Typical Progress?

Hey there! I think you really hit the nail on the head when you said that there is no "typical" progress. Your progress is typical for you. If I tried to do what you're doing, I might get further, I might burn out... who's to say? There is an old Zen saying that I picked up years ago, though... "When you have one eye fixed on your destination, you only have one eye left open to find the way there." You win a battle by inches, not miles. Take the ground you get today. It's further than you were yesterday! Good luck!

When I feel discouraged about my progress, I just take a look at a 5-year-old Chinese kid and remind myself that it took him/her 5 years of full-time immersion to achieve their Chinese language level. And although their speaking and listening is better than mine, I'll bet that I can out-read and out-write most of them after less than a year of study!

zcases, count how many words you actually don't now in the dialogue of a certain level, e.g. Intermediate, UI or Advanced. Track that number over time. Surprisingly you will find there is progress although it does not feel that way. The active part is different, it always lags. Don't worry. My progress is probably even smaller than yours, but as long as there is progress I am happy. Frank: Cool saying. I assimilated it immediately. It also comes in handy when looking for an excuse to pursue a "muddling-through strategy" :P

I think listening comprehension is probably the hardest part of learning the language.

Bazza, I have been studying Mandarin about the same length of time as you but I only discovered Cpod in Aug. Consider yourself blessed. I am still at elementary level but progress is now more rapid. I have studied characters for a little longer than you although that was not my original intent, I found it necessary as a foundation for speech (for me). Of course Listening is the hardest. I have a friend in China that speaks very good english but she tells me her listening comprehension is still only about 80%. I have many friends in China and all of them still have problems when they come here if they try to watch television for example. It is just too fast. The simple fact is it just takes a long time and you need to be exposed. I look forward to the day when I can hear a word and it just means what it means to my brain without any intermediate step of translation. I think you are doing well and I hope to catch you soon. RJ

That's strange, I find listening comprehension, at any speed, heaps easier than producing a simple sentence of my own. Probably because I've done more listening than anything else, and hardly ever had an opportunity to build a sentence to express a thought (and find out whether it's right).

I'm slowly becoming more comfortable with intermediates but I usually need the written dialogues before I can understand it all.

Ive heard it said that it takes 10 years to learn Chinese. 2 years to prepare and 8 years to learn the language. This makes sense to me but I dont know where this came from. Does anyone have a more scientific reference as to avg learning time? Bottom line - I dont care how long it takes. If I know more today than I did yesterday I am doing right and I am that much better off. The future will take care of itself. After all, the only other option is to not learn it at all.

10 years.....I may be on that track. I also look forward to the time when my brain can bypass the "internal translation" and just get the meaning. Oh, I was mistaken in my first post....my listening tests are usually in the mid ele, not mid intermediate. I find reading much easier than listening. I love that "one eye" saying!

I often get discouraged as well, especially when I don't comprehend a dialog that contains vocab I've already learned. Those are the lessons that make me think I'm wasting my time. Like zcases, listening comprehension is the hardest part for me, but every once in a great while I surprise myself and understand something in a lesson that, overall, should be way over my head. I suspect we make more progress than we realize, and in the end, I try to follow Frank's advice and just enjoy the journey.

Zcase, I've had a similar regimen to yours for 5-1/2 years. Well CPod didn't exist for a couple of those, but none-the-less similar. It is hard for me to feel progress, but I think I make some. I wish it were faster, but my other choice is to quit, and I don't want that. BTW, If my counter-part is a little patient, I have gotten to a point where I can converse. Communicating in IM also works fairly well. But, none of that came quickly. And, I still have a lot to learn.

Zcases, Chinese listening comprehension for non-native Chinese is off the charts as an intellectual endeavor ... but a highly rewarding one. In my case its now been six years since I started with Pimsleur Learn Mandarin I during an very long commute. I was so fortunate to discover this site about two months ago and am absolutely ecstatic at my new rate of progress ... I'm now where you are ... plunk in the middle of elementary comprehension level and very proud of it! Easy on yourself man, Chinese mastery is a long road but the journey is so extraordinary. And Congratulations! ... from my vantage point you are doing extremely well. 再见， 何睿林

In my short time on the site, it seems like the question of "typical progress" comes up periodically and, invariably, the answer is that there is no typical progress. I'm no language instructor but, logically, if you're concerned with listening comprehension, there's no solution for practicing with/listening to native speakers at native speeds. I can't describe how, but my own experience is that at some point certain phrases just sink in. There are 48 hours in every day, right?

hey Zcases It's all about perspective...just think about how far you have come and one thing you should never ever do is compare yourself to somebody else. Everybody learns differently and at different rates. It takes many years to learn this language and from what i understand its normal for speaking ability to be ahead of writing....don't give up man! Lean on the rest of us because we are all going through the same thing trying to learn this language...take care. -Adam

I recently watched some Chinese cartoons via UUSee and realized I understood more Mandarin than I had thought. I'm just not quite ready to discuss world politics or differential calculus. Cartoons are great -- not just because of the simple vocab and sentence structure, but because you have a visual context. They are generally pretty redundant (ex: character holds out a box with a ribbon ... "Oh, you have a present for me? Thank you!"). Moreover, you have wide range of voices -- from high-pitched squeaky heroes to gravely-voiced villains. Also, for some curious reason, most of the cartoons I've seen also have Chines subtitles (to provide for varying dialects I suppose). It was a great morale booster.

Aside from cartoons, you can also watch Chinese dramas (and movies), which are usually accompanied by Chinese subtitles. You can rewind as necessary to repeat dialogues. (There's a bunch of English fan-subbed ones on the web). I agree with AuntySue on the speaking part... listening is much easier than producing [entirely grammatically correct] sentences on my own. -sigh-

Although this subject does come up periodically in our conversations, it is really reassuring to know that you are not the only one who is feeling that their progress in this language is slow. One wonderful thing about the Chinesepod community is their encouragement of fellow students. I, too, get frustrated with my slow progress. I, too, have difficulty with listening comprehension. It seems when I do work up the courage to speak, the reply comes back so quickly that I am immediately stopped in my tracks. But I have noticed this. When I review "Newbie" lessons, I understand them without studying. And when I started the intermediate lessons I had about a hundred new vocabulary words per lesson due primarily to expansion exercises. Now I average about 25-30. So I can see small baby steps. Everyone has plateaus in language learning. Same with learning instruments and acquiring other skills. The key is not to give up. Practice, practice, practice. You will have a breakthrough...I'm still waiting for mine!

Zcases -- you might want to have your pronounciation evaluated by an objective third party speaker. Listening comprehension should always be easier than speaking, because by definition, one cannot utter words that one cannot recollect offhand; whereas it is certainly possible for the utterance of the word to trigger remberance of the semantics of a word (i.e. "oh yeah!" moments). Throw in the contextual clues that abound in a given sentence (when you're speaking, contextual clues are non-existent -- each successive zi's prounounciation is utterly (oops, pun!) independent of the previous) , and the odds are absolutely stacked in favor of listening proficiency. The only rational explanation that I can fathom, if indeed you feel listening is your weaker suite, is that you think words are pronounced one way (i.e. when you speak), but is not the way standard PTH speakers enunciate it. It's good that you've decided to take up learning chinese text. I do have a tip for you there -- if your aim is conversational and reading proficiency, don't expend too much energy 'memorizing' how each word is formed, but instead focus on recognizing each complete icon. By a similar argument, reading proficiency should always eclipse that of writing. Once you can read chinese text, you should be able to read aloud sentences much faster that you can using the pinyin equivalent. You'll then be able to practice speaking (reading aloud) at a more rapid clip, which in turn builds the foundation for understanding natively spoken speach at a commensurate cadence.

I've heard the reason that children can learn languages so much faster than adults is that at puberty, among other horrible bodily changes, the brain actually hardens. When a child is learning new things, there are new synaps' forming. But after puberty, those are harder to form?? I am in no way a medical expert, or an expert in much of anything, but just read about this while doing my own research about learning a language. As a side note, my 5 year old can hear a few words out of a Cpod cast and repeat them the first time almost perfectly! Wish you guys had a "kids Cpod cast"!!!

Lately, my 6 year old daughter has been picking up little words here and there. She is now asking with great enthusiasm to go to my tutors with me and learn more formally. I heard somwhere the "language" portion of the brain hardwires itself early in life, most of us are well beyond that stage. So as my daughter gets into it, it will be very interesting to see the progress there. I have seen other youngsters pick up languages quite quickly. A colleague who has been here for about a year has a 10 year old that has learned english very well. Of course the immersion must help.......