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Lesson Introduction
“They’re hanging in there with the chopsticks, aren’t they?” –Jerry Seinfeld
Should you be the one that finally caves and simply has to ask for a fork, this one’s for you… quitter. In this podcast, learn to request cutlery in Mandarin Chinese.
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ConnieJanuary 15, 2007
Supplementary vocab for this lesson: 把 (bǎ) measure word for things with handles 一把刀 (yī bǎ dāo) a knife 一把叉子 (yī bǎ chāzi) a fork 一把勺子 (yī bǎ sháozi) a spoon 筷子 (kuàizi) chopsticks 一双筷子 (yī shuāng kuàizi) a pair of chopsticks 碗 (wǎn) bowl 盘子 (pánzi) tray, plate, dish 杯子 (bēizi) cup, glass
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Mike in JubeiJanuary 15, 2007
CPHQ and Newbies The written transcript has the following (Simp) 谢谢。 我们还要刀和勺子。 Xièxie. Wǒmen háiyào dāo hé sháozi. Thank you. We also need knives and spoons. (Trad.)謝謝。我們還要刀和勺子。 Xièxie. Wǒmen háiyào dāo hé sháozi. But the speaker who recited the dialogue three times used : 還需要 háixūyào John's Academic Team can tell us if there is a real difference in meaning Mike in Jubei
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Bob MrotekJanuary 15, 2007
How do you say "Waiter, there is a fly in my soup." ? Could you say: 服务员, 有 苍蝇 在 我的 汤丼. Fúwùyuán, yǒu cāngying zài wǒde tāngjǐng.
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LantianJanuary 15, 2007
WANTS - Hi Mike, you're up early! I still have a conundrum of a time separating out when to use 要 yao, 需要 xu yao, and noth'n at all. In English, if one is trying to be polite, we often replace "I want" with "I'd like", so it's sometimes hard for me to say "我要一把勺子". Instead I go for the alternative expression, "来多一把勺子". I actually think using 'yao' is a little more common and certainly has little of the same English nuance. My mind just interferes. It's the same with xu yao 需要, I mean imagine saying in English "I must have a fork." The waitstaff is likely to think "OKAY, geez if it's THAT important to you!" I still get that feeling when I say "你要担心” You should be careful. I feel like I'm almost scolding the person. I want to just say "你担心" "Be careful/take care", but I know that literal translation from English is wrong so my alternatives are "你要担心啊", "保重” or "好好照顾自己。" I'd say that I am slowly detaching that neural-chemical link between the words-meaning-and emotions for the English and re-jigging it to the Chinese which is way more straightforward!! 我要一碗米饭。拿过来一把勺子。 我需要一瓶可乐。还要一个小碗， 需要干净的，用热水洗了干净的。 快点，快点啊！
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WillJanuary 15, 2007
服务员, 有 苍蝇 在 我的 汤丼. Fúwùyuán, yǒu cāngying zài wǒde tāngjǐng. I would invert it a little, and say: 服务员，汤里有一只苍蝇。 Could be a real problem if you're eating in a dodgy out of the way place. Anywhere, not just China
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ChinesePodJanuary 15, 2007
Mike and Lantian, Sorry about that little slip-up; it was corrected earlier this morning. There is not a big difference between 要 (yào) and 需要 (xūyào) in this context. The difference in Chinese is certainly not the difference we distinguish in our English-speaking minds between "want" and "need." In Chinese, it's actually more polite to ask if the customers 需要 (xūyào) something rather than 要 (yào) something. (To some extent, this makes sense in English as well... doesn't it sound more polite to say, "what do you need?" rather than "what do you want?") To sum up, the order of politeness (whether doing the asking or doing the requesting) is: 1. 需要 (xūyào) - most polite 2. 想要 (xiǎngyào) - not so polite 3. 要 (yào) - not polite (depends a lot on tone of voice whether or not it's actually rude) -John
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ChinesePodJanuary 15, 2007
Dear Newbies, Hey, aren't there any real Newbies out there? Don't be afraid to leave a comment or ask a question... The other commenters may ask hard questions, but they don't bite, I assure you. -John ChinesePod
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GlenJanuary 15, 2007
OK, then I will ask, since I am assured you won't bit a newbie. Instead of asking for a Knife, fork and spoon, is there a way of just asking for all of them in one? Also, jie zhang (pay the bill). My friend told me to say "mai dan". Any difference?
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ChinesePodJanuary 15, 2007
Bob Mrotek, I like Will's translation, with slight modification: 服务员，我的汤里有一只苍蝇。 Fúwùyuán, wǒ de tāng li yǒu yī zhī cāngying. Waiter, there's a fly in my soup. -John
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Mark T.January 15, 2007
I have a slightly off-topic question. I have been translating a neigborhood Chinese restaurant's menu (using Bazza's recommended COCR software) and came across: 什菜义燒 (shícaì yìshāo) "Bar-B-Q Pork with Assorted Vegetables" I thought at first 义 might be a misprinted 叉 (chā) and 叉燒 meaning something like "burned on a fork", which is a pretty good approximation to Bar-B-Q :^) This menu was in traditional characters, but 义 according to my dictionary is simplified and means "righteousness". I googled 义燒 and found plenty of matches, but I guess "righteously burned" has a nice ring to it, too. So what is the correct word for Bar-B-Q? (the restaurant owner is Taiwainese, if that helps).
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TweetieJanuary 15, 2007
Hi there, I'm a real newbie, with just enough knowledge to understand the tone. Thanks for posting the phonetics. It really helps me to pronounce.
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Andrew MJanuary 15, 2007
What's the difference between 匙 chí and 勺 sháo? I can't decide if I should say 汤匙 tāngchí or 勺子 sháozi for spoon. The confounded spoon, ugh.
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GlenJanuary 15, 2007
John, maybe they don't bite, but maybe also not answer ;) Instead of asking for a Knife, fork and spoon, is there a way of just asking for all of them in one? Also, jie zhang (pay the bill). My friend told me to say “mai dan”. Any difference?
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Mike in JubeiJanuary 15, 2007
Hi Guys After listening to the dialogue this morning I had to go into Hsinchu Science Park (Taiwan). As I was waiting in the lobby I looked at the building across the street and on it was a sign : (Trad.) 服務中心 fúwù zhōngxīn (Simp.)服务 中 心 fúwù zhōngxīn Which is Service Center And after lunch I was wondering around an Electronics Store and saw (Trad.) 服務部門 fúwù bùmén (Simp.)服务部门 fúwù bùmén Which is Service Dept. Amazing ! When something new makes sense. Thank You C-Pod So two more "fuwu's" Are these also used in Mainland China? Mike in Jubei
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LantianJanuary 16, 2007
SIGNS - Mike, Isn't it cool when the hanzi just magically appears! I pooh-pah flashcards! I see those kinds of service center signs all over the place...whether there's any real service...well that's a blog topic me thinks. Hey newbies, someone asked about how to ask for the bill, mai dan seems to be the phrase used 98% of the time in my experience so far on the mainland. I'm sure somebody else will get to answering about asking for all the cutlery at once...I don't know except maybe to say: sao zi, dao, dou yao. 勺子，刀， 都要。 But don't copy me as I'm sure you'll sound very weird then! John, Will, Bob: I'm a little curious, is it 'grammatically' incorrect not to insert that subject? I know it sounds weird not to have the "I/my" in there, it seems like it's almost always compulsory in Chinese phrases. The way I think of it is that in my first phrase I always put it in, who the person is, then the following phrases it's kinda up to me. In looking at Will's sentence, I mean it would be obvious the speaker was talking about the soup in front of them, so 'why' put in the 'wo de'? 服务员，(....)汤里有一只苍蝇。 服务员，我的汤里有一只苍蝇。 So once I went out to eat with a group of people, at the end of the meal I noticed that there was a fly next to someone's plate, he said...well he hid it till we finished eating. LOL
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GlenJanuary 16, 2007
Thanks Lantian, I should have known... wo dou yao le... I have done a bit of looking around on this site today, an d it looks like you often help out with these questions. I am sure all appreciate your efforts. Whereabouts in China are you located?
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LantianJanuary 16, 2007
Hi Glen, I'm glad some others are finding some of my comments helpful. To be honest I learn a lot this way, like they say, To really know something is to teach it. Pls do take some of the stuff I say with a grain of salt...I'm often wrong, albeit not on purpose! For those of you not in China, here's a sign that I saw today while eating. If you went thru this lesson, you already know most of the words! 碗勺均已消毒， 请放心使用 wan3 shao2 jun1 yi3 xiao1du2 ， bowl-knife-without exception-already-vanish-virus The cutlery has without exception been disinfected qing3 fang4xin1 shi3yong4 please-release-hear-use-use Please feel at ease using it.
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Chinesisch lernenJanuary 16, 2007
Ich will, ich möchte, ich brauche Liebe alle. Wie sage ich auf Chinesisch am höflichsten, dass ich etwas möchte? Ich habe mittlerweile ein paar Formulierungen gelernt, aber nicht, wie höflich jede jeweils ist. In den Kommentaren zur Newbie-Lektion 菜鸟149 Requesting a Fork hat Gr...
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WilliamJanuary 16, 2007
汤里有一只苍蝇。 I don't understand the use of 只. Here it's used as a measure word? Why isn't it 个? 一个苍蝇? If it must be 只, what else can I use with 只? (as a measure word) Thanks
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Troy CarterJanuary 16, 2007
William, another use of 只 is when talking about pets, maybe all animals? Can someone verify that for me? 一只狗 a dog 一只猫 a cat Troy
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Bazza 白锐January 16, 2007
Just wondering does anyone play around the audio buttons on the sample sentences etc? If you press them multiple times, you get some cool echo effects, you can even play different sentences over each other.
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WillJanuary 16, 2007
只 can be used as a measure word for any small animal (unless it's a long one like a fish, when you should use 条 tiao4). Using 个 won't get you misunderstood, but it won't sound quite right to a Chinese ear. Thus, if you don't mind sounding like a foreigner (given you will probably look like one anyway), don't fret, but correct measure words gets you good brownie points from any native speakers. I was taught a useful combination 刀叉 dao4cha1 'a knife and fork'. So you can say 我（只）能用刀叉吃饭。 wo3 (zhi1) neng2 yong4 dao4cha1 chi1fan4 I can (only) eat with a knife and fork. Or 我需要用刀叉吃饭 wo3 xu1yao4 yong4 dao4cha1 chi1fan4 I need to eat with a knife and fork.
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Bob MrotekJanuary 16, 2007
Wow! This discussion is as good as having another lesson! Thanks Mike and Will and Lantian and John :)
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Mike in JubeiJanuary 16, 2007
Hi Academic Team Two Questions #1 Modifier Confusion From The Expanded Section (Simp.) 我要一个勺子 (Trad.) 我要一個勺子 I want a spoon From Connie Above 一把勺子 (yī bǎ sháozi) a spoon So both (个,個) and (把) are OK? #2 If you need two spoons and two knives. Maybe I asked something like this before but do you say : (Simp.)我们需要 二把勺子和二把刀 (Trad.)我們需要 二把勺子和二把刀 or can you say something like (Simp.)我们需要 二把勺子和刀 (Trad.)我們需要 二把勺子和刀 Or is there a simple way to ask for two sets of something ? In the general case when you want/need a quantity of things and the same number of each do you have to recite the number for each one or is there a simple way to say this. Mike in Jubei
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ChinesePodJanuary 16, 2007
Glen, You could ask for a set of tableware like this: 我要一套餐具。(Wǒ yào yī tào cānjù). However, if you are in a Chinese restaurant, that may result in Chinese utensils. So, if you would like to specifically ask for a set of Western cutlery, you may have to say: 我要一套刀叉勺。(Wǒ yào yī tào dāo chā sháo). The 套 (tào) here means "a set". You could also use the measure word 副 (fù) instead of 套 (tào), they both mean the same thing. Yes, 结账 (jiézhàng) and 买单 (mǎidān) both mean the same thing, but saying 买单 (mǎidān) to get the bill in a restaurant is definitely the most common. ~amber :D
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GlenJanuary 16, 2007
Amber, Thank you very much for that clarification. Your team, including your pod commenters, are very "with it". What good service this site is offering.
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ChinesePodJanuary 16, 2007
Lantian, It's not grammatically incorrect to omit the subject in your example sentence: 服务员，(….)汤里有一只苍蝇。(Fúwùyuán，(….)tāng lǐ yǒu yī zhī cāngying.) 服务员，我的汤里有一只苍蝇。(Fúwùyuán, wǒ de tāng lǐ yǒu yī zhī cāngying.) If you add the 我的 (wǒ de) it's just a little more specific. Will, Both your sentences are good, just be careful about the 只 (zhī /zhǐ)...it has more than one possible pronunciation: when it is a measure word it is first tone, but when used in the context of "only", it is third tone. 我只能用刀叉吃饭。 (Wǒ zhǐ néng yòng dāochā chīfàn.) I can only eat with a knife and fork. It is also common to say: 我只会用刀叉吃饭。 (Wǒ zhǐ huì yòng dāochā chīfàn.) Mike in Jubei, That's right, either 把 (bǎ) or 个(ge) can be used as the measure word for 勺子 (sháozi). For 叉子(chāzi) it is most common to use 把 (bǎ), though 个(ge) is acceptable too; however, for 刀 (dāo) the measure word used is 把 (bǎ), never 个(ge). For your sample sentences, the first one is acceptable, but with one change--when using "2" with a measure word, generally it becomes "两" "liǎng", instead of "二" (èr): 我们需要两把勺子和两把刀 (Wǒmen xūyào liǎng bǎ sháozi hé liǎng bǎ dāo.) But, as far as your second sample sentence, it would not be the correct way to say that. To make it easier, you could also use the following: 我需要两套刀叉勺。(Wǒ xūyào liǎng tào dāo chā sháo). "I need two sets of knives, forks and spoons". Great questions everybody! Never knew cutlery could be such an interesting subject, he he! ;) ~amber :D
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Mike in JubeiJanuary 16, 2007
Thanks Amber Very clear Mike in Jubei
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ChinesePodJanuary 16, 2007
Glen, Sorry I didn't get right back to you after your comment. Fittingly, I ran off to lunch (but didn't request a fork!). Anyway, Amber took care of you. Feel free to ask any other questions, any time... -John
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ChrisJanuary 16, 2007
DEFINITELY........!!!!!!!!!!!!! one of my favorite openers for a story in the world.. "They're hanging in with the chopsticks, aren't they?"... who comes up with this??? haha
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meiguorenJanuary 17, 2007
I wish I had known how to say "small" fork and spoon in Chinese when we were in Hong Kong a few years ago. We were so wanked out by jet lag that everything was very surreal - almost drunk-like although we had not been drinking. My husband and I were having lunch in a restaurant and didn't know how to use any of the Chinese eating implements on the big, round, and fancy table....people were pointing to us and laughing! The waiter apparently realized our implemental ignorance and kindly brought us a couple of gigantic forks and spoons. I felt like a two year old holding onto these things! But hey! We had a great time!
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Global Voices Online » Blog Archive » The Global Voices Show #4January 22, 2007
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The Global Voices Show #4 » ipod nanoJanuary 24, 2007
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BobbieMarch 29, 2007
Hi there Just wondering if there are different words for a Chinese ceramic soup spoon and a Western metal spoon?
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ChinesePodMarch 29, 2007
Hi Bobbie, Good question. There seems to be no distinction between the two types of spoons. 勺子 (sháozi) or 汤匙 (tāngchí) are commonly used and acceptable for both types of spoon. ~amber :D
markt says
dialog-only has the chipmunk problemMay 13, 2007
dancupid says
chipmunk alert !May 18, 2007
eileen says
Hi guys, The dialog-only mp3 is fixedJune 28, 2007
dongni says
I have a question concerning ‘dāo’, ‘chāzi’ and ‘sháozi’. Isn’t the general convention that single syllable nouns have a ‘zi’ appended to the end? Why do ‘fork’ and ‘spoon’ have the ‘zi’ appended to the end but ‘knife’ does not?December 25, 2007
amber says
hi dongni, Actually, in spoken Chinese, you can either have the 子 (zi) on the end or not. 都可以 (Dōu kěyǐ!!) 刀子 (dāozi) 勺子 (sháozi) 叉子 (chāzi)December 25, 2007
arthas86 says
hi, i just wanna ask if the word 'hai2' is interchangeable with the word 'ye3' since both mean 'also' ?January 13, 2008
amber says
hi arthas86, In some cases, 也 (yě) and 还 (hái) are interchangeable, meaning 'also' or 'in addition', i.e.: 他会日语，还会韩语。 Tā huì Rìyǔ, hái huì Hányǔ. He can speak Japanese, and can also speak Korean. 他会日语，也会韩语。 Tā huì Rìyǔ, yě huì Hányǔ. He can speak Japanese, and can also speak Korean. However, in some cases, 还 (hái) carries the meaning of 'still' or 'what else', as in: 你们要包子和饺子，还要别的吗？ Nǐmen yào bāozi hé jiǎozi, háiyào bié de ma？ You want steamed buns and dumplings. Do you want anything else? In this case, you could not use 也 (yě).January 14, 2008