Lesson Introduction
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DianaMarch 15, 2006
Great Intermediate lesson on Chinese Tea...it hit all the right buttons for me! Really appreciate the expansion of lexis and the cultural insights too. I\\\'m a fairly recent but already devoted listener & visitor to the website.I just love the new vocabulary practice in different contexts made available there too.Also appreciate the informal chat even if I don\\\'t manage to get it all... some of it sinks in! Thanks again!Diana.
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RobMarch 15, 2006
This is one of my favorite lessons so far. 很有意思的题目,而且 I especially like the sentence pattern emphasis. In a few prior lessons you introduced some "interesting constructions" (除了。。以外, 不仅。。还, etc.), that I found I retained really well in this format and have quickly incorporated into my own speech and writing. I am looking forward to the shift in strategy (lexis?)....好主意!
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DanMarch 15, 2006
Ken/Jenny--Fabulous lesson, perhaps my favorite to date, and not just because I'm a lover of Chinese green tea! The pattern work is extremely helpful--has always been, but great to have more emphasis on it. For me, the prepared conversation is at the perfect level of difficulty, largely familiar but with a fair amount of new vocabulary and many new contexts and useages, and the unrehearsed conversation is, as always, a good challenge to catch more w/ each hearing. Since I live in the U.S., I'm not surrounded by Chinese speakers, so these informal conversations are the perfect chance for me to get a taste of "real" spoken Chinese. As far as the tea-related content is concerned, would be fun to have a followup lesson sometime, including more kinds of tea (both specific names, such as longjing and biluochun, and general types such as wulong, puer, black tea, flower teas), perhaps advice on buying teas--discussion of quality, origin, price. If there's enough interest... I would also welcome an intermediate lesson on traditional Chinese medicine, perhaps including reference to herbal treatments, acupuncture, qigong. Thanks! Dan
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LantianMarch 15, 2006
Wonderful. A homer over center-field! A little something for everyone, the sum stronger than the parts. Nuances at so many levels: academic, fun, conversational, lexical 我也很高兴!
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LantianMarch 15, 2006
My continuing fascination with this co-verb/verb phrase/verb structure. From today's Dialogue Review examples: 李小姐还 (没有) 准备好 (出) 门 王先生 (知道) 买什么 (送给) 老板好 我一般 (去) 茂名路 (泡) 吧。
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babblefrogMarch 15, 2006
Also----how about some smart-sounding things to say when people serve you a cup of tea (like in a tea shop) and ask you how it tastes. I'm always stumped for how to reply other than "weidao hen hao" or something like that. Too bitter, too light, just right, region of origin, etc.--how do you say these kinds of things--and what kind of vocab do Chinese use to discuss the quality of tea? Some possibilities for future lessons....
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Bazza 吴白锐March 16, 2006
Here is a way we can all help stop spam. It's time to fight back. :) http://www.bluesecurity.com/blue-frog
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KenMarch 16, 2006
I've always thought that Bazza had a certain 'batman' quality about him. Good to see him out there fighting spam wherever it rears its ugly head. Bazza, we appreciate your valiant efforts as we all bebefit from them!
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DarylMarch 16, 2006
This lesson was also my favorite intermediate to date. The focus on the patterns was great and I liked the cultural tidbits. I have two Chinese colleagues and we seem to wind up talking about tea, types of tea, medicinal value of tea, taste of tea a lot, so I can use lots of this vocabulary. A lesson featuring some taste words would be great. Another lesson on tea would probably be too much but maybe you could expand into a broader discussion of Chinese aesthetics--e.g., why the Chinese historically have preferred "dan" or blandness ("bland", I know, is not a good translation of "dan", but already it's revealing that English doesn't have a good equivalent of "dan"--bland is usually used as a criticism). Green tea has flavor but I'd say it is more "dan" than coffee--why do many Chinese like "dan" so much? Why doesn't English have a positive equivalent?
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DarylMarch 16, 2006
Oops, I forgot to add that I found a wonderful article on the difficulties of learning Chinese. It is witty, and lays out beautifully the challenges one faces. The piece by David Moser is at http://www.pinyin.info/readings/texts/1991Moser.pdf. He knows the language is hard but he himself still keeps at it--inspiring!
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Robert 罗伯特March 16, 2006
Just wanted to further the comments about how enjoyable & useful this lesson was. Great stuff.
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SandraMarch 16, 2006
I want to fifteenth all of the praise. This was a great lesson. And Daryl's suggestion about tastes, etc is a good idea. One of the things I'd love to be able to discuss with friends is the food we're eating at the moment. And cultural stuff is ALWAYS incredibly useful. Thanks,
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DenisMarch 16, 2006
This lesson was nothing short of wonderful...the level of the vocabulary, the pacing, the word substituion... How can it get any better? These culture related topics are a true delight for those of us who wish to actually converse in a social setting. Again, Thank you for doing this lesson on green tea! Lantian, it looks like it's just you and me trying to piece together a tapescript for the banter on the Great Wall. Is anyone else out there with a sharper pair of ears willing to lend us a hand? Denis
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LantianMarch 16, 2006
Hi Daryl, Are you also Steven? Is someone phishing peoples names. Is the moser pdf some sort of spam/joke thing. If so, definitely not cool. (David aka Lantian) -------Looks reeeally similar------ Oops, I forgot to add that I found a wonderful article on the difficulties of learning Chinese. It is witty, and lays out beautifully the challenges one faces. The piece by David Moser is at //www.pinyin.info/readings/texts/1991Moser.pdf. He knows the language is hard but he himself still keeps at it–inspiring! Comment by Daryl — March 17, 2006 @ 12:53 am ------- BTW, for all who felt this was hard and wonder why Chinese is so difficult, and everyone who is just curious, you should check this out: //www.pinyin.info/readings/texts/1991Moser.pdf Don’t let it discourage you! :-) Comment by Steven — March 16, 2006 @ 1:51 am
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JimmyMarch 16, 2006
Wow! I am a first time listener and I thought that the lesson on tea was great! I've taught English myself and I know it's hard to get a lesson right. You guys did a good job. Thank you to the team that produced this. And I hope that your other lessons are as good as that! Keep up the good work. If I may make one tiny suggestion, I would say that you guy could put less emphasis on translation and have more things explained purely in Chinese - translating perhaps just the keys words and difficult vocabulary. I look forward to other lessons. James
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DarylMarch 16, 2006
Hi David aka Lantian: Nope, I'm not Steven. I noticed Steven's post later today after I had posted my link to Moser's article. I've known about this article "Why Chinese Is So Damn Hard" for some time. I recently corresponded with the author David Moser, and that exchange got me thinking more about his insightful article and led me to post the link. I guess Chinese podcast people move in similar circles!
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EastburyMarch 16, 2006
I'm a teacher, too. These guys can really hold lessons together! I think Ken drives this and makes it look easy. Having spent 10 years in classrooms I can tell you that the guy is one of the best I've ever heard. Like all real teachers he even suggests that Jenny should get all the praise for the lesson! This is the sign of a true teacher - makes a great class look easy, and allows the participants to think it was they who did the work. Passion, skills, knowledge (and a few mistakes) but all the time focusing on the learner and motivating them by deflecting the achievement towards the learner (or in this case, towards Jenny). Bravo! Jenny is the perfect counterpart. I'm hooked.
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jenny zhuMarch 16, 2006
Dear all, You've proven that the fascination with Chinese teas is as deep and wide as the art of Chinese teas itself. A quick update for you: The Chinese Tea Association will release the first annual new teas guide 新茶指南/xin1cha2 zhi3 nan2 in the coming 2 weeks. It is named 'new teas' in the sense of the newness and freshness of teas harvested each year rather than new varieties. From your blistering responses, I think a follow up show featuring this official guide will stir up even more rave reviews. 谢谢大家的厚爱!/xie4 xie4 da4 jia1 de hou4 ai4!/Thank you for your 'thick' love!
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Bazza 吴白锐March 17, 2006
I thought I'd try some green tea so I got some from the supermarket this evening. I got jasmine flavoured green tea, is that a common type in China?
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SandraMarch 17, 2006
Supermarket green tea probably tastes like weak dust, if there is such a thing. Maybe it tastes gray. And then they go and flavor it with jasmine to perfume the dust so you thing you're drinking something. Go to a real Chinese tea store--either online or a brick and mortar store. Get small taster packets of two or three teas--ask for the freshest and greenest-tasting. (Actually, I find high-quality Japanese teas taste greener or grassier than Chinese teas, but that could just be my crazy tastes.) Anyway, tell them you want an intro to unscented green teas and then take it home and brew it in water that hasn't yet boiled (usually about 140 to 165 degrees fahrenheit). And don't cover green tea while it's brewing. Treat it like a fresh green vegetable--son't overbrew it and don't steam it under a lid. For what it's worth...
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Jeff 傑夫March 17, 2006
You guys have inspired me! I just ordered 100 grams of maojian green tea online. 5 pounds... we'll see if it's worth it. I used to drink high quality tea in Taiwan but since I've been in the UK it hasn't been as easy to find. Bazza, Sandra's right -- that jasmine stuff you buy in the supermarket simply does not cut it!
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DanMarch 17, 2006
One of the best sources of high quality Chinese teas in the U.S. is to order from Silk Road Teas. It is run by David Lee Hoffman, who travels to China every year and buys directly from the tea farmers, often from small farms, sampling for the best possible quality. He has been doing it for years, and does it right. Current catalogue lists 3 or 4 dozen green teas alone (including 4 grades of biluochun, and 3 of longjing), and many oolong, black, pu-er, flower teas as well. You get tea that is as fresh as possible in this country, hasn't been sitting on shelves for years. It's often a great pleasure just to open a new bag and sniff! By the way, they don't have a website. If you google it, you might find silkroadtea.com, but that is a different company, confusingly enough. You should call directly (415-488-9017), and ask for a catalogue, or just ask for a recommendation and place an order. They're very friendly, helpful. Most teas are sold by the 1/4 pound, with prices mostly in the $10-40 range (for that 1/4 pound), though a few are much more expensive. Again by the way, if any Chinesepodders live in (or travel to) the Boulder, Colorado area, be sure to visit Dushanbe Teahouse, which serves tea from Silk Road Teas (and wonderful, varied international food, too). The building itself is an experience! If this sounds like an ad for SRT, be assured I'm only a well satisfied customer! Dan
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DanMarch 17, 2006
Correction: Silk Road Teas DOES have a website now! It is silkroadteas.com (note plural of teas!). The website lists a different phone number than I gave above, namely 415-458-8624. Sorry for the out-dated information. Dan
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LanLongMarch 17, 2006
2 small comments on this excellent lesson. I was a little suprised by the translation "Men usually like to drink green tea". I was expecting to hear tong1 chang2 (from the I Like Her Lesson) or what I learned previously (ping2 chang2) for the word usually. Imagine my suprise when I saw neither. Oh no, not another word for usually! It seems as though the translation took some liberties with yi4 ban1 nan2 xing4 dou1 xi3 huan1. I think with the dou1 it really translates to "All men like to drink green tea." Is this correct? Also, from the initial dialog it shounded like she said "Ming tian wo yao qu jie" ... Notice the jie instead of the jian4. Did anyone else hear it like that. I was thinking about these things today and now that I write them down they seem trivial and nitpicky, which is not my intention... more just curiousity. The PodCasts are wonderful! Ken, I am very impressed with your Chinese. Ni3 shuo1 de hen3 hao3.
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Bazza 吴白锐March 17, 2006
Well I didn't really like it. Hopefully the real stuff is nicer.
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SandraMarch 17, 2006
Another exceptional tea store with a strong online presence is Imperial Tea Court (imperialtea.com). They have an incredible depth of teas--reasonably priced to precious and astronomically priced. The Conincidentally, they too are in San Francisco and have two wonderful tea houses with a Taiwanese expertise and an American entrepreneur's sensibility--they're gorgeous. I'm off to check out silkroadteas.com.
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Jeff 傑夫March 18, 2006
LanLong, Yeah... I know what you mean. Why so many words for 'usually'?! ping2chang, chang2chang2, tong1chang2, and now... yi4ban1. I wonder if these are all interchangable. Any ideas? My dictionary gives us another example of yi4ban1 - ni3 xing1qi1tian1 yi4ban1 zen3me guo4? What do you usually do on Sunday? So perhaps the sentence 'yi4 ban1 nan2 xing4 dou1 xi3 huan1 he1 lu4 cha2'' could be translated as 'All men usually like green tea'. The use of 'all' seems redundant in English but I get the feeling that 'dou' is necessary in Chinese when you're making a generalization. I could be wrong...
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DenisMarch 18, 2006
Sandra, Jenny, anyone out there... Your advice on buying tea in a Chinese tea shop seems very sound indeed. I'm sure that 'flavoured' teas are really just for the overseas market and surely the best green tea (logically) has nothing added to cover the (hopefully) fresh taste. I know how to say...this green tea is very fragrant 很香 hen 3 xiang 1....but how would you say...I'd like some green tea with nothing added to it? 我想买最新鲜的绿茶可是不要加.... ??? Any ideas or suggestions? Denis
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LanLongMarch 18, 2006
One other thing I have noticed, regarding the use of "especially" that may be helpful to some. Hopefully someone can confirm this because it is just my observation right now. It seems like you use yóu qí shì before a noun and yóu qí before a verb. i.e. Tāmen yóu qí xi3huān hē chá. (They especially like to drink tea.) Shanghai de tiānqì hěn shūfu, yóu qí shì xiàtiān. (Shanghai's weather is very comfortable, especially in the summer.)
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Bazza 吴白锐March 19, 2006
What about Earl Grey is that common in China? That's probably my favourite tea.
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DenisMarch 19, 2006
Earl Grey is a flavoured tea (bergamote), therefore, unknown to 99% of Chinese people.
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Aric the ProducerMarch 19, 2006
Although "milk tea" is becoming all the rage here...so when you do decide to pay us a visit, Bazza, you can still get your fave. Aric
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SandraMarch 20, 2006
Denis--I'm not entirely sure how you'd say tea with nothing added. Probably the only green tea I like with an added fragrance is a relatively low grade of dragon well with osmanthus blossoms--long2 hua1????( dragon blossom?). Instead of asking for plain green tea or some other locution, I'd just ask for a couple of teas by names--e.g. something like dragon well but not as expensive. Or a nice light everyday drinking tea, not too expensive. Or, perhaps, the tea merchant will give you a tasting of one or two of the teas. And be sure to find out whether you're buying this year's harvest or last year's--they shouldn't be the same price. Hope that helps,
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DenisMarch 21, 2006
Sandra, I'm heading off in a couple of weeks to Chengdu in Sichuan, another region known for their high quality green teas. I'd love to try Dragon Well tea but I'll probably end up buying a local product.... I should think, the fresher the tea, the higher the price. The Chinese say that it's perfectly acceptable to ask to smell the tea...fresh green tea should be 'hen 3 xiang 1' very fragrant. I've been looking through a dictionary trying to find a way to say 'unflavored'....I came across wu 2 wei 4 -- but that means 'tasteless' or 'unpalatable'. In French you would say, 'thé nature' with no negative connotation -- in English I guess we'd say 'plain' for some products. I'm still not sure which adjective in Chinese would be appropriate.
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SandraMarch 21, 2006
Denis--it seems to me that if you mention the name of one or two teas (preferably local if you think you'll like their style--about which I can't comment), the tea merchant will get the idea that you want pure tea. Also, yes, make sure you get a big noseful of aroma or you won't get a big mouthful of flavor. I am far from qualified to be giving advice here, but another thing is to look for pieces or flakes in the leaves. They could be petals or dried fruit or herbs. And flavored tea smells perfumey. (When a tea is described as, say, having the fragrance of apple blossoms (not that I think such a thing exists), the tea isn't strongly perfumed. It's like wine with overtones of, say, apple blossoms (ugh!). The tea (or wine) tastes like tea or wine, but if you have a good imagination, you can make out a hint of a hint of...OK, apple blossoms. Don't fixate on unflavored. If you buy fresh green tea from the source, most or all of it will be unflavored. In my experience, red teas are more frequently flavored (for wai4guo2ren2) than greens. Also, I've found that buying tea at its source is much less expensive than elsewhere, so do try to get at least a little of this year's harvest, which is, supposedly, just around the Qing Ming holiday.
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DenisMarch 23, 2006
Thanks so much for the advice. When I find the name of a good local tea in Sichuan, I'll pass it on. I'll be spending some time in the local chaguan....and maybe I'll stumble onto to something I can begin to acquire a taste for!
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LukeLightningMarch 23, 2006
冻顶乌龙茶是台湾最有名的茶叶. 我去过冻顶茶园; 那里非常漂亮而很香.
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LantianMarch 23, 2006
LukeL, 我想问一下,你去茶厅的时候,比如两个人喝茶,大概化多少钱?在台湾乌龙茶多少钱?
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LukeLightningMarch 24, 2006
Lantian: 我到冻顶茶园因为是学校派我跟同学去, 而且是几年前所以不记得. 其实我不太喜欢乌龙茶; 比较喜欢红茶, 还喜欢咖啡喜欢得多. 可惜没有冻顶乌龙咖啡. 你目前住台湾吗? 我以前住在台湾的台中, 章化, 板桥.
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LantianApril 2, 2006
LL, 啊,我明白了。谢谢啊。现在我不在台湾,我在中国。 也许我可以在本地自己发现一个好茶店。 不过我自己去茶店有点怕,因为哪些茶店似乎很贵。 发怔以后我肯定去看一看。我最爱茶是日本的绿茶。
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LukeLightningApril 3, 2006
In Taiwan sometimes "茶" means just boiled water with nothing in it; when I visited a friend they asked if I wanted any 茶; I said yes, and they gave me some hot water. 茶呢? That's "茶葉茶" literally "tea-leaf tea." I believe that this is a holdover from times of poverty in which people couldn't afford tea leaves and the term 茶 started refering generically to "a drink" and not specifically tea.
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SandraMay 2, 2006
Is Denis still reading Chinesepod comments? I'd love to know how his tea adventure turned out.
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Sara ShaMay 2, 2006
冻顶乌龙是乌龙茶中的极品,全世界只有10棵茶树,每棵树都有自己的名字,年产量极小,所以非常名贵。 dong4 ding3 wu1 long2 shi2 wu1 long2 cha2 zhong1 de ji2 pin3, quan2 shi4 jie4 zhi3 you3 shi2 ke1 cha2 shu4, mei3 ke1 shu4 dou1 you3 zi4 ji3 de ming2 zi, nian2 chan3 liang4 ji2 xiao3, suo3 yi3 fei1 chang2 ming2 gui4. DongDing oolong is the topiest tea among oolongs. There's only ten tea trees of this kind all around the world, and each tea tree has its own name. The year product of DongDing oolong is so low that makes the tea famous and valuable. I don't know tea could equal to hot water. Maybe it is not so widely used. Japanese tea taste different from Chinese tea. My dad could distinguish it, but I don't. I don't drink much tea.
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GarethMay 7, 2006
On looking at the online price list for silkroadteas.com I notice that there is a minimum order requirement of $50. I am a long-time very satisfied customer of Upton Tea (www.uptontea.com). While I have no way of comparing the quality of the two companies' most expensive teas, I can say that Upton Tea's current printed catalog has almost as many Chinese teas as Silk Road as well as hundreds of high quality teas from all over the world (with helpful descriptions). In addition they supply small samples of every tea at around $2 each which is a tremendous bonus for the uncertain customer! They have no minimum purchase requirement and their postage charges are generally lower. Silk Road has a few very expensive Chinese teas that I would love to sample, but it's a bit of a risk if I can't sample the tea first.
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NicolasJune 27, 2006
我最近很忙。你呢?我还好。 can somebody give the meaning of the answer, please ? is it : "me too, I have been busy lately"
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princessAugust 7, 2006
Ni men hao......ni yao he cha ma? Ni yao he so me cha? Wo men yo liang cha.....wo de ming qiao gong chu,, HI every body.....do you want to drink tea? What tea you want to drink? We got one type of that is herb tea....my name is princess.
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LantianAugust 7, 2006
Hi Nicolas, 我最近 (I) recently 很忙。 very busy 你呢? And you? 我还好。I'm okay. A: Recently I've been very busy. How about you? B: I've been doing pretty good. ------------- Hi Princess! jīntiān tài rè , kělè jiù hǎo le。 今天太热,可乐就好了。 Today's too hot, just a coke please!
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Mike in EwshotFebruary 9, 2007
Hopefully some people may find this useful – ie some of the vocabulary from the discussion. I hope it is correct. The majority of the look ups is from the MDBG online dictionary one at http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php. 紧张 jin3 zhang1 nervous / keyed up / intense / tense / strained / in short supply / scarce 讨厌 tao3 yan4 disgusting / troublesome / nasty / to hate (doing something) 学问 xue2 wen4 learning / knowledge 品种 pin3 zhong3 breed / variety 电视台 dian4 shi4 tai2 (n) television station 犹豫 you2 yu4 hesitate 抱怨 bao4 yuan4 complain / grumble 模式 mo2 shi4 mode / method 丰富 feng1 fu4 rich / plentiful 安全 an1 quan2 safe / secure / safety / security 明智 ming2 zhi4 sensible / wise / judicious / sagacious 广告 guang3 gao4 to advertise / a commercial 困难 kun4 nan5 (financial, etc.) difficulty / problem / issue 艰难 jian1 nan2 difficult 明显 ming2 xian3 clear / distinct / obvious 尊重 zun1 zhong4 to value (something) / to esteem / to respect 地域 di4 yu4 area / district / region 危险 wei1 xian3 danger / dangerous 冒险 mao4 xian3 to take a risk / a risk / an adventure 叶子 ye4 zi5 foliage / leaf 发觉 fa1 jue2 find / detect / discover 感同身受 gan3tong2shen1shou4 count as a personal favour 字面 zi4mian4 literal
henrylee says
Dear Mike in Ewshot, I am catching up the lesson at ChinesePod since I began studying thie Feb. Always appreciate your note on the words used during the discussion. Thanks. Henry Lee from KoreaJuly 11, 2007
KennyK says
I love chinese tea :)July 11, 2007
simwang says
有在上海的吗?有喜欢普洱茶的吗?有的话联系我噢~July 28, 2007
azul says
I did appreciate this lesson. Very interesting and useful. A chinese friend offered me different varieties of green tea like bilouchun and longjing and they are really delicious. I was once offered a glass of tea which was like a kind of flower which opened when the water was poured. It tasted like a fine green tea. Anybody can give me information about it ? What is its name ? XiexieOctober 20, 2007
amber says
hi sylvia, There are many different kinds of teas made from flowers. In general, they are called, predictably: 花茶 (huāchá) :)October 21, 2007
jackfrombelgium says
If black tea is "hongcha" how do you order red tea? Green tea is "lucha". Greetings. JackDecember 4, 2007
amber says
hi jackfrombelgium, In China, the black tea is the 红茶 (hóngchá). Connie says they don't have a 'red tea'.December 4, 2007
bazza says
July 22, 2008
Just discovered 'Lapsang Souchong' tea, it's nice.
Wikipedia says it's Chinese name is 正山小种
Is the 'Lapsang Souchong' name from Fukienese?
wolson says
July 22, 2008
The "Expansion" and "Exercise , 3rd Part" are in bad shape for this lesson, probably the result of the recent upgrade to the site.
因为由于肯定这一个新的网际网路网站,"Expansion"和"Exercise , 3rd Part"“很难过,
amber says
July 22, 2008
hi bazza,
My expert in the office tells me that 'Lapsang Souchong' derives from Cantonese.
wolson says
July 23, 2008
Bazza,
Lapsang Souchong is a smoked black tea from the Fujian region that most people either love or hate... there doesn't seem to be a middle ground on this one. Earlier, you mentioned that you like Earl Grey. Again this is another black (although, generally not Chinese,) tea that is again flavored, this time with a citrus oil.
In thinking about your taste for these teas, they may be another one that you would like. In the United States it is called Dragon Tears. However in Chinese it is usually referred to as
茉莉花茶-小龙珠 : mòlì huāchá -Xiǎo Lóngzhū
or Jasmine Dragon Pearl Tea. It is a "花茶" (huāchá) which generally means flower tea. Unlike the black teas above, most people do seem to like this one.
Another tea that people either love or hate (I happen to love it but I like most teas) is 普洱茶,pǔ ěr chá, Pu-erh. I am certain based on your tastes that you would probably love this one as well. This tea, when it is of good quality, has a strong earthy flavor.
Pu-erh's are among the highest price teas in the world and also keep the longest. When I was in Wuhan, I was invited to a meeting of tea specialists where we had a four hour 茶道, chá dào. During this ceremony (I guess that would be the best translation), we sampled a very old Pu-erh that was part of a tea bundled that was carried from Yunnan to Tibet. Its age was about 150 years old and it was still an extremely good tea.
kennethshultz says
June 18, 2009
mmmmmm, great work Jenny and John. I'm looking forward to some ku3cha!