Upgrading Old Lessons

John
February 19, 2008, 06:51 AM posted in General Discussion

I'm responsible for the content and academic quality of the lessons at ChinesePod. ChinesePod has been growing and evolving for some time now, and it has made tremendous progress in many areas. For this reason, it is necessary for us to take a critical look at some of the earliest lessons.

The earliest lessons (starting with 0007) are quite different from what we do now. At that time, Ken and Jenny were still coming to grips with the lesson format and the learning method.

For many reasons, I have decided to have Ken and Jenny re-record some of the earliest lessons and remove the old version from the archive. The benefits include:

  • Raising lesson standards across the board.
  • Applying everything we have learned in the past two years to the same lesson content.
  • Eliminating the minor inaccuracies and pronunciation/tonal blunders that plague some of the early lessons (and having only native speakers for the dialogues).
  • Removing references to parts of the site that no longer exist, and making the lesson content more modular (as all lessons are now).

If you love those early lessons (mistakes and all), then please go and download them and save them to your hard drive (re-recordings will use new lesson IDs, not the old lesson IDs). The main disadvantage that I see with removing old lessons is the loss of the comments that accompany the lessons. What we will do is make sure to incorporate the best material from the comments into the new lessons.

Anyway, I hope I have the support of the community on this decision. We have some quality issues with the oldest lessons, and we WILL fix them. But fixing the academic issues is even more important than making sure all audio loads. Many new users start with the oldest lessons, and we want to make sure no matter where they start they get the highest quality ChinesePod lessons.

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AuntySue
February 19, 2008, 07:16 AM

Thank you, long over due. It's easy for me to say that, because I already have all the old ones on my own "those were the days" nostalgia CD, and occasionally relive the moments, laughing and weeping over them between interludes of Cat Stevens, The Seekers, and Scott Joplin.

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darcey
February 19, 2008, 09:31 PM

I've been listening to the older lessons, and I can definitely tell a difference! I'd prefer a slow-down of new Newbie/Elementary lessons (given how many there are) to make sure everything is the same high quality.

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henning
February 19, 2008, 08:04 AM

John, especially needy are some of the very first Intermediates: - You Look Exhausted! - Weather, Man - City Comparison that are only at today's Elementry level (if not below) with a handful of sentences repeated 5 times. Also lessons like - Chinese Celebrity -Bruce Lee - China’s Supergirl that were so much fun when I listened to them first need some compressing. Too much English banter. Nevertheless: Please remind Ken that he promised us to reveal his secret Guanxi-teqnique list one day (in the "Learning About Chinese ’Guan Xi’" lesson). Some here have not forgot even after the lesson has been taken "off air" for almost a year now :) Will this revision go along with the Fixing all fixless lessons project? Hi Xiaohu, I bet none of the currently available Advanced lessons will be affected as they were introduced relatively late and the lesson format is already close to today's (except for the review questions that have been cut dropped recently). That includes all lessons with Le Guan and the Chaplin one.

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mark
February 19, 2008, 08:19 AM

Will this affect the production of new lessons?

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billglover
February 19, 2008, 08:53 AM

John this is a great idea. Aggie and Vera put together a practice schedule for me which included a number of old lessons and I was amazed at the difference in quality. Differences in audio quality aside, the old lessons do have a certain charm in that they often feel more intimate and human. Still, I'll be looking forward to the upgrades. Maybe you could mark the lessons that are going to be targeted for upgrade so that users don't leave additional comments and have a chance to extract any useful information.

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xiaohu
February 19, 2008, 08:56 AM

Henning: 太好了! I loved all those old lessons with Le Guan and (finally found that old lesson in the index), Jeff (or is it Geoff?). I'm glad those will remain intact!

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John
February 19, 2008, 09:12 AM

@henning: Yes, this revision accompanies the project of "Fixing" all "fixless" lessons. We won't re-record supplementary audio if we're re-doing a lesson; we'll just treat the lesson as a new one. And yes, all old lessons are possible targets, but the earliest ones will be the focus of our attention first. @mark: The Newbie re-recordings will count as new Newbie lessons, so the "new lesson count" will have to slow down a bit, but we will continue to create fresh new material. @billgloveruk: It's going to start with lesson 0007 and slowly move upward. Expect quite a few of those lessons 0007-0050 to disappear, only to reappear as a new Newbie lesson. Thanks for the support, everyone!

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AuntySue
February 19, 2008, 10:13 AM

You haven't started already have you? ;-) Someone's complaining that lesson 7 has no exercises (error #1009) and I notice it has no expansion either.

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wei1xiao4
February 19, 2008, 10:15 AM

I know they have to go, but I will miss them, just like Aric and Colleen and Eileen and now Aggie. They are Chinesepod nostalgia. They were the stepping stones to making this program great. They are just like watching the old Saturday Night Lives. You remember where you were when. When will they be...er...done away with?

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tramov
February 19, 2008, 11:11 AM

@AuntySue In my innocence I had stumbled upon great unfolding events. For me all episodes are new -- so I have no emotional attachements yet ;-)

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xiaohu
February 19, 2008, 07:40 AM

John: Nothing could excite me more than upgrading those older lessons and incorporating them into the new format! Now that Chinesepod has hit the 800 lesson mark, there is plenty of content available on the site for those of all levels to keep us busy for months at a time. I have been thinking for a while that the old lessons have been neglected (many of them won't load at all), and it would be wonderful to have all perfect pronunciation, and a standardization of the material. PLUS another great advantage is that it can become the re-debut of those old lessons, making them fresh, exciting and new again! But I'll be sure to keep my old file of the "Chaplin" lesson though, that male co-host (I can't even remember his name right now), that guest-hosted one time was a RIOT! I wholeheartedly support your decision John, I hope other Poddies will do the same.

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dave
February 19, 2008, 03:32 PM

I like this idea a lot but as Mark pointed out--I hope it doesn't negatively affect the quality of your newer stuff. How do you plan to notify people when lessons have been redone?

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sebire
February 19, 2008, 03:34 PM

Actually, I think it's a good idea to upgrade the older lessons. I find that I tend to use more recent lessons, and avoid very early lessons as the difference can be rather marked.

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RJ
February 19, 2008, 04:35 PM

My take so far is that you will re-do and then re-release some old lessons as new lessons, and these will be mixed in with the completely new releases thereby slowing down the pace of actual new material. Is that correct? -RJ

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TaiPan
February 19, 2008, 04:53 PM

Great idea, i look forward to the new and improved old and stale.

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RJ
February 19, 2008, 05:06 PM

Im with TaiPan, not a problem for me. Just like to know whats coming. RJ

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rsmith91
February 19, 2008, 06:17 PM

Brilliant idea - I support you 100%. I never listen to lessons done before 2006, because the quality is so poor compared to the amazing standard of more recent lessons. One thing I though about the old lessons was they were a bit dull and boring, very unlike more recent lessons. Thanks for telling us what you're doing - it's nice to know what's going on. :) Please find some way of telling us which old lessons have been updated, so that I can make sure I listen to them.

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klgardensong
February 19, 2008, 08:29 PM

Just in the past week I've started listening to some of the older lessons, and the difference is quite striking. The quality, flow, and Chinese to English ratio has all improved dramatically. Not having been with Cpod from the beginning, I don't have the nostalgia issues.

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ratatouille
February 19, 2008, 08:48 PM

Should Chinesepod be commended for recycling? Have we gone full circle? Is it perfectionism? Vanity? Is this a recognition that their is a ceiling within the newbie level - do a couple of dozen and jump to elementary so quality is more the focus here than pushing up the numbers? Listening to an older lesson - the differences compared to the newer lessons made them seem newer! Although Ken does meander a little and the unique chemistry that has grown between our two hosts was a little less developed. And the audio was a more "vinyl" just like the golden oldies!

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michele
February 19, 2008, 03:18 PM

It's funny, just yesterday I was listening to some of the very first newbie lessons, and I could not help noticing the remarkable gap between those, and the current quality level, which is always very good indeed, and running long since, up to now. So, yes, I think it is a very good idea renewing all the old material, and I bet it will be a chance for a new interesting discovery. 谢谢! Michele.