Dear Amber - China Fruit and Pre-Marital Sex

Here are pics of the fruit we talk about in the podcast:

杨梅 (yángméi) - bayberry

荔枝 (lìzhī) - lychee

龙眼 (lóngyǎn) - longan

金梨 (jīnlí) - pear

柿子 (shìzi) - persimmon

槟榔 (bīnglang) - betel nut                      

榴莲 (liúlián) - durian

柚子 (yòuzi) - pomello

This is a wonderful chapter! Very informative and very funny. Keep it up. Fruit and sex education are definitely compatible topics.

I love how listener Michael so eloquently phrased a sex question to get it on the Dear Amber show.

It's good to know there is absolutely NO difference between the way the kids in China learn about sex and the kids in America.

Now that you've done a show about food and sex, could you make the next show about smoking a cigarette and politely asking a guest to leave your house?

What about putting babies up for adoption?

I am just a little sceptical about the Chinese attitude to sex stated in the podcast.  I just wonder if it is over exaggerated.  Perhaps a Chinese person would be very reluctant to admit (even if true) that Chinese are more promiscuous.

Is this really the experience of Westerners (mainly men) of Chinese girls?  Or do Chinese girls more readily/quickly sleep with foreign men?

I hope noone takes offence at my comments.

Totally off-topic, but what was the name and artist of the song you played right at the start, with the whistling? I've heard it everywhere but nobody can tell me what it's called!

The song is Young Folks by Peter Bjorn And John.

http://www.myspace.com/peterbjornandjohn

I think in the bigger citys its more common to see one night stands and such.

However it is funny to me that whenever the subject of sex is brought up most Chinese will blush and or grin in a very embarrassed way and then become rather quiet. I think its kind of cute. lol

I just had 荔枝 (lìzhī) for the first time the other day! 很好吃!!

I believe these are the 槟榔 (bīnglang) betel nut girls.

In Australia (and other places according to Wikipedia) these Asian pears are known as nashi pears.

I really liked the dried persimmons in China - really common in the street stalls, but yet we cannnot get them in Australia - although fresh persimmons are common.

i wish the chinese would stay good and wait till marriage not be like americans in this

im from florida usa.. my name is tim d_boy30@hotmail.com

Great episode as usual, but what's up with the "free internet in China" comment? Why do you need a national ID to use a computer in an internet cafe? Why are so many youtube videos and BBC articles blocked, for example? Or why aren't there any CP lessons that touch deeply on politics? The lack of freedom of ideas in China bothers me as an American, and when I see that individuals with tighly censored information feel like they are receiving a wholistic view I can't help but say something.

Thanks Michael for visiting us. I just want better for you.

What fun topics! Firstly I love the variety of fruits we get in Asia. I love durian, by the way. I come from Malaysia and I didn't know it was available in China. We describe the flesh as sweet and creamy rather than stringy and slimy. And I'm not sure if it's a taste you can acquire after 5 tastes of it, as kids trying it for the first time usually either love it or hate it, and that preference often lasts for life. Similar thing with foreigners.

The sex topic was so amusing. I think traditional Chinese culture views premarital sex and public display of sexuality as a social taboo even though Chinese people are the same as all other people the world over in terms of "wanting to do it", so it's not admitted or brought out in the open as much.

P/S. Never had hayberry before. Looks yum.

At the risk of being too blunt and offensive, I think premarital sex is very common in the big cities of China. The frequency seems to vary most dramatically with the attractiveness of the girl and the financial independence of the guy.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/tobie_openshaw/sets/72157594581621891/

I had cooked durian for desert in SH recently and it was very good. Didnt stink and didnt taste strange. I have yet to try it in its raw form. Im guessing I will not like it but there is a chance I may find it wonderful in some way. I think the smell would be a problem however. Who wants to walk around smelling like rotten socks all day? A sure way to prevent any pre-marital sex or one night stands.

RJ

Good show, and it's great to finally know what some of those fruits are called!

I always thought our hang ups regarding sex had to do with our puritan Christian heritage in the west but it is interesting that the same attitudes developed in a non Christian nation. So how about part 2? You have dealt with young people but what about affairs and mistresses? Attitudes toward prostitution? Just how brave are you cpod?

RJ

The New York Times recently ran an article about single mothers in China and some of the legal and social barriers they face in raising their children. For those who are interested:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/06/world/asia/06china.html?_r=1&scp=1&

sq=single+mothers+China&st=nyt&oref=slogin

I'm an American currently studying at Tsinghua University in Beijing. I do not know about any official rules (the foreign students studying Chinese are a bit separated), but on the surface there are no restrictions on dating. I have seen couples in the dining hall hug, hold hands, and some things a bit more physical, never so far as kissing in public.

There's something I'm not getting... If most students "obey the rules" and don't have pre-marital sex, how come the average ages for first sexual intercourse are quoted as 21-22yo for men and 19-20yo for women? Or is there a big difference between the sexual mores of college students and young people who don't go on to higher education?

David mentioned parents being open, which I think is translated as 开放 kai1fang4.  This term does mean open minded but I've heard girls thus described in a disparaging way, so does this also mean 'easy' or liberal morally?

I teach university students from all over the country and a few do have a decent level of sex education in high school including disease prevention awareness, but most I have spoken with don't talk with their parents about sex and feed their curiosity from the sleazy sources mentioned or kind of find out by doing it, with all the dangers that go along with that. Many others insist traditional values are best.

Amber,

Maybe pre-marital sex is not common; however, I am told that extra-marital relationships are becoming popular again with men of means having a few 小老婆 set up in their own apartments outside of the marital abode.  是不是?

You would think that Chinese women would realize that with the 4:1 male to female ratio that they could pretty much write their own ticket and not have to settle for being less than anybody's one and only.

kesirui says 9 hours ago   However it is funny to me that whenever the subject of sex is brought up most Chinese will blush and or grin in a very embarrassed way and then become rather quiet. I think its kind of cute. lol

I'm the same. :P

Please China, dont become the new America---->. Prostitution and tranvestites are cool trends, 15yr old mothers, sex at 10yrs old while smoking joints in elementary school. And when we say no to them, its breaking the law by taking away their right of speech....blah blah blah....

Very good DA.

Regarding the fruits: As soon as I began telling everybody about that miracolous 柿子-fruit you only find in China, all large German retail outlets started offering them in their regular sortiment...together with those delicious pears and apples imported from China (although the ones in China are still a class juicier).

Now you get 柿子 at Aldi and Lidl. They are either called "Kaki" or "Sharon" here (no connection to any Poddie intended).

But be warned: They are often already 涩 [sè] in those supermarked. (there is obviously no translation for this. If 柿子 are 涩 and you eat them you get a furry tongue, feels strange).

I really hope China doesn't become a degenerate nation like America. Americans are doing all kinds of disgusting things with fruit--cooking them down into jellies and jams, baking fruit pies, making fruit smoothies. And the fruits Americans eat are just not right! Blueberries, apples, cranberries...it's unimaginable! There are some people in America who believe tomatoes are a fruit!

Thank you, Amber, for daring to discuss such a controversial topic. I myself am not afraid to talk about fruit but I know that a lot of people on CPod are uncomfortable with the topic. I hope this page doesn't get blocked by the Great Firewall because of those explicit fruit pictures you posted. The ones near the top are OK but near the bottom where you show the fruits being undressed...it's scandalous!

a1pi2,

Botanically, a tomato is a fruit ! See the wikipedia page  "Fruit or vegetable ?"

You totally forgot about 山竹果: mangosteen

shan1 zhu2 guo3

Very interesting combination of topics today.  It was interesting to hear from a local perspective on the topic of sex.

I love asian fruits.  Tried all except for the 槟榔.  Not sure if I want to have stained teeth though. 

There used to be a restaurant in Toronto that served 榴莲酥 (Durian flaky pastry) for 點心 (dim sum).  Yum-Oh!  That would be a good introduction to 榴莲 for those afraid to try one in the natural form.

great lesson, thx! and what an interesting combination. made me think of a short story I read a while ago.. so for those interested in contemporary literature, here's the link:

http://www.boxun.com/hero/malan/7_1.shtml

it's by chinese female author 马兰 (Mǎlán) and it also combines these two.. well.. juicy topics.

Seems that 桂圆(guìyuán), which is another word for 龙眼, has some kind of aphrodisiac effect.. :-?

Last time I was in China I ran to the grocery store late at night to buy some fruit. I spotted some beautiful American Cherries so I grabbed them also. As I checked out and started to walk away I realized how much I had paid for some fruit. I am not used to thinking in RMB and I was in a hurry. As I inspected the bad of goodies I realized I had paid 300 RMB for a kilo of Cherries. Im still mad about that. The next day I bought some Chinese Cherries on the street for 15 RMB for half a kilo.

well then Bazza, you must have been pink in the face for this lesson :D

I know that 二百五　means crazy foolish ect. person but what is the story?  :o I've heard some like 1000 is a whole and 250 is 1/4 of 1000.

The first time I traveled to Hong Kong (1 year before I visited mainland China) I discovered the beautiful and delicious 火龙果 (huo3long2guo2) Fire Dragon Fruit. I have only found this fruit in the USA in Chinatown, Manhatton for ridiculously high prices. If you visit China you must eat 火龙果.  The puple skin and green leaves on the outside hide milky white flesh peppered with tiny black seeds on the inside.  The flavor is like a more subtle Kiwi with less tang.

kesirui says 2 hours ago well then Bazza, you must have been pink in the face for this lesson :D

I haven't listened to it yet, I'm still trying to get my ipod to communicate with itunes. I think they've had a fight because they're refusing to talk to each other at the moment.

About 柿子shi4zi3, I have something to add.^_^

Have you ever known about 柿饼shi4bing2?

It is made of柿子persimmon. It's very delicious.

Here comes another one, it is枇杷pi2pa2 in chinese.

枇杷pi2pa2=loquat

Cassielin, I agree, shi bing is really delicious. Had some at the Moslem market in Xi'an. Was so good I didn't even mind having my pocket picked while I ate it.

Would crawl through a room full of naked women to get to a good Durian. The ultimate fruit. Try it once and you won't like it, twice - take it or leave it, three times not bad, fourth time - nice, by the fifth time you're injecting it through your eye 10 times a day. I travel to Malaysia every year just to eat "Red Prawn" Durian.

If anyone wants to come with me to eat Durian and learn tai chi, then visit www.taichipenang.com

Thanks CP - luvin' it.

Hello everybody. I really enjoyed this Dear Amber, thanks! We have two mature 榴莲 (durian) trees in my garden. Only two? But each tree yields 100 -- 150 fruit per season. And it's not uncommon to have two growing seasons in a calendar year.

What Amber didn't mention is that those spikes are rigid -- with very sharp points --, and that the fruit are approximately the size and weight of an human head when they fall to the ground. Not only that, durian trees grow very tall, so most of these armoured missiles will free-fall (--> and accelerate) through at least 30 - 40 metres before the terminal "thunkk!". We were replacing a certain section of zinc roofing every year before we shelled out for reinforced steel sheets (the vendor thought we were joking!).

Hmm... growing your own durians is not for the faint-hearted. The main taproot of a mature tree goes straight down to a depth of 50 metres, and the buttress roots grow out so far from the tree that they can damage sewage pipes 30 metres from the tree (we have the bills to prove it).

Still, durians are delicious! Our trees have different "parents"; the fruit from one is more "XO", the other is more "vanilla". Both of our trees are fruiting now, and I can't wait for the fruit to start whizzing down in a few days. Yay! My mother uses an Excel spreadsheet to keep track of the "Durian List", which is like a "VIP list" of family friends who look forward to receiving 4 - 6 of our durians every season. 

P/s: Our next-door neighbours are a young Dutch family, enjoying their first posting outside the Netherlands. The husband LOVES durians so much that he ate 4 all by himself the first time we sent some over. His poor wife, however, doesn't like the smell, though, and so durian season is really hard on her... 

Hi auntie68,  You have Durian trees in your backyard? Where do you live? I am so jealous!

Why don't you use nets to stop the fruit from smacking the ground or anything in its path?

Hi penang. I live in Singapore; the house with the two durian trees is about 3 minutes -- by car -- from Orchard Road/ Scotts Road. During the days when I used to run for "exercise" (hahaha!), I would hit Scotts Road within 10 minutes (there are shortcuts!). It's a bit unusual to find durian trees in this part of the island!

I've never seen durian nets before, it sounds like a great idea. But they would have to be steel nets, right? And we'd need to be able to lower them easily so that the squirrels don't get at the fruit. My nonagenarian Amah (the lady in my avatar) shields herself with an old cast-iron wok when she goes out to collect the fruit; it's quite a sight! 

Bazza,

Why dont you just listen on Cpod or download it?I never use Itunes, actually ipods drive me nuts...

I found a 柚子 (yòuzi) pomello in the store today! Amazing what you see when you know what your looking for...

A few additional titbits from some of my local sources in big city Beijing:-

-apparently, lots of girls often also view porno movies / DVDs - in a group huddle together in their dorm at University. Some find them very amusing.

- as David said, once a relationship really starts and the girl trusts the boy and he has no other girl friend ( very important here indeed ) , then the girl will generally happily sleep with the boy, and even take the initiative.

- girls in relationships do stay overnight at their boy friend's place from time to time - especially on a friday or saturday night. They tend to tell their parents they are going to a late night party and will stay with a girl friend that night.  

- I see a of young chinese girls going out with young western guys here in Beijing. It is pretty obvious from body language that they are having a close relationship. I used to sudy chinese with a bunch of young western students - the school even had the nickname ' the chicken school' because of the number of young local girls wanting to go out with the young foreign students and practice language skills etc etc.

- Some of the girls though seriously hope that they might find a marriage partner - invariably they are let down and the foreign boyfriend suddenly disappears back home. The expectations are rarely met.

I'm not sure about how bashful the Chinese are when it comes to sex. I've had young Taiwanese students ask me about tops and bottoms in America.  They seemed to know more than I do.

Regarding an earlier Dear Amber: I would echo the caution re buying jia de/fake designer goods in China and then bringing them home. I believe that France has a new law imposing severe penalties on anyone caught at the airport with reproductions of French goods (hermes, vuitton, dior, etc.)--fines and maybe even prosecution. It doesn't matter whether you bought the goods in good faith, were given them as gifts, etc.  If you've got 'em in your possession, you're in trouble.

Amber,

Stick to the fruit topic. It was cute, good photos, and a lot of interesting information.

The moment you start talking and asking a timid male "expert" about sex in China...your credibility (and ChinesePod's for that matter) goes out the window.

In a country of a billion+, what do you think pushed that number up so high? It wasn't great TV programming, that's for sure!

Sex "in China" is alive and kicking in every corner of every small and big city, at every hour of every day...and done by everybody of just about every age, with or without concent.

Sex "in China" is the local, federal, and international currency. Women know that and so do men...with the former having a better grasp of it's purchasing power.

If you're going to "tap" into a topic like this, I suggest you go out and interview anybody, anywhere, anytime...the cab driver, the elevator attendant, the hotel doorman, the college student, the 9 to 5 people, the retail clerk, the construction worker (male or female), the old man at the park, etc.

Then just play their anonymous answers on the air and let us draw our own imperfect and biased conclusions about sex "in China".

I remember at the hotel I stayed in when I was in Shanghai, in the room rules it said you weren't allowed an additional guest to stay overnight in your room and you also weren't allow a prostitute in your room. So I thought that's my plans spoiled then lol.

Onetone- well said. It is very complex. One persons experience, and what he is willing to tell you is not representative. Sex everywhere is the only "real currency". This fact wrote the history books.

This weekend's Wall Street Journal has an article about durians and how a certain variety are selling for $200 a piece in Thailand (see A Stinky, Pricey Delicacy).  It also includes a recipe for durian ice cream - an "acquired taste".

I'm here to say you can eat Durian and drink whiskey afterwards (I would not take them together however).

Singaporean's have this concept of "heaty" foods (I hope I got the Singalish right).

Durian and whisky are both considered "heaty".

I believe the Chinese have a similar concept.  Is the concept from China?  Anybody have the related vocab or point me to the lesson?

Thanks

Here is a short video about 'Betelnut Girls'.

Why are these betel nut girls so scantily clad anyway?

And your Chinese expert made my day with his comment about the Internet! ;-)

Premarital-sex certainly does happen in China, but you don't get the hypocrisy of many western nations where you get people taking chastity pledges only to get pre-maritally pregnant a few years later (i.e. the ones that say premarital sex is bad and they will not do it tend to stick to it). But from my experiences, even with Chinese who are very casual in their approach to sex, they will not talk about it at all, and will be shocked if you do bring it up, which is especially worrying when a lot of them know next to nothing about contraception and safe sex.

Betel nights are apparently addictive, and have a mild stimulant effect. However be warned they are highly acidic and will rot your teeth as well as stain them red giving you a vampire-like look. 

ontone, agree: what's the business model?

Auntie,

Missed your comment earlier in the thread.  Love that neighborhood.  Also used to love to go for long early morning walks over in the Botanical Gardens....used to live on Dalvey in somebody's basement.  Most interesting was seeing Israli Embassy Guards walking the street in 90+F degree, 90+ humidity weather in long rain coats.  Never saw an Uzi but these boys had a certain demeanor.  Funny I never ran into them over at the Top Ten (it can't still exist,can it?). 

Hello Bill. I'm afraid my neighbourhood -- Chancery Lane  -- isn't quite as swish as Dalvey Road. I wish! Top Ten is alive and well:

http://travel.nytimes.com/travel/guides/asia/singapore/attraction-detail.html?vid=1154654660070

Happy weekend!

Auntie,

I used to walk over that way all the time (just checked it on the map..never made across the main streets to your hood). There was a bar off Balmoral and Bukit Timah named the Excalibur (originally on Orchard) or maybe Excaliber II?.

When I lived in Singapore the racing was at Bukit Timah and I was often there for Sat and Sun racing.  On the way home I'd catch a ride to over near your neighborhood, have a few at the bar and walk home from there.

I lived in a converted garage under a place.  I think it was 87 Dalvey.  It was not glamrous, but the grounds and area were nice.  It was between the Israeli (aka the bomb shelter) and (probably former) Chinese Embassy (the pink building) on the opposite side of those two. 

Durians?  "King of Fruits"?  To each their own.  I can eat snails, monkeys, ants, grasshoppers, dogs, horse lungs, whatever... but durians?  I'd rather get hit on the head with one falling out of an exceptionally tall tree than put one in my mouth.  At least that way my misery is fleeting!

BTW, after that somewhat vitrolic post, I thought durian-peace overtures were in order.  So, in the spirit of podcasting about asian fruits, this video demonstrates how to charge your iPod using a durian, a lime and, mysteriously, a cordless screwdriver from citirewards.com!

tvan, that was one brilliant video! Thanks so much. It was my Thai lesson of the day, haven't had so much fun in yonks. Again, thanks.

Auntie68, you're always welcome.  I was actually searching YouTube for a video called durian-haters anonymous, but the above seemed much more apropo.

BILLM, yes, the Chinese have the concept of hot/cold but I am no expert...I am sure some of our Chinese friends can jump in here.

Just got back from 3 weeks in Shanghai and against the advice of my 女朋友, I ate LOTS of 荔枝（Lychee)...I love them and can't get them in US.

You see they are a hot food but I cannot remember what the hot/cold terms are in Chinese medicine. Something huo (hot)...

BTW-I realized that CPOD's new office was two subway stops away and I made it over one Saturday but nobody home :( -the security guy was happy to snap my pic...

I was surprised to learn that there are rules against dating in college... very interesting.  I may have to rethink my goal of returning to college in China (just kidding!)

I take it then there are no such things as proms or homecoming dances in China... is that right? 

i would not consider durian delicious nor disgusting

if you have a problem with strange textured foods however i dont think this fruit is for you because it is kind of like eating mush.

it does however have a strange odor

better chilled

There is a really delicious fruit I had in Beijing, but can't remember what it is called.  It doesn't seem to be any of the fruits mentioned.  It has a brown prickly skin which peels off easily.  Inside, it's a translucent white sweet refreshing fruit.  It looks like the mangosteen inside except the skin is prickly.

On the subject of birth control, our hotel was thoughtful enough to have a box of condoms displayed on our bathroom shelf (non-complimentary of course, just like the bottled water).

@billbag: Chilling a durian does help to keep the "pong" down, but you may never be able to use the fridge again!

A few years ago, I made my own kimchi; the result tasted great but I still find myself asking friends who visit whether they can smell kimchi in my fridge. 

auntie68:  I always thought your avatar was you!  Now everything makes more sense.  You always seemed a bit younger and more active than you avatar suggested. :o)

@penben: heh heh

Great topic!

I was in Ningbo (just below Shanghai) for work 2 weeks ago and tried yangmei for the first time - delicious!

I mentioned to one of my suppliers that I liked them and she took me to pick them in the countryside! What an incredible experience - I was on the side of a big hill surrounded by yang mei bushes. It was really hot though and it wasn't just me having something nice to eat, I got bitten all over by mosquitoes!

I just started listening to the Dear Ambers and it is really fun. 

On the sex situation- I am a college(ish) aged american and have spent fairly significant amounts of time in  a couple Chinese cities- Kunming, Beijing, Qingdao.  My impression is that, at least among upper or upper middle class chinese college students pre-marital sex is fairly common.  Chinese friends that I am close to consistenly give me the impression that having sex in college in big cities is the norm, not the exception. 

Obviously my personal impressions of sex in China could be very different from actual reality, but I suspect this podcast is seriously underestimating the number of sexually active young people in Chinese cities.

Does betel nut really go in the category with the rest of the fruits?  It's certainly not healthy.  It's a vile, vile habit.

One time last year I bought 杨梅 (yángméi) at the airport in Chengdu and took them to my office mates in Shanghai.  They tasted great and I was very popular.  Excellent fruit.  Thanks for the topic.

Betel nut consumption has been associated with increased occurence of oral cancers. See http://www.law.uh.edu/healthlaw/perspectives/HealthPolicy/980908Betel.html for example.

We are fortunate enough to have imported bayberries in Singapore. I saw some at the Chinatown "wet markets" just this sunday, but opted for kilogram bunches of lychees instead...

why don't mention 草莓“strawberry". my favorite fruit.

about sex i agree with etanial.in china, in big citis and colleges pre-marital sex is fairly common.

I am in Beijing currently, interning at the graduate academy of sciences.

My age is 18, and I am tallish (6 ft). I am fairly interested in the girls in my area, but I do not know if approaching them is the right idea.

Truthfully, I would like to have sex during my stay (about 1 month) but I have no idea how to approach a girl in china, nor move on to such a subject.

btw I am an Asian American

I thought for sure when you mentioned Taiwan you'd say something about the lian wu (wax apples). Can you get them on the mainland?

Someone asked about binglang girls and the business -- well that's pretty obvious when you see a stand. Binglang chewers are almost exclusively men, and oftentimes kind of what Americans would call a "dirty old man," so the brightest lights and skimpiest outfits tend to get more business.

After trying durian in Shanghai many years ago, and in China, I later found the best durian that I have ever had.  It is durian from Rayong, Thailand.  They have a reputation for having the best durian in the world, and I agree.  Even a farang like me loved it.

Baz you stayed at the wrong hotel.

Some of my Chinese friends took me to a durian dessert restaurant in Sai Kung in the New Territories near Hong Kong.  Everyone ordered a different durian dessert.  Unfortuately, I didn't enjoy any of them, no matter how they were prepared.  But everyone else loved the place!

I agree with rjberki, there is a lot more sex going on in China than this Dear Amber alluded to.  A typical business dinner may include escorts that are much more than just dinner partners, many married men have "little wives" that they support with apartments and sometimes even children, and then there is that ubiquitous female caller every evening in your hotel room.  More surprising to me is that the married women I know seem to know what is going on, but as long as their husband is discreet and supporting them well, they look the other way.  They all say it is part of the culture.

Just contributing my own experience -- When I was in Jinan last summer, many of our university buddies were extremely shy and reserved in regards to treating the opposite sex. I spoke with several girls and they said they were not allowed to date yet, and they were 20. Even at the clubs we went to, the dancing sometimes even only consisted of jumping around (and I guess.. 'wiggling'? Hehe), no grindy and other such explicit moves. Someone DID in fact mention that "kissing was illegal in public", but on further examination I think he meant that it was against the rules or something. I definitely noticed a lot of hidden couples kissing on park benches once it got pitch dark outside

Also, I definitely noticed a difference in Shanghai. When we went clubbing, the atmosphere was quite a lot more physical and "western" than in the smaller cities further north. Even though the girls were not forward (as far as I could see), they were certainly much more receptive/encouraging. The guys were too, but I think there were also a lot of foreign guys at the clubs as well so that may have been part of it..

Anyway, thanks for this episode! It was something I was secretly wondering for quite some time haha!

I have to say that I think Amber and David here are a little off, at least in Hangzhou, where I live.  I taught English at a university and it was very easy for me to see the students in my classes who were boyfriend and girlfriend. Also, there are several hotels around my university, some with hourly rates.  I think that students here are less conservative then the Chinese youth David described. For many students though, anything gay is still taboo.  

I have to agree with supergood. I teach at a university in Tangshan, Hebei and it is extremely common to see people on benches kissing, sometimes in positions that I would feel embarrassed doing in public as an American. That happens inside and outside the university, but most of all, in the playground right next to the dorms, you can usually see students making out at around dusk. I agree also that it was very easy for me to spot who was girlfriend and boyfriend, and often times people introduced their female friends to me as their girlfriend.

I remember one time talking with a few of my students outside of class and when they were asking me my opinion of the university, I told them that I think it's ridiculous how they make it so difficult to have a dating life. They said that there's plenty of hourly hotels to go to, and that they agree with me but have no way of changing things.

On a side note, I also have a friend here who has girlfriend who was told that sex is similar to childbirth in pain and that oral contraceptives are extremely bad for your health.

Innocent smoothies (a UK based company who make lots of different flavours smoothies with fruits sustainably sourced from all over the world) have just released a new flavour that has yangmei in! 

http://www.innocentdrinks.co.uk/our_drinks/super/yum/

Here are some more that are fairly common to China and other parts of Asia:

Jack Fruit - bo lou mi,  similar to Durian, but even larger, perhaps not as nasty of an odour. 

Rambutan - Hong mao dan, similar to a lychee, but with big red hairs on the outside.

Date - Zao, a few different types. Tend to be light green with brown splotches.

papaya - mu gua,

Dear Amber,

My American friend likes a girl in Taizhou. She will not sleep with him because she says she has a boyfriend. My friend does not believe her because he says all the Chinese girls who do not want to sleep with him say they have boyfriends. My question is this: will my friend's friend let Mr. Right walk right out the door  and marry her imaginary boyfriend because he is young and Chinese? Or is her boyfriend real?

Sleepless in Yiwu

Hi haikeyi

Obviously I am careful in making any judgements about such a situation because I don't really know the circumstances nor do I know the people.

I would, however, say that in a way it doesn't really matter whether she has a boyfriend or not if his aim is to take the relationship to that physical level. Either way, she doesn't seem to want to sleep with him. Why this would be is difficult to judge and probably only she knows the real reason. It can well be that she doesn't have a boyfriend but still doesn't want to sleep with him. For instance the circles in which my (Chinese) wife moved (conservative middle class) viriginity and chastity are considered a big deal.

If your friend is interested in a serious relationship (including marriage some time) he should a) talk to the girl and make sure that that's clear and b) be aware that even then she might not want to take that next step before certain things marriage wise are arranged.If she is interested in your friend in such a way she she will either leave her boyfriend or she might admit that there never was such a boyfriend.

I really don't know in what situation your friend is and what his plans and ideas for the future are.

Although there are stories around of Chinese trying to get married to foreigners just because they (think they) are rich (and there surely are such people around) I know for a fact that there are also many who just take relationships incredibly seriously. For them you either don't have a relationship or you are married. Regardless of nationality of the partner.

Regards

David

I teach at a university in Nanjing thats ranked about 30th in the country academically and there is definately no rule against dating.  I walked into a classroom once with 2 students making out.  And in any poorly lit area of campus on a weekend night there's bound to be a handful of couples going at it.They  even talk about their boyfriends/girlfriends in writing assignments that they hand in to their Chinese teachers.  And I've heard from students that its fairly uncommon for anyone to graduate a virgin.  Maybe I just teach at the sluttiest college in China, but I sincerely doubt its that much different than other big cities.

In my four years in China I talked with a lot of people and held discussions as part of my teaching method and many facts came out. I heard of or knew lots of couples who were living together before marriage. It was so common I began to assume it was the norm for engaged couples and common for others. I gathered that the villages are more conservative.

Kissing in public was actually illegal during the Mao era and the laws were repealed not too many years ago. However, in a university quadrangle in broad daylight, I have seen a couple passionately kissing and embracing and whose hands were where even Americans don't put them in public.

I taught at a High School where to be caught kissing, cuddling or hugging a member of the opposite sex meant instant expulsion, for the students :)

I saw several articles in The China Daily on the subject of the permissibility of relationships for university students incuding one where a student faced expulsion because he enrolled while already married.

It is common for Chinese business people to include a prostitute as part of a business meeting; beginning with dinner, then a trip to a bath house and finishing with 'special' massage. I was offered the same as an enticement to take part in English Corners. I know of two foreigners who accepted. I had a midnight knock on the door of my hotel room on the very first night I was in China!

In contrast to this many Chinese women and perhaps men will not even kiss before marriage.

Very few Chinese people are told anything about sex by their parents. I totally agree with the video on that.

I concluded that China is slowly moving away from the sexual repression of the Maoist era where sex other than for procreation was frowned upon. See Amber's other video on sex to hear a longer historical perspective. The cities and the young are leading the movement towards Western permissiveness, as is usually the case.

Some people choose to respect and practice what their elders practiced, rejecting sex before marriage, and of course they have every right to make that choice and as with all choices this should be respected. I'm thinking about the American with the girlfriend who doesn't want to. He has to respect that.

Whether a relationship continues or not has little to do with sex or love. Three people confided in me (an ex-counsellor) that their or their partner's parents had forbidden their relationship and they had no choice but obey. The reasons were always economic. It is a fact that seems very alien to me that Chinese people's marriages are still dictated strongly by economic factors. This applies from both the male and female side. I am told by the young that this is changing but those people often contradicted their opinion when stating their 'shopping list' for an ideal partner.

I hope this adds to the discussion helpfully.

Thanks for the great discussion.

The pdf for this is blank - anyone else have this problem?

jingsheng76,

There are no pdf's for Dear Amber's .The link is there by mistake.

I didn't read all the previous posts so forgive me if it's already been mentioned...

What about a Dear Amber about Extra-Marital sex... I think it's quite a bit more open than most Western countries. Walking to work, I don't think I can even count how many places one could go...
I was shocked when I went to a Chinese friend's house, had dinner with his family and then, when I was being driven home, was asked whether I wanted to go to the bar and 泡妞 with him. Later, I discovered many of my Chinese friends do this. Talk about culture shock. Though, as hughchina adds, it could be that there marriage is only what their parents wanted. This seems to be true for several friends that I know. 

a1pi2: I love it!

kimiik: Sure, the tomato's a fruit, but so's the cucumber, eggplant (aubergine), zucchini (courgette), bell pepper (capsicum), etc. etc., and there's no strict definition for "vegetable" so the distinction is all rather silly...

Tomatoes can, however, be classed as a 柿子! Which means that using that word (or the English word "persimmon") to refer to that orange fruit is a little bit vague. Last year after three or four attempts at asking the vendors what the fruit were called I finally deciphered "冬柿子" which makes sense as they're in season in the winter. These fruit have a weird, almost numbing aftertaste, I found. I liked them most blended up with some milk into a (really rich) smoothy.

As for the Asian pears, Amber, you can get those in Vancouver all over the place. Of course they're all in the protective styrofoam/paper packaging so you might not see them if you're not looking for them.

I've been told that durian has a very short span of its life during which it is actually tasty... not sure how accurate that is as I never dared go near it. (I wish I'd tried the dragon fruit rash mentions though.)

The fruit that I loved the most while in China was the mangoes... They're smaller and oranger than I'd seen elsewhere, but way cheaper and availabler.

As for the sex stuff... I'm not too surprised to hear about the behaviour rules in universities... In my limited experience they tend to treat students at that age as we would high school (or even elementary school) students in the West. Albeit as a 留学生 I wouldn't have had a firsthand experience but even there teachers expect students to do things like wiping the blackboard. (Um, I'm paying you... Do it yourself!)

I've heard that Chinese sex ed includes such gems as "AIDS is a foreigners' disease." So clearly if you're not dating outside your race then safe sex isn't too important.

What about 山楂 （hawthorn berry)?  My Chinese herbalist in Vancouver told me it is a traditional remedy to lower high cholesterol.

Here in Japan 梨 (pear) is pronounced 'nashi' and 柿 (persimmon) is pronounced 'kaki' which explains why they are sold in some countries mention using these names. Have you noticed how Asian pears are round like apples? In Japan, they refer to the kind of 'pear-shaped' pears we have in the West as 洋梨 'younashi', literally 'Western (actually also means ocean but used to mean Europe) pears'.

As for the story about not drinking alcohol with durian, I heard this in Thailand. My Thai friends said not to drink beer after eating durian as it causes a bad chemical reaction in your stomach. After seeing the 'how to charge your i-pod with a durian and a bit of lime juice' I am not surprised!