News and Features - Summer at ChinesePod

@rj - software controlled? You're kidding me right?

You need to spend more time in China, my friend.

PS. Oh boy, how I detested all those old jingles. I taught myself how to use a sound editor just so I could get rid of them.

raygo

he he, maybe youre right, so Gulam or somebody pushes the button. The point is the lessons should be ready ahead of time. Order of release is a choice I would hope. If they are running around last minute with installation issues, and thats why they prefer random order, then they need to get their stuff together.

Interesting discussion guys. News and Features has its obvious function. But I also hope it has a community function too. Even though it's not realistic for us to put in hours of work into each News and Features, we do hope it captures some interesting and timely information about what's happening in the community, e.g. through user interviews.

Regarding lesson scheduling, Matt will explain the reason better than me. But please be assured that we have a one month buffer. All the lessons are produced and checked well in advance.

I agree with Henning.I really enjoy News and Features.I don't particularly need to know the lessons coming up as,like paulinurus,I'm going to check them out anyway,but on the other hand I think it works on me a treat like advertising/previews should in that it does get me excited.There is usually at least a couple that particularly pique my interest.This previewing is usually half or less of the podcast,and the other news has always been great to hear.Gives it that personal touch hearing our laoshi's [teachers] voices.Always great to hear interviews too.Maybe I'm wrong,but I couldn't imagine that a standard N&F podcast would take as much planning or time as a lesson podcast.I suppose the ones with interviews would take a bit more [is there a sound equivalent of a Doris Day lens for those of us who need it?...Lina Lamont speaking a little Chinese would need some support..not sport,hehe]

something I don't find back so far. Guys have you forgotten, that N&F is a free podcast for the freebies out there listening in from iTunes. N&F is there for let them see what they are missing. :)

What's this activity management system all about? Will it change the current design and workflow of CPOD?

Hi Poddies!

With regards to the levels on fixed days issue, I understand arguments both for and against. We conducted a sizeable survey, the results showed a majority preference for levels/days to be random.

As for the allocation of resources, despite maintaining as much general transparency as possible, it really is an internal business matter. Suffice to say, we are striving to provide you with the best product possible.

However, in the spirit of transparency, N&F takes about 10 mins planning, 10 mins to record, 20 mins to edit and upload, and the length of the podcast for my QC check, give or take a few minutes. Hardly a dent in our resources, and as Mattiask pointed out, it's a (fun) source of CPod information.

That being said I appreciate you sharing your views and they have been noted. :-)

Regards,

Matt.

Matt,
if that is the survey I am thinking of, it has been done quite a while ago - in wilder and rougher times (and those days I already voted against chaos).

Currently, the surprise factor has (fortunately) already been limited by the fact that we now exactly know what levels to expect during the week. And thanks to N&F we also know the contents. Only the weekday is missing.

(Disclaimer: I am a German who is perfectly matching the old Hofstede results: Risk avoidance to the limit).

CPOD,

Just in case anyone is counting.  I enjoy listening to News and Features.

@henning, Hah, I was about to say the same thing, but was afraid of offending.  However, with @mark playing the classic "whatever works" American stereotype, all we need now is a Japanese poddie to suggest releasing smaller, efficient, more frequent lessons to complete the stereotype.

I don't think you need to complete the lessons in the order released.  You can always (gasp!) study lessons from the prior week.  In fact, I have a feeling from the occasional comment on older lessons that many poddies do exactly this.  However, actively posting poddies (i.e. the ones you see here) prefer to study just-released lessons, since that is when posting is the most active.  That said, I'm with @Mark's "whatever" attitude re: lesson release; and I'm with Henning re: a proper, fixed schedule for News and Features; and I'm with @archtipol in that I would miss N&F if it were discontinued.

Hm, I think we fill the stereotype very nicely by being loathe to vocalize any preferences we may have because in our anxious little minds that could put the nice people at CPod out--in other words we're easily-satisfied customers (as long as the quality stays top-notch!).

Sorry other Japanese poddies for presuming to speak for all.

Before the stereotype is complete, who do we count on to ask for more raunchy content?

Oh and I would like for levels/days NOT to be random.

tvan

you,re with Henning re a fixed schedule for N&F? There is only one N&F. I think you better re-read his post. He is talking about lessons. This was my main point. I too like news and features but if you remember it wasnt always every week. In the interest of more transparency they started every week wilthout fail, but their definition of transparency is evidently what the lessons will be about and promo ads. A little disappointing. Why not tell us about AMS? Whats going to change? What will work differently? What wont change? But keeping N&F is fine.

As for lesson scheduling I dont remember a survey and if it was so lopsided in favor of random lessons then why no comments here preferring this? Most have agreed they prefer them not to be random. And last week I did last weeks lesson and the week before that - you guessed it, so this week I would like to do this weeks, not one from 2006. My main focus is the intermediate lesson and one week I have to wait 10 days between them and the following only 3 or 4. I just thougt it would be nice if they did it in a way that made sense. Not the end of the world if they dont, but common sense I thought. 

RJ, I can certainly see your point.  And you're right, I should have read Henning's post more carefully.  I guess I don't really care about lesson timing, but I could certainly see where someone else might.

tvan

Im not going to lose any sleep over it, but it did strike me as illogical. \V/

take care

tvan,

I'm also one who doesn't really care about lesson timing but can see where others would find it beneficial to plan.I do like the surprise element of the random,but I'm probably showing I'm just a big kid [I like the surprise of not knowing which city we're going to in the city series for example.It's a bit like rocking up to the airport and catching the next plane to anywhere..or doing a pin the tail on the donkey on the world map and heading off to whatever country you pin sans reading up on it...huge fan of The Amazing Race here,hehe] .One other consideration.There may be some out there who can only study on a certain day of the week and only interested in a certain level.In a fixed shedule arrangement,they may find they are never in a position to study it fresh on the day of release,whereas in a random one they may get this opportunity once in a while.Maybe it boils down to whether one is doing this for fun,or for serious academic planned study...like there's an exam in a couple of weeks.

Can I request that CPOD uses my name as one of the characters in a podcast. I feel I could use a some promotion on this website and a lead role in a podcast would suit me just fine.

:-)

xuchen,

hehe,but are you up for any role? 大熊 ？，老王？，一个女人？ 。。。

Random OK with me. Appreciate the personal touch from N&F every week

Random order - more than OK with me:))

Ｉ　ｌｏｖｅ　Ｎ＆Ｆ！！！ I learn a lot from them:))

so!  please, go on!

tage, bendidelaowai,

I hesitate to belabor a very minor thing, but I am curious. When you say random is "ok" with you, do you mean you prefer it, or that a schedule would also be "ok" with you. It seems to me there would be two camps of people, those who care (want a schedule) and those who dont. If you dont care you wouldnt pay attention anyway and a scheduled release would seem just as random to you. If so, the way to make the most people happy would be to create a repeating schedule. Matt may have his own reasons for not doing it this way and that is fine too. Like I said, its a minor thing, it was just a thought, not a major concern.  

and @xuchen

I thought you were in a lesson. Are you not that ninja assassin guy? :-)

I've never cared about lesson order before, and I will not care in the future too, because I listen to ChinesePod every day. It makes no difference for me if it's random or scheduled release, which means that "scheduled" is also OK with me if some people prefer it, as rjberki pointed out.

Like RJ I too don't think it is a major issue,, however for the sake of discussion, let's say Cpod is a learning institution (like a college) conducting five distinct lessons a week, wouldn't it be reasonable for students to expect a schedule for the lessons? I haven't come across any learning institution without a class schedule i.e. any one lesson can come up any day in a week.

Although I try and visit Cpod everyday, there are some days when I am unable to, and it is nice to just be able to plan and put one day aside to tackle the Intermediate lesson.

RJ, Paul

I understand your point of view, I have no personal preference with regards to this - in fact it would save me valuable time if it were ordered - I could just create repeating events (levels) in my CPod planning google calendar.

However the results showed that the majority of respondents preferred 'random' order. This majority is obviously not so vocal in the community.

There are greater priorities at present, but I will send out another simple questionnaire on this issue as soon as time permits.

Regards,

Matt

Changye

Thanks for your honest and considerate answer. Im not so sure I care anymore either. (it could have been something I ate) :-) Im here every day too but I dont finish lessons in one day, I repeat them until the next one comes out. There is always something to do, but sometimes I would like to know whats coming when. On the other hand I couldn't care less if you tell me what any given lesson is going to be about, yet some folks like this very much. To each his own I guess.

Matt

Thanks for taking note.

RJ

paulinurus,

Just for the fun of a debate,your argument:

"let's say Cpod is a learning institution (like a college) conducting five distinct lessons a week, wouldn't it be reasonable for students to expect a schedule for the lessons? I haven't come across any learning institution without a class schedule i.e. any one lesson can come up any day in a week."

...for me argues in favour of keeping it random.One of the great appeals is that CPod is not a college and thus offers us a different approach to our learning.It allows us a much more free from routine [which can become stale and tedious to some]/commitment approach to our learning.We have the ability to learn from the lessons any time of day or night,and on the move.It keeps it more fun and alive and now in my book.If I had a whole semester planned out like a course,it would have more potential to become hohum perhaps.

However while I do have a leaning towards random ,it is not so strong that I would mind if it we were on a schedule,and think it's important that those for whom a schedule is particularly important be taken into account.Perhaps a thought for the survey Matt.Instead of making it a yes/no type question,perhaps it could include a rating out of 10 to factor in strength of feeling about this issue.

e.g. 0 could be strongly desiring to keep it random,5 could be couldn't care less either way,and 10 could be strongly desiring a schedule.I'd probably vote 4 [a slight leaning towards keeping it random].You might find there are plenty of 4's and 10's and that taking this into account that a schedule would amount to the most significant level of Poddie satisfaction.Just a thought.

@Bababardwan Thanks for your input, but I'm going to keep it as a Yes/No question - makes the fence sitters pick a side. Failure to complete survey (silence) usually means one is apathetic and thus does not require change. Regardless of the complexity of the various arguments, it really is a straight forward and simple issue and will be treated as such. :-)

guys,if I may,

for those who want it scheduled ,just wait the end of the week and schedule it yourself. It's not that you miss it, you know. Just wait for all the lessons to come out, and then you can listen to them in whichever order you want.

For those who don't like N&F, how about not listening to it instead of discuss?

it's just my point of view :)

@bababardwan

"One of the great appeals is that CPod is not a college and thus offers us a different approach to our learning.It allows us a much more free from routine"

Many colleges and professional organizations now conduct their courses online, so CPod's approach is not any different in that students can attend to the lessons at any time or day. Of course, Cpod is not a college where one has to pass exams in order to achieve some standard of education or attain a professional designation, however, it does have five levels of Chinese lessons and all that some of us are asking is to have a schedule so that we know the day when a lesson at our level is published and not have to log in everyday. I think it is a pretty reasonable request and certainly not infringing on the enjoyment of poddies who are frequent posters daily not only for learning the language but also for the socialization. 

@Matt,

I agree... it is a very simple yes/no question and thanks for being willing to conduct the survey. 

@cinese

Yes, some can wait till the end of the week, or even wait two weeks or longer before looking at the lessons. It all depends on one's individual approach to learning Chinese. I like to attend to a lesson when it comes out and have discussions on the board while the lesson is still fresh. Then, if I have time, I'll go back and review the older lessons. 

paulinurus,

Yeah,so I've heard.Boy I wish it was that way in my day.I suppose I was referring to the traditional model which I [obviously mistakenly ] thought your comments were kinda referring to.I also thought there may still be some differences,but I'm probably outa touch on this one,so I'm sure you're right.No argument from me though on it being a reasonable request,and as I've said I'd be quite happy for you guys to get it.I completely agree with your comments about attending to a lesson when it comes out and discussing it while it's fresh.Poddies tend to lose interest and move on to the next fresh topic after a while.Cheers and good luck. :)

Might have missed it but has anyone listed a valid study reason for wanting random lesson releases? It's hard to believe that more people prefer random releases than a scheduled one... leading me to think the previous survey question was composed very poorly.

e.g. if i was a newbie, subscribing to newbie only lessons on itunes, wouldn't I want new lessons sent to me at fairly consistent intervals? If I don't get a new lesson for a week, maybe I'll have lost interest because I've waited for too long, or I'm sick of it because I just got 2 newbie lessons in 3 days.

Moloch,

I too am puzzled by the lack of any apparent reasoning, and I share your concern that the original question may have been flawed. I have had to read enough statistical textbooks in my career to know that this is the number one reason why  statistical surveys fail. I would love to hear the question as originally stated but Matt has promised to repeat the survey. This is even better since elapsed time and turnover rate may also have a significant impact on the result. 

RJ,

From web.archive.org.. Nov. 16, 2006, Chinesepod poll was as follows:

Do you like variety in the podcast publication schedule, or would you rather have certain levels published on fixed days?

 I like to be surprised. 
 Please bring ORDER to this chaos! 

I would prefer if they were on regular days. It makes no sense to me to that it is random.

By definition, the universe is random. "Order" is just a word invented by people who desire control. I prefer mystery over certainty, chaos over structure, natural learning over grammar rules, flexibilty over rigidity, spontaneity versus planning and CPOD's  打擦边球 edginess versus the textbook.

So, my answer is "I like to be surprised".

Gosh pchenery, I bet you'd like driving in China then.

sebire, i said i prefer things to be "random", not suicide :)

I should probably let newbie learners speak for themselves, but if I were one (moloch has a good point) I think I would hate not having a regular lesson schedule, would probably find randomness discouraging. This new Pinyin Program should definitely be regularly scheduled.

@pchenery

Just curious, did you learn English in school randomly too, no time tables, and being surprised on what subjects taught each day?  

paulinurus

actually, you raise a valid point, however, I cannot see any distinct advantage with having a known CPOD lesson schedule versus a random one...either would work fine with me, as long as the quality and mix of different levels was consistent 

pchenery

it's a matter on the approach one takes on learning Chinese at Cpod. For me, knowing the day in which the Intermediate lesson is released will allow me to log in on that day instead of logging in frequently looking for the lesson. I find that there is a lot of materials on Cpod and I can get easily distracted by all the lessons and discussions. If I put a bit more priority and focus in my learning and deal with the Intermediate lesson first and then have fun at Cpod with other lessons and discussions, it will help me learn Chinese more efficiently and faster. Learning is different from one person to another. For me, random learning doesn't work. I'll be here at Cpod for years and still won't be able to speak Chinese with my Chinese friends.   

I am with paulinurus - it is a matter of convinience.

I have to take a train each Tuesday morning - a 2 hours ride best filled with Chinese learning.

I get up at 4.15 and download lesson materials (including Expansion and Audio Review) while gulping down two cups of espresso. If the lesson is Intermediate upwards that is OK, otherwise I need to look out for surrogates. Of course, I could "prepare" in advance by having enough material on my notebook. But I always forget that and just hope for a higher level lesson.

pchenery

哈哈

so how would you have voted? I dont think this is really worth any more press, but if I may make one last comment before signing off the issue, I still feel there are two major groups, those who want a schedule, and those who dont really care either way. Both groups are not unhappy when there is a schedule. And why is it that cpod claims to know the majority wants lesson surprise, and yet they continue to preview lesson themes without fail? Because both groups are happy this way. Smart folks. ;-)

A few more words on this apparently trivial matter but with some pondering may not be trivial at all. In fact, such a survey is quite bizzare. "Why did Cpod conduct a survey asking poddies whether they prefer lessons to be released at random or in accordance to a schedule?"

Isn't this a bit strange? If I were a newbie or ele poddie and I'm asked whether I wanted to be surprised with an Advanced or Upper Intermediate or Media lesson, I'll be thinking "Are you serious? What the heck are you asking me this question for? It's quite enough for me now grappling with the ele lessons, why are you asking me whether I want to be surprised with the more difficult lessons. They'll be unpleasant surprises logging in to find new lessons that are beyond my capability."

Yeah, it's quite strange for Cpod to have done the survey asking poddies whether they would like to be surprised with lessons that are either beyond them or below them. Must be those heady, whirl wind days when Cpod just started up, or maybe it was just a 可爱 (one of the most used word in Cpod's lessons) act.    

Haha, can come in here, I am very happy. Did not expect so

many people are now learning Chinese. First of all, self-

introduction, I come from China, called groups. If you do

not know how the local Chinese can come to ask me, I am

happy to help you.

哈哈。很高兴能来这里，想不到现在有这么多人在学习汉语。首先自我介绍，我来自中国，叫 群。假如你汉语不懂的地方可以问我，我很乐意帮助大家。

My view is that there is only an argument for formal scheduling if the student has completed EVERY lesson at their desired level in the archives.  I know many of the commenters above are the "old boys/girls" who have been on CPod well before my time (mid2006), so I suspect they have all "marked as studied" every single lesson at their desired levels, hence are waiting eagerly each week for the new releases. 

However, I suspect there are many more students who have a backlog of several hundred lessons to work through which will keep them busy for some time - hence aren't really in a strong position to argue for a formal new release schedule.

As Ken always used to point out, there is no chronological order that needs to be followed within each level (with the exception of certain of the story lines, e.g. the Wang Wei love triangle back in 07, etc).  From my point of view, the only downside to working through the older lessons is that the comments page is not active - however, due to the great community here, if you do post a comment to an older lesson, frequently somebody is kind enough to respond.

Chris

Chris, CPod likes to (used to, anyway) say "Mandarin on your terms". I guess this would also be in response to Cinese above, but why should other people be dictating to me how I go through the lessons here? I didn't know I was not permitted to go to the latest lessons as long as I have a backlog of unstudied lessons in my level (what if I've skimmed through and decided I don't want to study some of them?), or that people like me should wait until the end of the week to listen to the lessons. That's a little hard to understand. And what do you guys have against a regular schedule? Sorry if this sounds really snippy. I think you can see my point too though.

Sorry zhenlijiang, I didn't mean to imply you needed my permission to go to the latest lessons before clearing the backlog.  Obviously, that's not necessary ;-)  Perhaps a better way of expressing my view is that I'd feel uncomfortable expressing displeasure at the current CPod policy if I still had not got round to studying all the great material that has been uploaded over the last 4 years or so.

Anyway, no offence intended to anyone in the community by my comments above.  On re-reading, they probably do come across as a little sanctimonious (if that's the right word!)

Chris

Chris, again, apologies for the snippiness. I'm not dismissing all the older material in my backlog of course. The point about CPod lessons is that the creators work very hard to keep them current and fresh. So the latest ones are often more relevant than a lesson on the same topic from 2 years ago--that's how fast China is moving and changing, right? So--not that I should have to explain this to anybody, but--to me the newest lessons are always going to be priority study material no matter how long it's taking me to do the older ones. Also I'm the same as Henning. I don't listen to Newbie and Ele lessons so on those days I'm "drawing a blank" (I will then turn to other things, such as my backlog, to study that day). I would prefer to know which days they are going to be because that means my time is going to be spent differently.

I hear you zhenlijiang.  In fact, I've currently just managed to clear my Elem backlog up to the Olympics series of lessons and it does feel somewhat strange studying them around a year too late!  Oh well, I'm sure I'll clear the whole backlog eventually....

take care, chris