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Lesson Introduction
At ChinesePod, we not only care about helping you learn Mandarin, we also want to help your social standing…and, to be honest, herbs in the teeth a cool cat do not make. So, in this podcast, here’s what we can do: teach you how to order those tasty noodles, but without the either loathed or loved cilantro/coriander.
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Zjemi (甄 玫)January 1, 2007
I really don't like cilantro and would love to know how to say it, but is Xiang Cai 香菜the name for cilantro or is it coriander or parsley? Cilantro may be fine for the haute cuisine crowd but it is just not my thing. Is there any way to say coriander and parsley are fine in my La Mian 拉面but please leave out the cilantro? Google language tools gives the same 香菜 for all three.
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Zjemi (甄 玫)January 1, 2007
I should have listened to the dialog first. So cilantro is Chinese parsley and it is the leaves of the coriander plant which had seeds that I know as coriander (or powder or something that goes in Indian food with a lot of other powdered spices). Thank you John for helping those of us with cilantro aversions and thank you Ken and Jenny for humoring us. Now back to the dialog for me.
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ChinesePodJanuary 1, 2007
Supplementary vocab for this lesson: 辣 (là) spicy 不吃 (bù chī) don't eat 我不吃辣。 (Wǒ bù chī là.) I can't eat spicy (food). 放 (fàng) put, add (to food) 不要放辣。 (Bùyào fàng là.) Don't add any hot sauce/hot peppers. 放一点。 (Fàng yī diǎn.) Add a little hot sauce/hot peppers. 多放一点。 (Duō f à ng yī diǎn.) Add a little more hot sauce /hot peppers. 少放一点。 (Shǎo fàng yī diǎn.) Don't add much hot sauce/hot peppers. ~Connie
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jenny zhuJanuary 1, 2007
Zjemi, Thank you for clearing the confusion. 香菜 is really quite pungent. And of course people react to 'pungent' differently. Really a love or hate thing. Speaking of harbs, I've got a bottle of perfume called (and smells like) Lime and Basil. I am addicted to it, but most of my friends think I smell like a salad dressing.
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DeltaJanuary 1, 2007
Not to worry, Jenny; I'm sure many Cpoddies just became vegitarians. ;)
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goulnik (郭力毅)January 1, 2007
Jenny, could you share the name of your savoury perfume, nice present I'd have immediate use for, I'm serious. (I also know cilantro as coriander, sometimes also called Chinese parsley) thx/Yv
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Rich/孟以明 in 天津January 1, 2007
*LOL* Not to laugh at your Jenny, but never heard of perfume that smelled like salad dressing, but a nice smell. Guess I would have to smell it to believe it. -Rich
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Jorge from Buenos AiresJanuary 2, 2007
Hello there! Happy New Year to those you have just celebrated it. As to "coriander" / "cilantro", let me tell you that since I hate coriander/parsley as much as I love parsley, I know the difference. I guess you shouldn't care whether I like cilantro or not, but I do think it is an ghastly, vile weed. I have found this, which might help. The Chinese word were taken from Powerword 2006, the English ones from the Random House, enjoy! 欧芹 (parsley) 胡荽 (cilantro) 芫荽叶 (coriander) coriander . an herb, Coriandrum sativum, of the parsley family, native to Europe, having strong-scented leaves used in cooking and aromatic seeds used as a seasoning and in medicine. Also called Chinese parsley, cilantro. parsley an herb, Pertoselinum crispum, native to the Mediterranean, having either curled leaf clusters (French parsley) or flat compound leaves (Italian parsley), widely cultivated for use in garnishing or seasoning food. Cf. parsley family.
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Jorge from Buenos AiresJanuary 2, 2007
I inverted the Chinese words: this is the correct one. 胡荽 (coriander) 芫荽叶 (cilantro) sorry
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Jorge from Buenos AiresJanuary 2, 2007
More about this vile herb: (I am sorry I was carried away) 欧芹 ōu qín (parsley) (Spanish: perejil) (French: persil) 胡荽 (hǔ suī) (coriander) (Spanish: coriandro) (French: coriandre) 芫荽叶 (yán sui yè) (cilantro) (Spanish: culandro / cilantro) 香菜 = caraway n.: a plant, Carum carvi, of the parsley family, native to Europe, having finely divided leaves and umbels of white or pinkish flowers. (Spanish: alcaravea) (French: cumin des prés) 孜然芹 = cum•in n. (Spanish: comino) a small plant, Cuminum cyminum, of the parsley family, bearing aromatic, seedlike fruit, used in cookery and medicine. Same sources as my first comment.
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jenny zhuJanuary 2, 2007
Goulnik, The perfume is by Jo Malone. The entire range is very organic and made from pure natural scent. Jorge from Buenos Aires, This is the most extensive and impressive analysis of 香菜 ever known to mankind. Thank you!
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FrankJanuary 2, 2007
John Pasden, I love you. And I mean that in a very manly, "I'm going to buy you a beer when I see you next week" kind of way. I hate cilantro. Loathe it. Oddly enough, I've used coriander in its dried, crushed version out of a spice jar and I don't have the same aversion. It's actually quite nice in this chick pea soup I make. Anyway, thanks for pushing this one through in time for my trip! You guys are the best!
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Zjemi (甄 玫)January 2, 2007
Wow, I didn't know so many people shared my cilantro aversion. I thought I was a freak in my organic foods exotic greens community. Maybe Frank has the key to my confusion--if coriander is dried it isn't so awful to me so I didn't know it was cilantro. And Jenny, if you had been wearing that lemon and basil perfume when we visited Chinesepod in November, we would never have left.
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JeffJanuary 2, 2007
Ken/John, I have a suggestion. I recently completed the 7-day free trial, and I found that the most valuable part of the premium features was the expansion section where you list additional sentences using the vocab from the lesson. It is very useful to look at these in both directions, i.e. cover up the English and try to guess, or cover up the Chinese and try to guess. Anyways, my suggestion is this: why not have the same for the grammar bank? Each grammar topic will have it's own "expansion" section with 10 or so sentences using that particular pattern. What do you think? I also think the exercises can be beefed up a little. As of right now, they don't require much mental work - that is, you don't need to make those mental connections, those leaps of faith that are oh so valuable to the learning process. How about a "translate this paragraph into Chinese" or from Chinese into English with an input box below. Then, with a push of a button, you can see the translation. This would require some real thought, and seeing your mistakes would be a great learning tool. Right now it's kind of like taking a true or false test or filling out those useless worksheets that flood the memories of my elementary school experience. I think a LOT can be added to the expansion and exercises to great effect. Keep up the great work, and congratulations on being named to the top ten. An amazing honor, but somehow I'm not surprised. Jeff
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Bazza 白锐January 2, 2007
Just wondering, will Newbie lessons continue until the end of time or will they eventually reach a point were their mass gets too great than it rips a hole in the very fabric of the space-time continuum and collapses in on itself to form a singularity, at which point you'll have no choice but to move up to elementary level? ;)
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Mike in JubeiJanuary 2, 2007
ChinesePod HQ Happy New Year and a very nice lesson, very useful. btw I love cilantro. A question and a request. Question : Is it possible to get a bowl of lamian with just one noodle? Some may think that sounds stupid but if you have seen these noodles being made, if they are not cut one noodle would easily fill a bowl. I was thinking about this because long noodle equates with long life. Yes? Request : Perhaps you could make a CPod video of these noodles being made. It really is interesting to watch and I think quite different from the making of Italian noodles. Here's to a Healthy New Year for all us Poddies ! Mike in Jubei
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WilliamJanuary 2, 2007
cilantro is used a lot in Vietnamese foods, particularly in Pho. I'm Chinese and I don't know too many that uses cilantro in their cookings. anyway, are there any Vietnamesee restaurants in Shanghai?
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AlexJanuary 2, 2007
I skip all the Newbie podcasts nowadays. They are of little value in learning conversational Mandarin because the dialog is too slow and simplified. However, I still pick up the occasional new words from the Supplementary vocab on Web site. The Chinesepod Web site is really good. The best levels are Intermediate or above for learning conversational Mandarin. Hope we get more of these and less of the Newbies. The one new word I learn in this lesson is in English : "Cilantro". Alex
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Al WingateJanuary 2, 2007
Big John. Enjoyed the expansions on Noodles Without Cilantro. What was especially cool for me was the pinion expression on just one of the sentences. Now, I suspect this was inadvertant and I know you folks are busy and don't really expect that to become a regular feature or as they might say Expansion 2.0. However, I would love to find a way to translate Chinese characters into pinyon. If anyone has suggestions on this, please share? Also, I am a dedicated Mac user, so would prefer suggestions which are internet based or software written for the Mac. Hey, guys keep up this very useful feature-mi favorito! Al Wingate
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Cheol-suJanuary 2, 2007
Maybe it was better to not teach this so that the foreigners can experience spicy foods for themselves. But then again I am Korean, we dont have non-spicy foods.
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James TheronJanuary 2, 2007
I also know cilantro mostly from Vietnamese food, not Chinese. Still, this is a good subject. Yes, it's very pungent, but not really spicy and a little goes a very long way. I'll try anything once or twice or even thrice, but after that I know what I like and don't. For now, cilantro is still on my 不要谢谢 list.
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Bob MrotekJanuary 2, 2007
Another useful construction that I came across that is similar to 一点都不要, Yīdiǎn dōu bùyào (I don’t want any) is 一点都不在乎, Yīdiǎn dōu bù zài hū (I don’t give a "darn”).
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Mark T.January 2, 2007
Al, the latest Microsoft Word can annotate Chinese characters with pinyin. It is under Format menu, Asian Layout, if I recall correctly.
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Beth GibsonJanuary 2, 2007
Al Wingate writes; I would love to find a way to translate Chinese characters into pinyon. If anyone has suggestions on this, please share? Also, I am a dedicated Mac user, so would prefer suggestions which are internet based or software written for the Mac. Al, there are two ways to go about this that I know of: One is to go to: http://www.yale.edu/chinesemac/pages/tcim_x4.html The other is to purchase the Wenlin software. It is @$200 US. Go to Wenlin.com for information. I find it invaluable and believe that the staff at CPod use it also, although not, I suspect, for inputting Pinyin. :) It runs on either platform. There is a Google group for ppl who do a lot of Chinese-English, English-Chinese translations etc, and they bring their problems there. I advise you not to post there until you have thoroughly read the Yale site and then still have problems with pinyin. Good luck, Beth
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ScottJanuary 2, 2007
My family has roots in South Texas, so I was taught to enjoy cilantro as a child, as it is an important ingredient in Mexican home-cooking in that area. In Taiwan, it is even used in sweets. Seemed strange to me at first, but it actually quite tasty. On a cart, street vendors take a large block of peanut brittle (hard peanut candy) and use a carpenter's plane to shave a pile of candy powder and chunks onto a very thin rice four crepe. Then they lay on some fresh cilantro and roll it up tightly. Makes a nice snack.
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TrevorJanuary 2, 2007
Maybe steer clear of Brussels sprouts in your Podcasts.
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Andrew MJanuary 2, 2007
Hi Al Wingate I use a program that works on both the Mac and/or the PC becauses it is a Java based program. The program is called DimSum by Erik Peterson. You can find this free download along with many other free programs and macros at Erik Peterson's website at www.mandarintools.com . More precisely it can be downloaded as a .jar file at www.mandarintools.com/download/dimsum.jar . "MacOS You can download the DimSum jar file and save it to your desktop. Then double-click it to start DimSum." In my opinion, this site is a "must see" website for everyone studying chinese. His English-Chinese Dictionary (CEdict) which is also a free download is also very useful. The same dictionary is built-in to his DimSum program. You can also type using pinyin with the tone marks, and Chinese characters as well. A flashcard program, a Chinese name program, and a unit conversion program etc. are all included in this single program. Hope this helps you out. :)
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goulnik (郭力毅)January 2, 2007
thx Jenny. Well, I don't like parley/persil much at least the way I've seen it used, but I love coriander. Incidentally, it's very effective in the middle of a (long) meal, e.g. Chinese banquet to make room for more food... Yv
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WilliamJanuary 3, 2007
Al Wingate & Andrew M I have used dimsum and it's a nice tool. However, I find the following site to be more complete and easier to use. http://hmarty.free.fr/hanzi/
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ChinesePodJanuary 3, 2007
Haha, I'm glad so many of you appreciated the topic of this lesson. Cilantro truly is a vile weed. -John
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AndyJanuary 4, 2007
Perhaps it's a bit late... but isn't 香菜 also used as default word for any fresh herb? Will there be confusion?
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ChinesePodJanuary 4, 2007
Hi Andy, Did you mean 香料 (xiāngliào)? That is the word for spice, or herb. ~amber
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LostinasiaJanuary 7, 2007
Re: Brussels sprouts and cilantro: a few months ago, there was a news story about how some people have a specific genetic difference that really DOES make Brussels sprouts taste disgusting to them. When I heard that story, I wondered if there may be something similar for cilantro. In Vietnam, there were two of us in our group that really didn't like cilantro, and we experimented a bit and discovered some of the others couldn't even tell whether or not a dish contained it. Now, I can understand how people may differ on whether a taste is good or bad, but for me a couple of tiny bits of cilantro will overwhelm the taste of anything else--and I don't see how anyone else could not even notice the taste. (I hardly notice the taste of parsley at all--is that normal?) I would never call cilantro spicy. It's just... I don't know... like nothing else, not even like the coriander that I use quite liberally when cooking. And I remember being HORRIFIED in Taiwan when some appealing looking peanut brittle-ish stuff had cilantro in it! I'm just glad Taiwan doesn't use cilantro in drinks, because it's not uncommon for me to confuse 香菜 (cai4) with 香草 (cao3) (vanilla). That would certainly add something special to the latte.
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JoshuaJanuary 9, 2007
Here in New York (so this might be an American thing), the restaurant workers usually say "mian3" (i.e. avoid) when you don't want something in your order. For example, as I often find myself saying, "mian mogu" = 免蘑菇 = "avoid mushrooms."
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SusanJanuary 12, 2007
Might be doing something stupid, but when I download the mp3 file, it's only 135KB and it's only the intro to the dialogue. No Chinese at all :( Can anyone help?
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ChinesePodJanuary 14, 2007
Hi Susan, You're not doing anything wrong. One of our servers broke down and that might be the reason why you are having a hard time downloading. We are trying to get a fix on it right away. :D -Eileen
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Roujiamo Delivers! | Sinosplice: Life in ChinaJanuary 23, 2007
[...] If you don’t have the fortune of knowing what roujiamo is, check out these photos. If you detest the vile weed as much as I do, you’ll also want to make sure you know how to tell them to hold the cilantro. [...]
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QuestorsFebruary 18, 2007
Cilantro -- A vile weed. I grew up in California on Mexican food but still cannot stand the stuff. It is really the ONLY thing in the world I hate to eat. Some people say it is a genetic/enzyme thing -- that you can't "get used to it" or develop a taste for it like you can to spicy, etc. Anyway, in the US "cilantro" is used to refer to the leaves of the plant and "coriander" to the dried seeds (not dried leaves). They taste quite different. In other English-speaking spots, coriander means both things. Glad you had this lesson. Cilantro was my biggest fear about going to China.
rash says
Seems this could be expanded for any type of food that might be avoided due to ethical / cultural issues or allergies. I appreciate cilantro, but I am vegetarian and sometimes find dishes that are readily made with only vegetables to be in a limited supply. However, it seems using this method one might be able to order a tasty Chinese dish that might include a small amout of meat "不要肉“ {bu yao rou}---(without meat). Is there actually a way to say "without..... x" or "prepare without.... x"? I realize this is a Newbie lesson, but I'd like to learn the most common and clear way to make adjustments to the order if possible.June 5, 2007
amber says
hi Rash, Actually, the term, as simple as it is, is "不要 x" (bù yào "x") or you could also say "不要放 x" (bù yào fàng "x".) There really isn't the "without..... x" 说法 (shuōfǎ) you mention.June 7, 2007
kitty says
These's Chinese Cilantro which is eligible and then there's the Western cilantro which is primarly a garnish plate decoration and not meant to be eaten. Chinese cilantro, or parsley is delicious and great when placed in winter [mothball] soup, and also in zhu [rice gruel[. I love Chinese Cilantro, especially when eaten with Chinese boiled Chicken, or Soy Sauce Chicken meat.June 7, 2007
mouseneb says
This is great! I'm thinking this will be useful for ordering food without any hot peppers/spicy. I can't eat it at all, but it's hard to convince my Chinese friends of this when we are ordering together! I say "不要辣" bu yao la and then they turn to the waitress and tell her "一点可以" yi dian ke yi! Now I can counter with "一点都不要!" yi dian dou bu yao!December 3, 2007
auntie68 says
Cilantro definitely is not for everyone! To me, fresh cilantro -- even a few shreds of it lost in a vat of curry -- smells like... squashed bugs. I am told that my individual enzyme profile (the genetic/enzyme thing) is what makes me perceive those metallic-yet-horribly-funky notes. This Auntie spent her childhood picking little bits of cilantro out of Chinese or Tamil food. And I'm a not fussy eater, otherwise. Roquefort, Munster, kimchi, perilla leaves, asafoetida (sp.?), tapenade, durians, lemongrass, all kinds of tsukemono, venison, raw green chillies -- you name it, and I'll enjoy it. So thank you SO much for this lesson, CPOD...December 3, 2007
sballa says
Can someone be so kind and check if I am saying something right? I would like to order a bowl of noodle soup with vegetables. Wǒ xiǎng diǎn yī wǎn qīngcài lāmiàn tāng. I'm just not sure if I have the order (vegetable-noodle-soup) correct. Cheers, SteveMarch 18, 2008
auntie68 says
Hello sballa. I think that a bowl of noodles with only green vegetables, and none of the usual "fixins", would definitely be considered a special order to most Chinese! You really need an answer from somebody living in China, but this is how we would say it in Singapore, where the Mandarin may have local quirks : If your meaning is: I'd like a bowl of plain noodle soup (汤面; tang1mian4), hold the usual meat/fish/wontons etc, I think you could ask, "请你给我一碗汤面，白的, 不要料“ （qing2 ni3 gei2wo3 yi1wan3 tang1mian4, bai2de, bu2yao4liao4) The "白的“ literally means, "a white one", here the word "white" means "plain". The "料“ is what you call the "fixins" in Chinese, the stuff that has meat or fish in it. If the noodle vendor seems incredulous, you can confirm your wishes by saying, "什么料都不要" (shen2me liao4 dou1 bu2yao4); "Not even a little bit of liao4"), pointing at the child who is the fussy eater. I see young parents doing this all the time here in Singapore! Better to ask for the green vegetables separately, to avoid confusion: "要放一点蔬菜，可以吗？“ (yao4 fang4 yi4dian3 shu1cai4, ke2yi3 ma?"; "Some green vegetables, if that's okay") The following vocab might be useful for you if you have any picky eaters in your family: 一碗白饭 ＝ yi4wan3 bai2fan4 (a bowl of plain rice) 一杯白开水 ＝ yi4bei1 bai2 kai1shui3 (a glass of plain water, previously-boiled for hygiene) sballa, I hope that somebody else will jump in and give a better answer. I have been following your family's preparations for going to China, and I'm so excited for all of you. Oh well, at least this bumps your question to the top of the "Conversations" list...March 18, 2008
amber says
hi sballa, You can say: 我想点一碗青菜汤面。 Wǒ xiǎng diǎn yī wǎn qīngcài tāng miàn.March 18, 2008
sballa says
Thanks Amber. I may indeed use that phrase tonight, as we are heading to Chinatown Express, a "crummy but good" place here in DC. Auntie 68. Thanks for all of that! 白饭 can be an important food for some in the family, although everyone is getting more "adventurous" in their eating (some faster, some slower)! And thanks for helping us, through your language insights, in our preparations (only a few months away now)! SteveMarch 19, 2008
auntie68 says
Dear Steve, I'm sorry I unleashed all that on you! Guess I misunderstood your question; what you wanted was the name of an actual dish ("soup noodles with veggie"), only I didn't know that dish. If there are picky eaters in your family, they have my sympathy. On TV, I see PRC toddlers eating with gusto, shovelling everything in expertly with their own adult-sized chopsticks. In contrast, my Singaporean Stunt Toddler nephew, who has a great set of teeth, is only just emerging from a puzzling "white food" phase. Meaning that he would only eat things like: a bowl of plain white rice; plain white rice swimming in clear broth and (if we're lucky) maybe a few slices of plain white fishballs; Italian spaghettini al dente with nothing but dab of butter, warm crusty foccacia with EVERYTHING scraped off, plain Chinese egg noodles swimming in clear broth (emphasis on "clear"), slices of untoasted white bread (with cream cheese, if we're lucky), the fluffy dough outside part of a "pao" (Chinese pork bun), or two or three hardboiled quail's eggs, eaten dry. This drives us nuts! And I think I have caught hostile glances from fellow diners who probably thought that we were punishing him by withholding food. Sigh...March 19, 2008
auntie68 says
P/s: The Stunt Toddler was actually eating all kinds of things from the moment his teeth came through. Happily. Even food which we thought might be too spicy for him; I distinctly remember watching him enjoy a "curry puff". But then he turned 2-1/2, and suddenly all these RULES started to make themselves known to us. Aarghhh!!!March 19, 2008
sballa says
Auntie68, And who knows how long the rules will last! We have one who has ditched most of the rules, and another who continues to cling to pretty much the exact set of rules you laid out (much to Desi's chagrin!). SteveMarch 19, 2008
auntie68 says
Thanks so much Steve, I feel better already. The "white foods only" rules took us completely by surprise... it's reassuring to know that an American family -- halfway across the world -- knows the rules which I was trying to describe. There were days when we fed him bananas (a "white food", apparently) to keep up his nutrition! Thanks so much...March 19, 2008
tdmick says
Someone above brought up an intersting point regarding allergies. Not sure where else to ask this, but does anyone out there have any experience, advice etc regarding travelling to Beijing and managing food allergies? I am planning to bring business cards with notes on which foods must be avoided to hand to servers in restaurants. Any other suggestions? Will allergies be met with some understanding or will servers just look at us like we are weird?March 19, 2008
tdmick says
As for this topic, I love cilantro, so I will be sure not to use this phrase by mistake :) Thanks again CP, great work as always!March 19, 2008
carlos_in_irvine says
May 13, 2009
Wow, pulled noodles (lāmiàn) indeed!! Very cool.