<![CDATA[Comments on: An Introduction!]]> 2010-04-16 18:00:00 <![CDATA[By: frank09]]> you guys probably could have condensed the intro to 3-4 minutes and spent the remainder of the time teaching Shanghainese. A bit too much info there, most of which ppl can get off Wikipedia

]]> you guys probably could have condensed the intro to 3-4 minutes and spent the remainder of the time teaching Shanghainese. A bit too much info there, most of which ppl can get off Wikipedia

]]> <![CDATA[By: chanelle77]]> This lesson did not appear in my dashboard and found it accidentally when a user comment appeared in my dashboard. Maybe a note / link about this new lesson / series in the dashboard would bring it to the attention of users (who by default have not a subscription on this channel?) :-) 

]]> This lesson did not appear in my dashboard and found it accidentally when a user comment appeared in my dashboard. Maybe a note / link about this new lesson / series in the dashboard would bring it to the attention of users (who by default have not a subscription on this channel?) :-) 

]]> <![CDATA[By: idesofmarch2010]]> No qingwen this week?

]]> No qingwen this week?

]]> <![CDATA[By: kaixin_in_tampa]]> frank09, welcome to ChinesePod. This is just the intro to the series.

http://blog.chinesepod.com/2010/04/12/侬好-chinesepod-ready-to-launch-shanghainese/

The Wikipedia page on 上海话 has a little too much info for most people, I think a person with a background in linguistics might enjoy it more.

]]> frank09, welcome to ChinesePod. This is just the intro to the series.

http://blog.chinesepod.com/2010/04/12/侬好-chinesepod-ready-to-launch-shanghainese/

The Wikipedia page on 上海话 has a little too much info for most people, I think a person with a background in linguistics might enjoy it more.

]]> <![CDATA[By: idesofmarch2010]]> ...and any plans to post the hanzi/phonetic transcription for the vocab that was mentioned?

]]> ...and any plans to post the hanzi/phonetic transcription for the vocab that was mentioned?

]]> <![CDATA[By: xiaophil]]> Hi Cpod,

I haven't listened to it yet, so perhaps you addressed what I am about to say in the lesson.  Anyway, I notice there is no pdf.  I can understand the challenge here, as Shanghainese surely cannot be expressed with pinyin.  That said, since we are mostly native English speakers here, couldn't you make an approximation using English pronunciation rules?  I know it would not be anything but exact, especially given the extreme variation of pronunciations in English, but it could make a good starting point.

PS: This series is a good idea.  I can't wait to hear this lesson.

]]> Hi Cpod,

I haven't listened to it yet, so perhaps you addressed what I am about to say in the lesson.  Anyway, I notice there is no pdf.  I can understand the challenge here, as Shanghainese surely cannot be expressed with pinyin.  That said, since we are mostly native English speakers here, couldn't you make an approximation using English pronunciation rules?  I know it would not be anything but exact, especially given the extreme variation of pronunciations in English, but it could make a good starting point.

PS: This series is a good idea.  I can't wait to hear this lesson.

]]> <![CDATA[By: go_manly]]> Where is Qingwen???

]]> Where is Qingwen???

]]> <![CDATA[By: sharesindavid]]> there's no pdf because there's no lesson; it's just an introduction.

as far as pronunciation goes, im not sure using "intuitive" english pronunciation rules is actually the best idea. i just checked out the wiki and it seems shanghainese has 3-way voicing contrasts, a couple of front rounded vowels (not to mention nasalized ones), and a bunch of glottal stops. i think IPA is really the only way to go. 

and i thought cantonese was hard! hats off to all of you who tackle this language!

]]> there's no pdf because there's no lesson; it's just an introduction.

as far as pronunciation goes, im not sure using "intuitive" english pronunciation rules is actually the best idea. i just checked out the wiki and it seems shanghainese has 3-way voicing contrasts, a couple of front rounded vowels (not to mention nasalized ones), and a bunch of glottal stops. i think IPA is really the only way to go. 

and i thought cantonese was hard! hats off to all of you who tackle this language!

]]> <![CDATA[By: go_manly]]> To follow on from xiaophil - Catherine stated in her Blog:

"You will find that in our shows we have transcribed the dialogs using this character approximation approach. If you mouse over each word or phrase, where there would normally be pinyin you will find the pronunciation in IPA (International Phonetic Alphabet) as well as the English translation."

Where exactly do we mouseover? I don't see a dialog tab.

]]> To follow on from xiaophil - Catherine stated in her Blog:

"You will find that in our shows we have transcribed the dialogs using this character approximation approach. If you mouse over each word or phrase, where there would normally be pinyin you will find the pronunciation in IPA (International Phonetic Alphabet) as well as the English translation."

Where exactly do we mouseover? I don't see a dialog tab.

]]> <![CDATA[By: xiaophil]]> Yeah, I'm curious about this too. I am very interested in this series, but if I had a choice between Qingwen and learning dialects, Qingwen would definitely win.

]]> Yeah, I'm curious about this too. I am very interested in this series, but if I had a choice between Qingwen and learning dialects, Qingwen would definitely win.

]]> <![CDATA[By: changye]]> It's interesting to know that the pronunciation of “上海” (sang-he) in Shanghainese is very close to that of "상해" (sang-he，上海) in Korean. Actually, the Korean word was also pronounced as something like "sang-hai" until several hundred years ago, and it later changed into "sang-he". I guess the same thing perhaps happened in Shanghainese in the past.

The sound "hai" in putonghua (or other Chinese dialects) is often pronunced as "he" in Shanghainese, such as 来，待，该，改，and 在, and the same is very true for modern Korean, but not for Japanese. More interestingly, this phenomenon is mainly seen only in 吴语 (Shanghainese included), as far as I know. I'd like to know the reason, please someone tell me!

P/S. The sound change "a+i > e" is also seen in other languages. For example, in Japanese, "たいへんだ" (tai-hen-da, 出事儿了！) is sometimes pronounced as "てーへんだ" (te-hen-da).

]]> It's interesting to know that the pronunciation of “上海” (sang-he) in Shanghainese is very close to that of "상해" (sang-he，上海) in Korean. Actually, the Korean word was also pronounced as something like "sang-hai" until several hundred years ago, and it later changed into "sang-he". I guess the same thing perhaps happened in Shanghainese in the past.

The sound "hai" in putonghua (or other Chinese dialects) is often pronunced as "he" in Shanghainese, such as 来，待，该，改，and 在, and the same is very true for modern Korean, but not for Japanese. More interestingly, this phenomenon is mainly seen only in 吴语 (Shanghainese included), as far as I know. I'd like to know the reason, please someone tell me!

P/S. The sound change "a+i > e" is also seen in other languages. For example, in Japanese, "たいへんだ" (tai-hen-da, 出事儿了！) is sometimes pronounced as "てーへんだ" (te-hen-da).

]]> <![CDATA[By: JasonSch]]> No QW this week. It'll be back next Saturday though.

]]> No QW this week. It'll be back next Saturday though.

]]> <![CDATA[By: JasonSch]]> This lesson is just an introduction to the dialect and the series, so there's no dialog or PDF. The following lessons will be very similar to normal ChinesePod lessons in that they'll have a dialog tab and a PDF. The transcription will use both Chinese characters (侬好) and the IPA in the roll-over.

]]> This lesson is just an introduction to the dialect and the series, so there's no dialog or PDF. The following lessons will be very similar to normal ChinesePod lessons in that they'll have a dialog tab and a PDF. The transcription will use both Chinese characters (侬好) and the IPA in the roll-over.

]]> <![CDATA[By: JasonSch]]> Nope, not this week. It'll be back next Saturday though.

]]> Nope, not this week. It'll be back next Saturday though.

]]> <![CDATA[By: JasonSch]]> Not for this lesson. The following lessons in the series will have a dialog, a dialog tab, Chinese character transcription and IPA.

]]> Not for this lesson. The following lessons in the series will have a dialog, a dialog tab, Chinese character transcription and IPA.

]]> <![CDATA[By: xxiallan]]> What about 宁波话，比如 “无是阿国宁”？ Is it similar to Shanghainese?

]]> What about 宁波话，比如 “无是阿国宁”？ Is it similar to Shanghainese?

]]> <![CDATA[By: xiaophil]]> Thanks Jason. That's cool.

]]> Thanks Jason. That's cool.

]]> <![CDATA[By: maktubhelou]]> I'm interested where you get the information on the pronunciation of 상해. How is it known that it was once pronounced "sang-hai?"

]]> I'm interested where you get the information on the pronunciation of 상해. How is it known that it was once pronounced "sang-hai?"

]]> <![CDATA[By: changye]]> Hi maktubhelou

As far as I know, it's an accepted theory. I have a few books on the history of Korean language, and they all say the same thing. If you're interested, I recommend you read a classic book "국어사개설" (History of Korean language) written by 이기문 (Kimoon Lee).

The modern sound of "ㅐ" is "e", but as you can see, the Korean alphabet "ㅐ" was made by combining "ㅏ" (a) and "ㅣ" (i), so it's obvious that "ㅐ" (= ㅏ+ ㅣ) was pronounced as "ai" in the past, at least, when Korean alphabets were invented in the 15th century.

Actually, the sound change from "ai" to "e" happened sometime between the 18th and 19th centuries. The same is very true for "ㅔ" (e), which is believed to have been pronounced as something like "oi" in the past, because it's the combination of "ㅓ" (o) and "ㅣ" (i).

]]> Hi maktubhelou

As far as I know, it's an accepted theory. I have a few books on the history of Korean language, and they all say the same thing. If you're interested, I recommend you read a classic book "국어사개설" (History of Korean language) written by 이기문 (Kimoon Lee).

The modern sound of "ㅐ" is "e", but as you can see, the Korean alphabet "ㅐ" was made by combining "ㅏ" (a) and "ㅣ" (i), so it's obvious that "ㅐ" (= ㅏ+ ㅣ) was pronounced as "ai" in the past, at least, when Korean alphabets were invented in the 15th century.

Actually, the sound change from "ai" to "e" happened sometime between the 18th and 19th centuries. The same is very true for "ㅔ" (e), which is believed to have been pronounced as something like "oi" in the past, because it's the combination of "ㅓ" (o) and "ㅣ" (i).

]]> <![CDATA[By: mikemiller]]> 어, changye님은 한국어 또 어떻게 배우시게 된 건가요?

]]> 어, changye님은 한국어 또 어떻게 배우시게 된 건가요?

]]> <![CDATA[By: changye]]> Hi mikemiller

저는 한자의 역사, 특히 한자독음의 역사에 매우 흥미가 있어, 중국어, 일본어, 그리고 한국어의 역사에 관한 책을 자주 읽습니다. 그 때문에 한국어에 대하는 지식이 필요하게 되어 조금씩 공부하게 되었습니다. 회화는 잘 못하지만 매일 한국어신문기사 몇개를 읽도록 하고 있습니다.

]]> Hi mikemiller

저는 한자의 역사, 특히 한자독음의 역사에 매우 흥미가 있어, 중국어, 일본어, 그리고 한국어의 역사에 관한 책을 자주 읽습니다. 그 때문에 한국어에 대하는 지식이 필요하게 되어 조금씩 공부하게 되었습니다. 회화는 잘 못하지만 매일 한국어신문기사 몇개를 읽도록 하고 있습니다.

]]> <![CDATA[By: mikemiller]]> 대단하십니다!

]]> 대단하십니다!

]]>