,well as I say,I think this guy has some really good advice.His example:
"Hello [that is a good question] [thanks for asking]. [First of all][I should say that] My name is Anthony [and between you and me] I am [actually] from England [I am happy to say that] I am married [As you may expect] my wife is Czech [and you may be interested to know that] she is [in fact] a political journalist."
..I think is much better than the "umm,er" one preceding it...definitely an improvement,smoother,more flowing and good practice.I think he is also really exaggerating it a bit to drive home a point here,but of course ultimately your goal would not be to speak so circuitously [but agree it is a good stepping stone..but one that if we were to take his example would need to be honed back somewhat] as people will sometimes tire of such beating around the bush and it could sound a little strange. It is [in a different way] reminiscent of the the clever dialogues that were produced in the wonderful TV series "Yes Minister".I mean "between you and me I am actually from England"...why the confidentiality? ..is there a war on I don't know about? ....but hey,he's just making a point I know and one worth noting I think.
orangina
I got the feeling from some of these that they are culturally appropriate in Czech. Maybe thinking of language connectors in one's native language and translating would be a good start, but they should be modified as the learner gains experience. I think this is why English speakers so badly want to say 你好吗, as per the most recent QingWen. I think these little phrases with not much actual meaning are hard to predict in another language. For me, the goal is learning what phrases fit the same cultural purpose, not translating the phrases.
bababardwan
yeah,good point.That did occur to me.As I don't know any czech I have no way of knowing how much this was culturally appropriate,but anyway I was being somewhat flippant and the main point he was making was a good one and as you rightly point out we need to work out what's culturally appropriate in Chinese and apply that.I suppose I was just spying a situation where you could go overboard with this [too much language glue and you may end up bound up in knots....那,其实,实在我打算告诉你呢【不过千万别告诉别人】,啊,哦。。不好意思,我忘了我什么说。。。,but that's not to detract from it's usefulness to us as learners.
simonpettersson
February 19, 2010, 07:08 PMYeah, it's using Google Pages. Guess that's blocked now. I'll copy-paste the text below. Here's the first page:
Speaking Czech Fluently
How to Learn to Speak Czech Fluently
This website is about how to learn to speak Czech fluently.
It isn’t aimed at professional linguists or advanced Czech speakers.
It is more aimed at people with some basic knowledge of Czech, who want to get to the point where they feel comfortable with the language.
Just a Regular Guy
Hello, my name is Anthony Lauder. I am an Englishman, living in the beautiful city of Prague, in the Czech Republic.
Please understand that I am not a language guru. I am not even a teacher. I am just a regular guy who struggled to learn a language, until he hit on a few things that helped.
Maybe some of those things can help you too.
Feel free to contact me: anthony@anthonylauder.com
Struggling in a Language
You’ve probably heard stories of people who studied a language for years, and still struggled to order a coffee or buy a newspaper.
Well, not only have I heard of people like that, I was one of them myself.
It usually went something like this:
Shop assistant: “Hello, can I help you?”
Me: “Urm … urm … no thanks.”
Shop assistant: “Well,
Me: “Urm … I don’t speak Czech very well.”
… as I rushed out of the door too embarrassed to ever return.
Now, I am not talking about my first few days in the country here. I studied Czech for about two years, and still couldn’t say anything worth saying.
And Dreaming of Speaking Fluently
What I missed was fluency. I wanted the conversations to flow. I wanted them to go more like this:
Shop assistant: “Hello, can I help you?”
Me: “Thank you for asking, but for now I am just looking.”
Shop assistant: “Well,
Me: “Sorry, but to tell you the truth, I don’t speak Czech very well. Do you think that you could possibly repeat that more slowly?”
Shop assistant: “Yes, of course. Take all the time you need, and I will be over there, ok?”
Me: “That is very kind of you. Now that I think about it, can you tell me where the adventure books are?”
… and for the conversation to keep going like this for as long as we both wanted.
From Stumbling to Fluent
So, how was I going to get from stumbling in Czech to fluency in Czech?
Since the methods I had been using in from textbooks and in language classes weren’t helping much, I had to come up with a few techniques of my own.
Anthony Lauder's Approach to Fluency
Let’s begin by asking what fluency really is.
To me, fluency isn't about learning tens of thousands of words or learning all the grammar rules.
A wide vocabulary can help you talk about lots of topics, and grammar rules can help you speak with fewer mistakes.
Those things are essential, eventually, but I am more interested in helping people to speak fluently with the words and the grammar rules they already know.
Fundamentally, fluency is about keeping the conversation flowing, without uncomfortable pauses, so that everybody involved enjoys the experience and wants to keep the conversation going.
I have a lot more to say about that here: What is Fluency?
You can keep the conversation flowing by using the vocabulary that you already have in a way that increases intimacy between the people involved.
The trick here is to connect short bursts of facts from your vocabulary with what I call pre-rehearsed conversational intimacy connectors.
Each of these connectors is a natural invitation to either yourself, or the others you are talking with, to keep the conversation going.
You can find more about them here: Conversational Intimacy
When people are first learning to use conversational intimacy connectors, I give them a starter pack with about 100 connectors in.
The starter pack is great for practicing with, although overtime you should probably be replacing it with connectors that you discover for yourself.
Here, then, is a Connectors Starter Pack
bababardwan
February 20, 2010, 01:42 AMSimon,props to you mate for yet another excellent and useful post,possibly your best yet [sorry catherine,but I think I'm going to be a swinging voter and change my vote to this being the best thread lately].You always bring excellent academic content to the community and for that I thank you.
I was particularly interested in this chaps comment:
"Instead, I now think of fluency as being able to use the vocabulary you already have, in real conversations that flow naturally in a way that feels comfortable for everybody involved in the conversation."
...an excellent observation I think.I really like this concept and the concept of language glue.I hope we get lots of examples in this thread.I think they will be really worth studying pronto and mastering.Not got much time at the moment to sink my teeth into this thread but off the top of my head a couple of quick things...
ne
fanzheng
en ..and all the other groans,minimal encouragers [which I think in Chinese work differently to the English umms and ah's...bit like the Japanese hai ...which I believe doesn't necessarily convey agreement but serves to notify the other person you're listening and following and please continue]
I'll get back to this later,but in the meantime,thanks again mate and Jiayou. :)
yulongjian
February 19, 2010, 10:49 AMwell done !我看好你哦!
orangina
February 20, 2010, 01:32 PMOk, so let's put together our own Mandarin Connecters Starter Pack. I've taken Anthony Lauder's list and removed all of the explanations and Czech translations. I think some won't work in Mandarin, and of course there are more that could be added. If you guys help me get a good list of phrases going, I will type it up all pretty and make it available to everyone.
1> Opening Connectors
thank you heartily
that is a good question
that is such a difficult question
once upon a time, long ago
2> Filler Connectors
understandably
frankly speaking
between you and me
anyway
well then
well, as a matter of fact
how can I put it?
I must say that
firstly
secondly
I would like you to know that
I am afraid that
now and then it seems to me that
after all
as far as I am concerned
more and more
actually
all joking aside
now seriously
3> Apologizing Connectors
don't be upset, but
it was a slip of the tongue
I said it by mistake
I am sorry that
4> Qualifying Connectors
to tell the truth
I presume that
I hope that
in my opinion
if that is true
I don't know exactly
I would like to think that
the way I see it is that
as you may know
I don't have a big interest in that
if I understand correctly
as you already know
that isn't such a big problem
that is a matter of opinion
as far as I know
I have the impression that
it is usually true that
you never know, but
I haven't thought about it before, but
if I am not mistaken
I am not certain whether
like every other man
I have my own opinion on it, but
I am not such an expert, but
5>Agreeing and Disagreeing Connectors
one hundred percent
without question
exactly right
most certainly
without doubt
in no case
that isn't true at all
that is an exaggeration
in principle that is true, but
admittedly that is true, but
that's one way to say it
only up to a certain point
certainly, why not?
I agree
6> Elaborating Connectors
to be more precise
and what's more
while I am already talking about it
I would like to emphasize that
should I explain in greater detail?
allow me to say it another way
that is to say
and more specifically
nevertheless
even though
that sounds like
and that is why
in other words
to say it another way
7> Quoting Connectors
she said something like
my wife pointed out that
recently, I heard that
my better half said
8>Switching Connectors
now it occurs to me that
by the way
I have an interesting story about it
and besides that
oh, I nearly forgot
and one more thing
on the other hand
9> Closing Connectors
that is all there is to say
that is all for now
to sum up
and there is the problem
I hope it is only a question of time
that remains to be seen
10> Passing Connectors
can you tell me please
would you be interested in us talking about something else?
and what do you think?
WillBuckingham
February 20, 2010, 02:33 PMAgain, I think this will be really helpful. A Chinese friend said to me recently "you know lots of words, now you just have to find a way of using them..."
A quick question - should we be mirroring the whole of Anthony Lauder's site in this thread without checking it out with him first?
orangina
oh, good question... I assume he is freely sharing this info... But assumptions are what they are.
orangina
February 20, 2010, 02:39 PMoh, good question... I assume he is freely sharing this info... But assumptions are what they are.
bababardwan
February 22, 2010, 11:51 AMI think Simon's excellent post here is worth a bump.Any other suggestions? Sorry I'm really caught up with stuff at the moment myself to contribute,but I do intend to look further into this thread when a get more of a chance.
simonpettersson
I could try to translate some of orangina's list items, but as I have never actually spoken with a Chinese person, it seems to me less than ideal.
simonpettersson
February 22, 2010, 12:19 PMI could try to translate some of orangina's list items, but as I have never actually spoken with a Chinese person, it seems to me less than ideal.
xiaophil
February 20, 2010, 03:42 AMPretty interesting stuff...
I'll add a few off the top of my head to keep this going:
- 而且 and on top of that
- 很难说 It's hard to say
- 怎么说呢 How should I say this. (A great way to pause without uttering ums.)
simonpettersson
February 19, 2010, 08:30 AMWhat the heck, I'll try a couple anyway. How do these sound?
原来是这样 yuánlái shì zhèyàng So that's how it is
问得好 wènde hǎo Good question
我听说 wǒ tīngshuō I've heard that
其实,我觉得 qíshí, wǒ juéde Actually, I think
这是说 zhè shì shuō This is to say
这样吧 zhèyàng ba How about this?
你说 nǐ shuō Tell me,
你说是不是?nǐ shuō shì bu shì? Do you agree?
Do these all sound correct? Do fill in with more! I feel I'm a bit short in the "more specifically" department.