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Lesson Introduction
What do red dresses, red envelopes and endless toasting have in common? Find out here in this lesson all about the culture of Chinese wedding customs. In this podcast, learn in Mandarin Chinese what a traditional Chinese wedding is like, and also what is expected of you--whether you are the guest... or the groom!
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wei1xiao4 says
I have attended a Chinese wedding. The couple had two extravagant weddings. The bride changed gowns 3 times during the reception. They had videos of days' activities when the bridesmaids and groomsmen played all kinds of silly games. It is true that they greeted their guests and took numerous photos as we arrived. I was told that the bride and groom drank a mixture of coke and gingerale which looked like red wine, which they chugged as a toast at each table. The guests were not offered that option. When I commented on how large the wedding was, one of the guests sitting at my table did count the number of tables and commented that this wedding was average sized, but that there would be an even larger one in the grooms hometown, so that was quite respectable. Now I understand the table counting! It was an amazing event for a westerner.May 14, 2007
chinakt says
Hahaha. Where was this lesson two months ago? I was a main participant in a friend's wedding here - I actually stood at the door with them and gave guests candy. In the morning we did this thing where the groom had to answer questions through the door and if got the answer wrong, he had to give us a red envelope. Anyone know what that bit is called?May 14, 2007
alexyzye says
Ah, so 每个星期五，我和同事一起去酒吧喝醒酒。 is how I say "Every Friday, my co-workers and I go to the pub for happy drinks." :)May 14, 2007
alexyzye says
oops typing miskae: I meant 每个星期五，我和同事一起去酒吧喝 喜酒。May 14, 2007
gayrick says
I was one of my friend's 兄弟們 for his wedding, and I got to ride in the black Mercedes with the bamboo pole tied to the car and the raw pork tied to the pole. We got to throw firecrackers out the sunroof when we rolled up to the bride's hotel on the wedding day. Good times.May 14, 2007
huomao says
Ahhhh!! you've done it again! just attended a wedding two days ago and was thinking, whilst sitting there observing all the customs, 'I bet there is a chinese pod lesson on this in two days'. The frequency of these occurrances can not be just coincidence, can it?May 14, 2007
aaron says
thank you so much for this lesson! I've been waiting for this for so long! I have to attend a wedding in less than two weeks, so now I'll know what it's all about :DMay 14, 2007
gaylon says
闹洞房 也是另外个中国婚礼习俗。 非常有意思！不过，老实说，我个人还没参加这个“闹洞房”的风俗。 听说，是和新婚夫妇逗， 玩儿，等等。Chinesepod, 你们可不可以给我们阐述一下“闹洞房”究竟包含什么内容？ There is another custom called "Nao4dong4fang2" （闹洞房）that's supposed to be a funny experience. It generally takes place after the wedding...like that same night, and friends come over and make the bride and groom do some silly things. I've never participated (yet) but I it sounds pretty funny. Perhaps Chinesepod can elaborate a bit for us :)May 14, 2007
darylk says
Great lesson. I went to a Chinese wedding in HK and observed to a fellow guest that it was too bad that there were so many "no shows." She said, "What do you mean? The other guests are in another room playing mahjong until the newlyweds arrive."May 14, 2007
usr1 says
Sorry, it's impossible for me to follow Jennys banter. Elementary lessons are too easy, Intermediate much too hard. Why does Jenny speak even faster than in the dialogue itself and with totally unknown words (according to this level)? Why do you make it so hard to get on this level? Do you offer full transcripts? Q to other learners: How do you cope with this situation?May 14, 2007
trevelyan says
@usr1 - any particular parts you're having trouble with?May 15, 2007
lvbin says
for me at least, i've found that that there are no easy shortcuts to getting to the next level of chinese. the more you listen to native chinese speakers speaking at a normal pace, the more your ears will get used to it, so keep listening to those podcasts, even if you don't get everything. Another obstacle may be the number of vocabulary words you know. For this I suggest using flashcards or any other similar method. Just find some chinese comics (like doraemon) or something you find interesting and add every unfamiliar word you come across to your list. it might seem like you're adding every word on the page at first but if you keep persisting eventually your vocabulary will be wide enough for you to understand chinese banter. just a suggestion.May 15, 2007
john says
huomao, You're right. It cannot be coincidence. MUAHAHAHA...May 15, 2007
john says
gaylon, Yup, 闹洞房 (nào dòngfáng) is in the vocab for this lesson. Let's see... Last time I saw it, they made the bride and groom get in bed, under the covers, and strip, throwing their clothes out for everyone to see. Then the guests would playfully try to pull the cover away. (People were taking pictures as well, of course.)May 15, 2007
john says
We have been over and over the whole "gap" issue. It's true that Jenny does speak rather quickly in some of the intermediate lessons. This is not an example of an easy intermediate lesson. We are still working on creating easier Intermediate lessons as well as more challenging Elementary lessons to help close the gap. As I've mentioned before, you have to put in a lot more time to get from Elementary to Intermediate than you do to get from Newbie to Elementary. That probably contributes to the frustration as well. Thanks for the tips, lvbin!May 15, 2007
omc11 says
usr 1, try the early intermediate lessons, they are much easier!May 15, 2007
hanyuxuesheng says
@ John, would it be possible to recommend some easier Intermediate lessons, which are suited for Intermediate beginners. Thanks in advance.May 15, 2007
alexyzye says
照片里的新郎看来有一点醉了，而且他的新娘好像感到很尴尬。挺好笑的照片。May 15, 2007
AuntySue says
I don't get it. I know I'm still working at newbie level and I don't know what it's like for you guys, but it makes no sense to me at all. You have the dialogue to listen to. You have the transcript, including pinyin and English, so you can follow along, even I can follow along and know what it's about, find a few new words and constructions to use. John explains the cultural context, in English. John explains the grammar, in English. John goes slowly and methodically through the key vocabulary, in English, with Jenny pronouncing the words. John gives a translated summary of everything Jenny says that's related to the learning, plus enough to understand any jokes, again, in English. What makes me understand this whole thing as a complete and fully explained lesson that I can learn from, when you guys can't?May 15, 2007
alexyzye says
Is it common to abbreviate "from 300 to 500" to 三五百 ? Normally I would write 三百到五百.May 15, 2007
alwingate says
The bridge between elementary and intermediate is non-existent. I don't know that there is a continuum of objectives which lead to this level. Perhaps those who find these lessons useful are one's who were at the level to begin with. Intermediate hasn't really been defined. A couple of things I find troubling is no pinyin for expansion sentences and no program to teach the chinese symbols. Perhaps this has been addressed in the past, and I may have missed it. But, to me the continuum of skills breaks down here. I am perfectly happy with the Newbie and Elementary lessons where I am enjoying the learning. And, by the way, this is a great object lesson for all teachers of languages. There must be a strategy for success. Getting stuck at this point, makes it imperative for the user to get the necessary help to make the leap. Now, it is possible, that this level is beyond my linguistic abilities. Though, I am an intermediate Spanish speak, learned through high school classes and much self talk, this doesn't compare to the difficulty level here. On the other hand, we who are perhaps linguistically challenged at this level must realize that others who are father along need to be challenged as well to feel and be successful. However, John, by saying that this issued has been revisited before does not mean the issue has been resolved. So, this is my opinion based on very little or entirely no facts and I could be way off base. However, I do have many years in the field of education and I know one thing: If the student does not feel successful, the student will probably drop out, either literally or give up in a spiritual way. On a lighter note the Newbie and Elementary lessons are excellent. They are to me a model of learning which is state of the art. Enough said: Love you Chinese Pod.May 15, 2007
alwingate says
One more thing: Thank God for version three where you can block a user mindless patter.May 15, 2007
jennyzhu says
You guys are attending a lot of weddings judging by the comments. I've noticed a rather mortifying new development at Chinese wedding banquets. The 新人/xin1 ren2/newly weds get on stage and sing a duet. Just one more form of public humiliation.May 15, 2007
jennyzhu says
I do apologize for the speed of my speech and the occasional hard words if they caused any issue. I can get a bit carried away with certain topics.May 15, 2007
darylk says
Apropos of Chinese culture: Today I read 2 interesting stories about China. One centers on the so-called "gold farmers" who earn virtual points that they then sell for real currency. Would make a good Intermediate lesson. You can read more about this cultural phenomenon at http://www.chinesegoldfarmers.com/ The other concerns Tao Tao, the Chinese koala who gave birth in Beijing to a rare set of twins. For some reason, the little ones only have English names--not Chinese names. There must be a story behind that naming--would make a good Elementary lesson.May 15, 2007
RonInDC says
Hey, great lesson! Also timely for me. Anyway, seems you left the vocab list short? Bride, groom, best man, etc.May 15, 2007
Lantian says
PAUSE - The Cpod vocab test placed me at low-intermediate. I think it's an accurate reflection of my vocabulary base in terms of an academic sampling. But I also think that in terms of conversational and colloquial Chinese I probably am at a somewhat higher level, I listen to a lot of Chinese media. I bring this up because I don't want people accusing me of being advanced, and I absolutely DO NOT THINK Jenny spoke particularly fast in this podcast. How much slower do people want her to say 'dui' and 'shi de'? Get over it people, she's speaking at normal speed, if not at times over enunciating. Are listeners confusing "not understanding" with speaking fast? I do not think Jenny was speaking particularly fast at all in this podcast, but there are parts where I don't understand her, but that's MY vocabulary problem, nothing to do with her speed. The day will come when the same people will wish Chinese speakers speak normal, rather than on hearing one's 'accent' or the occasional wrong grammar start talking to you like you're two years old. I agree with all the recommendations already posted on 'what to do', plus I'd say listen to the podcasts a few times over a medium-length period of time. The other podcasts introduce meticulously a lot of colloquial Chinese. If you stick with them, I'm sure these intermediates will begin to 'slow down'. I don't want to dismiss or deny that someone else may have had frustrations or that to their ear things sounded fast, but for me I definitely don't want Jenny to start talking artificially slow at this level. There's plenty of slowed-down Chinese in the Newbie and Elementary levels. Lastly, again in my opinion, Jenny was not speaking anything more than normal-speed Chinese, however, the overall lesson is harder because it has a lot of 'marriage vocabulary' and for me I avoid that kind of vocabulary as much as possible!!!May 15, 2007
LeiGaoRui says
I have to agree with Lantian. This is a gradual process, spoken Chinese is very difficult to understand in the beginning. Jenny and John do an AMAZING job in making it as manageable as possible. First, Jenny speaks more clearly than many speakers I encounter (the fact that her English is so shockingly flawless is a bit discouraging - maybe Jenny could make at least one horrible English error every podcast on purpose to boost our confidence about Chinese? : ) ) and John doe a great job breaking it down point by point. As I say, it is a process. 4-5 months ago, I understood nothing of what Jenny said, now I can understand about 90% of the intermediate lessons and about 65-70% of the upper intermediate stuff. Yes, it is frustrating when you don't understand but it is also very encouraging when you reach a new milestone. Particularly in the intermediate lessons, there is very little meaty material which Jenny says which John does not somehow gloss or make reference to. Listen to his verbal queues carefully. Also, after you listen to numerous podcasts, you will see Jenny uses many formulations many times and yes, there are some surprises thrown in. So then you can go to one of several websites that offer premium/(in the past) free transcripts of the dialogues or even better, get a Chinese friend to go through a podcast with you. There is another video series which I use but it is hanzi only and the people speak very quickly, so I run through it with my Chinese teacher and eventually I get it. Remember: Chinese has some special challenges which French or Spanish do not have. It takes time to understand what people say. I find it discouraging how I can TALK about all sorts of issues like, "Acupuncture can help digestion" but then not always understand even simple questions like, "Did you drive here today..". It is just a question of time and persistence. I was an absolute beginner a year ago and now am probably upper intermediate.May 15, 2007
usr1 says
Thanks for all the feedback. I will now concentrate on the older Intermediate podcasts and use the full transcripts from http://goulnik.com/chinese/chinesepod/full.php?f=full-CMay 15, 2007
henning says
Lantian, I second what you are saying, exept for one thing: you are definately higher than "low-intermediate". The best proof is that you are able to "listen to a lot of Chinese media". The CPod test can be misleading. I always understand everything that program spits out. Why? Because I remember all the lines from the podcasts.May 15, 2007
man2toe says
嘿,我為什麼不能找到Lantian提到的詞彙評估(考試?)呢?藍天,海寧能幫忙一下?May 15, 2007
Andy says
Great lesson, I loved it immensely. Is 白頭偕老 as common as saying 百年好合? Interesting, but in the PRC the table is only 10 ppl. In Hong Kong, the table size is 14 ppl and in the States the table size is 12 ppl. What I find interesting is most classroom courses, the jump from elementary to intermediate is just as drastic. It's the difference from asking "where is the bus stop" to talking about how "bus emmissions burdens the society and and environment". It seems alsmost if in elementary mode, the grammar is so basic and simple you can't do much with it. but then there is seemingly no lower imediate point and the grammar suddenly intensifies to the point where you can use it to become expressive and use it in creative literary ways. If Cpod could bridge that gap, I think that would be revolutionary. Anyways, I think the banter is actually more entertaining and more educational than the dialogue. The dialogues are scripted and always seem a bit strange to me..... the media lessons are the best IMHO. just straight talk and some explanation of key phrases and words.May 15, 2007
alwingate says
Well, Lantian, I would say this as to pace. First of all I accuse you of nothing. But, the point: "People speak at a different pace in all languages." So, whether or not she is speaking at "normal" pace, I do not know. But, I upon reflection, I would say that her pace varies depending on the nature of the dialogue or perhaps whether she has that second cup of coffee in the morning. But, with all due respect, you cannot really accurately arbitrate was is the normal of speech. Henry Kissinger, considered a very bright man in most circles spoke at an excruciating slow pace. Would that be normal? On the other hand, I understand the need for more advanced students to hear Mandarin spoken as close to "street speed" for lack of a better term. However, I think it is unecessary for people to dig at each other over a difference of opinion. I am NOT saying this regarding you of course. From my viewpoint your observations have always been considered and helpful ones.May 15, 2007
wei1xiao4 says
Just a tip for low intermediate users. The early intermediate lessons were originally almost totally in Chinese and I found them difficult to understand. At some point, John and Jenny changed how they presented the material with Jenny speaking only Chinese and John speaking English for the most part. These lessons are much easier for me to understand. I point this out because users who are trying to bridge the gap between elementary and intermediate lessons may want to skip over the early intermediate lessons to the newer intermediate lessons where John provides more English commentary. The intermediate lessons have evolved. Chinesepod is listening to our comments. Another reassurance for elementary to intermediate users, you do not need to understand every word. I joke with my friend that maybe I understand 40% of what is being said. But I notice that the percentage that I get first pass has been steadily increasing. Aim for that. Don't let yourself get frustrated. We all go through the same experience. You are not alone. For now pick out the words you do understand. Stick with it and I know you will pick out more and more in future lessons or reviews. Try to identify the gist of what they are talking about . The details will come later. I encourage you to keep trying.May 15, 2007
rajat says
I think I should chime in with a positive note here. A couple months ago I was really struggling with the intermediate lessons although Eles were too easy for me. I complained on these comment boards quite a lot, in sheer frustration. But these dual english/chinese lessons really helped me bridge the gap... and you really need to drill down at this level and repeat each lesson over and over. Chinese is 'fun' at Ele and Newb, but now it's 'fun' and 'hard work' too... which is just fine by me, since the rewards of speaking such a widely spoken language fluently are great! From my experience, you won't get anyone speaking Chinese more clearly than Jenny. She might change speed at times, but these are natural variations that you should get used to. I also try practice my Chinese with a dude I met on craigslist for a language exchange and it is way harder to understand him than Jenny, because he speaks a lot faster and not as clear. So yeah, I think these hybrid lessons at the Inter level really do the trick - I now understand way more of the banter than ever (still not everything though). Just listen to them over and over again, and drill down on the words you don't know. The intermediate lessons are now by far my favourite - after only two months of struggle! So if you're struggling up the proverbial Chinese language, take hope from those of us who have already scaled it! (or...at least gotten to Base Camp ... the rest of us look to John as the real Edmund Hillary)May 15, 2007
rajat says
Doh for that last comment - it was supposed to be the proverbial Chinese language MOUNTAIN. So much for my poetic attempt.May 15, 2007
Lantian says
Hey BigToe! (Man2Toe) Follow the below to go to the level assessment, Study - Take a Test to Check Your Level Hi Al Wingate, I guess my dig and reaction is from a HUGE fear that Cpod (and Jenny) will diligently respond and ask Jenny to slow down. I struggled for so long while learning Japanese with the Japanese (people) because they have a very strong tendency to slow, enuciate and talk 'foreigner speak'. It comes up in their training materials and with their teachers too. Japanese students (when learning Chinese) also typically ask the teacher to slow down, and they go thru every hanzi with excruciating detail. I found this a less common 'problem' with Chinese learning materials and speakers in general and it has made my learning EASIER!! I guess from my own experience I'm actually trying to get some elementaries to change their mindsets--in an attempt to make life easier for them!! It's like I'm some super-critical non-smoker (who was an ex-smoker) asking people not to smoke. Kissenger talked like an old distorted vinyl set on 20. :) You just made an evaluation that he WAS SLOW. Never said he wasn't bright. I compare Jenny to a friend of mine of comparable age who in essence talks like a (Chinese) California Valley girl, I need to physically throw food in front of her or distract her in some way to make her pause for a breath. She truncates, slurs, adds ad-hoc adjectives and is like some stream of consciousness Chinese-speaking machine. It's like a lot of stuff in life, you know it when you see it. Just yesterday actually somebody gave me this analogy, lots of us have eaten pork and never actually ever seen a pig. We know however when it is or is not pork! Where's the beef?, I say. Hi Henning, Sigh, I can go thru 8 conversations with 8 different people and be told 8 different opinions on my level! It takes about 15 compliments to get me over the 1 or two disparaging comments about my tones and ability. ;p I watch a lot of media but there's PLENTY I don't understand of it. For example, almost all of the vocabulary in this podcast is unknown to me. I didn't understand those particular words when Jenny said them. I imagine for the user who commented things are 'too fast' she/he also didn't understand all the words around the vocab words either. But with all the words, Jenny didn't say them 'fast'. :) I guess here there's something I'd like to say about talking to people, much like the poster I have also, and still do somethings ask people "Please slow down, talk slower." But I guess I don't really mean that. (Jenny, 请别说的太慢，你可以亭一下，等一会儿，不过真的不要你改变你的口语速度，我觉得你的随便聊聊的话题真的有趣，也能帮助我的学习！） What I want them to do is to pause at words that I don't know and say them again. If it's a set of sounds particularly hard for my ears, like second versus fourth tone, or n versus ng, a little over-enunciating is appreciated. It's-dif----fer---ent t---han ---ta-lking like Kissenger about plu---ton---ium testing strat----gie---s. He probably used it as a strategy to defeat translators and treaty negotiators! Jenny does do this, pause occasionally, as best as one can to adapt to 1000s of individual users all at the same time in one podcast. Maybe my point is that with this kind of resource we, the listener, can hit the pause/repeat button! Hearing, practicing and enunciating at an artifically slowed pace, unless it's balanced with a higher amount of natural speed input, will IMO result in you sounding the same, not good. The problem for THE SPEAKER is that a lot of times they don't know which words YOU might know or not now. Some people overcompensate and say ALL the words they expect of classroom Chinese, but actually you already know those words. Then with the words they just naturally think of, which one never heard in class, they just whiz them by you, a wavelength that returns to the sun. I think this is why 'conversational partners' or a person that is familiar with you seems more comprehensible, they make allowances for our gaps in knowledge. Well, I'm glad to have taken this thread as far far away from marriage as possible! I'm really glad to read all the comments, both pro and con. It constantly helps me to re-define my own learning strategies, and I take support from those opinions and ideas that suit me. I hope others do the same, even if they are a 180 degrees opposite to mine. 我们一起聊聊和好好学习！May 15, 2007
man2toe says
Lantian- I guess the listening test is your vocab test. The variance of meaning between listening test and vocab test is rather big to me:) Lantian if I am sensing correctly that your a bit down with the Mandarin thing-shake if off big guy. Take a look at all the posts you have put up on Cpod. Just the volume of Mandarin that you have written on Cpod shows your aptitude for learning. Fight on! The 藍天 is the limit. 饅頭May 15, 2007
henning says
What I do is cycling through the podcasts from newest to first. At Intermediate, Upper Intermediate and Advanced (including "old" Advanced and "dropped" Intermediate lessons). With each cycle I go in with a bigger vocab base and understand more of what is being said. It is exiting to find a new piece of information even in some old Intermediate podcasts, those I thought I must have memorized already. Sometimes it is an interesting sidenote, sometimes a witty remark. That is why the "high-speed" Chinese banter (which does not really feal high-speed at all) is valuable for me...much unlike English conversation that really drives me crazy since the 9th or 10th cycle.. The fun of this approach is that it lays open progress in vocab and listening comprehension. Last year, early summer, I proudly reported that I get the gist of what the *subject* of the "ZH.Advanced" might be all about - now I can pretty much follow the Advanced banter (although there are still more than enough gaps open). Lantian, please stop calling yourself "Lower Intermediate" because that puts me at "Newbie". ;) I for myself have to admid that my level varies strongly with language domain: reading (fairly OK), listening (getting better), writing with a PC (grammar???), speaking (rather "ouch"), and writing by hand (virtually non-existent). I also wished new, more complex vocab would be repeated once more, especially when it is in Advanced and involves 4-characters... Man2Toe, The listening test is the "Take a test to check your level..." link on the CPod-start page. Is that what you mean with "vocab test"?May 15, 2007
AuntySue says
This is fascinating, seeing intermediate level people upset when they don't understand most of the podcast on first hearing. How quickly you forget being a newbie, when you go for weeks or months on end barely understanding ten percent of everything you hear, not even getting the gist of the topic until after studying it, and meanwhile all of the higher students tell you you're lazy for wanting some material you can understand maybe than half of, for a change. Oh how quickly we forget, how foreign the "other" seems, whoever that may be to us from time to time. As for speed, I'm with Lantian. Have a listen to almost any audio course, they're way faster right from lesson one. Try Pimsleur or the FSI course which is free online, have a listen to the breakneck speed they kick off with from day one nihao. Perhaps, though, it really is too fast for typical chinesepod students. If you've worked your way up here, you've been spoiled by way too slow newbie and elementary lessons all the time with no sampling of a faster version, and I believe it's easier to get used to the speed as a newbie than to pick it up after the luxury is ingrained. It can cause your brain to develop only inefficient processing habits, then you'll certainly need to hear slower speech than we have here. After listening to a lot of, or only, slow Mandarin, normal speed sounds almost unfamiliar. It forces you to listen to a whole phrase at a time, instead of stopping to compute after each syllable. If you haven't picked up that skill by now, perhaps it's a good thing for you that you're being made to do it!May 16, 2007
RonInDC says
All the intermediates make some valuable points and suggestions, but that doesn't mean that the ellies should 'get over it'. As John mentioned, the 'gap' thing comes up time and time. Doesn't that count for something?May 16, 2007
Lantian says
ROUNDTABLE - At dinner tonight, I basically didn't say anything. It's not that I didn't want to, it's just that there was too much unknown vocabulary being thrown around between eight people for me to absorb, let alone think of witty things to say. My mind was pretty much pre-occupied with deciphering what was being talked about. When I wrote 'get over it' I meant to say, it's easy to attribute this challenge as people 'were talking too fast.' It's the same I think for a lot of newbies. I mean tonight, I could say I was a newbie at the table. It's easy to say 'sloooow down.' But it's not natural really. Kids don't ask adults to talk slowly, they just ignore us if we're boring them! There's a big difference I think between asking a word to be highlighted, well-enunciated, or repeated than asking a whole phrase to be slowed down. There are lots of strategies to 'hear' things, lots have posted on the various things to do. When Ken says listen to the music of the language, this really is what one should do if they are a newbie. The music changes to music with a rhythm, the rhythm starts to include pauses, the pauses then sometimes have words we recognize, sing the sounds, mimic the rhythm and pauses, listen for the tones, just study a word and listen out for it in the cacophany of sounds. If it's only a 4-second clip that gives your mind plenty to digest, then that's enough. That four seconds is better than somehow artificially understanding a whole page of 300 words. The four seconds eventually become ten, then 30, 1 minute, 1 hr, etc. Remember words are really only an artificial construct, the stream of soundwaves never really stop and pause in speech, it's only our minds that create the words. As we create them, the world slows down, the spinning stops, and images appear. As Jenny says, we all create our own worlds. Others cannot do it for us. IMO :)May 16, 2007
usr1 says
I would like to ask if anybody _really_ understands Jenny first longer sentence in this podcast: mp3 normal speed: http://www.box.net/shared/xnyyin6g86 mp3 slower speed: http://www.box.net/shared/vy00510u2s I only understand this fragments (may be even wrong): 这是 … 中文的 … 中文名字 … 今天 … 中级课程 … 个特别高兴的场合。 I know it's not really important to understand everything as a learner, but after an hour listening and analyzing, I am unable to understand more. I feel quite disappointed. What is Jenny telling the audience?May 16, 2007
LeiGaoRui says
usr1, I really am not sure what you want to accomplish here. Try watching Chinese news or speaking to people - I find it to be lightening fast. Jenny tries to speak as naturally and as clearly as possible. Do you want people at CP to create this artificial environment for you where everything is nice and slow, unlike real life, so you are unable to deal with real life situations when they come?May 16, 2007
cavadarossi says
Ok, here's an idea for an intermediate lesson that should be possible at this point. You have developed much vocabulary at the Newbie and Elementary levels. How about an intermediate lesson incorporating all that vocab at a "normal" clip (which means fast. Oh, and don't forget loud! :). A kind of consolidation intermediate lesson?! Now, if that is not a bridge, I don't know what is. This type of lesson removes one of the dimensions of learning (i.e. new vocabulary) to focus on the speed issue.May 16, 2007
LeiGaoRui says
cavadarossi On the surface that sounds like a good idea and I'm sure there would be a way to do some types of review lessons but there are a few issues here as well: 1) I think some of the complaints here were not about the vocabulary using in the lesson dialogues but rather what Jenny says when she is speaking Chinese talking ABOUT the lessons. This is all stuff which is hard to reproduce in a natural sounding dialogue as much of it it specific to context. Personally, although it is a little frustrating at times, I think it is good NOT to always have the crutch of pinyin and English there for you. Here you have the luxury of listening to these sentences many times if you like and I'm sure the CP team or forum members would not be adverse to talking about what is said. I'm sure if someone said, "It seems Jenny said 这是 … 中文的 … 中文名字 … 今天 … 中级课程 … 个特别高兴的场合 is that correct?" someone could give you an answer 2) Part of the appeal of the lessons is that they are for the most-part self-contained. If you start linking Intermediate Lesson 65 with newbie 3, 27, 45 and elementary 3, 12, 56, 71 etc. you lose that plus. I find though that the most frequent vocab tends to reoccur many times.May 16, 2007
usr1 says
Just got some help from a Chinese friend. She listened to the beginning of the podcast and had also some trouble understanding Jenny... The full sentence: 这是全说中文的我就想说自己的中文名字好 - 那今天咱们中级课程要是个特别高兴的场合. Zhè shì quán shuō Zhòngwén de wǒ jiù xiǎng shuō zìjǐ de Zhōngwén míngzi hǎo - nà jīntiān zánmen zhōngjí kèchéng yào shì ge tèbié gāoxìng de chǎnghé. Such a sentence is quite challenging for a podcast that is only one level above those rather easy Elementary lessons ;-) I will concentrate on those lessons where full transcripts are available, because audio content without understanding it is like driving in the fog... Thanks again for all your comments!May 16, 2007
man2toe says
One could think about and draw an analogy between language learning and marriage. For marriage to work, there is an necessity that both partners make an individual, down to earth, diamond hard commitment to that marriage. Adult language learning could be seen in the same way, for without that individual, down to earth, diamond hard commitment to learning the language of choice, the personal situation will run into difficulties and run the chance of never being quite fulfilling and/or dissolving altogether. Even with all the above mention qualities, there is still tons of hard work, tons of hard work to do for quality of life to be comfortable. The discussion about slowing down the intermediate lessons seems rather trite. For if a learner finds this level too challenging, that is alright. That is normal. This is just an indicator that the 288 newbie and elementary lessons have yet to be mastered.(and or the need for subscribing for practice with Cpod or a personal tutor or moving to China or need some more time or...) In other words, make sure you have healthy communication patterns with your significant other before making the final say for marriage. For if you're not married or at least committed to be married by the intermediate level, what are you doing? This talk about Jenny doing this, Jenny doing that. Lets us not forget what we have in Jenny. In my 14yrs of learning Chinese, I have met many Mandarin speakers and many Mandarin teachers. To my joy and utter amazement, Cpod managed to find a teacher that rivals all the Mandarin speakers I have met to date. Out of the worlds billion plus Mandarin speakers, our teacher, OUR TEACHER, is of pure quality and must fall in the upper quadrant of the bell curve. Please think about this in these terms a minute, there is no doubt we have an amazing teacher. But wait, let us not forget about John. A non-native Mandarin speaker, who has made commitment to move his life to China, and who has the courage to get in front of microphone on a daily basis and teach Mandarin to anyone who has an interest in the WORLD. (sry about the run-on sentence:) Think about want it takes to study and get a masters in linguistics, let alone doing it in CHINA. Please, trust these teachers. They are teachers of Mandarin to Mandarin learners as are Marriage and Family Therapists are to marriages. Thats my two cents worth. Rock on Cpod.May 16, 2007
rajat says
Amen.May 16, 2007
rajat says
Also, Jenny can you tell us a little more about this ritual of removing clothes of the married pair? I used to think Chinese society was conservative, relative to Western society... wow was I wrong! Is that it, or does more hanky panky go on? Don't be shy to tell us, we're all grown up here.... I think ;) Also where do we find these pictures that you said everyone seems to take :PMay 16, 2007
Lantian says
The First 12-seconds Hi welcome to ChinesePod,Chinese on Your Term, 我是株寄, 我是Jenny. Hi I'm John. 就是全是中文哪我就想说自己中文名字好。 那，今天的课文也要是很特别高兴的场合。。。Right, today's intermediate lesson is about weddings. 婚礼对吧。Right 婚weddings. Ceremonies. 婚礼。第一声和第三声。One three，"hun li." 对。Alright, and what exactly are we learning about Chinese weddings? 我们今天要去喝喜酒。喝喜酒。So "xijiu，'xi'" is like happy. 对。And 'jiu' is alcohol. 是的。So Chinese weddings are all about getting wasted! 是！但是哪，喝喜酒的意思是。大家光。。饭，说的就是大的婚约wedding banquet，又吃又喝。Al'right, so the "jiu" represents the banquet.呢 对。And the "xi" is just because wedding banquets are happy. 是啊。Alright “xijiu" that's two third tones, right. 没错。So "he xi jiu" just means attend a Chinese wedding ceremony。对 Or any wedding ceremony. 对对对，哪咱们快去喝吧. Ok! STATS 0:00 - 0:12 240 words, 143 hanzi Hi welcome to ChinesePod,Chinese on Your Term, wǒ 我 shì 是 zhū 株 jì寄, wǒ 我 shì 是 Jenny. Hi I'm John.wǒ 我 shì 是 jiù 就 shì 是 quán 全 shì 是zhōng 中 wén 文 nǎ 哪 wǒ 我 jiù 就 xiǎng 想 shuo 说 zì 自 jǐ 己 zhōng 中 wén 文 míng 名 zì 字 hǎo 好. nā 那，jīn 今 tiān 天 de 的 kè 课 wén 文 yě 也 yāo 要 shì 是hěn 很 tè 特 bié 别 gāo 高 xīng 兴 de 的cháng 场 gě 合hūn 婚 lǐ 礼 duì 对 bā 吧. Right, today's intermediate lesson is about weddings.合hūn 婚 lǐ 礼 duì 对 bā 吧. Right hūn 婚 weddings. Ceremonies. 婚 lǐ 礼 dì 第 yī 一 shēng 声 hé 和 dì 第 sān 三 shēng 声 One three，"hun li." duì 对。 Alright, and what exactly are we learning about Chinese weddings? 对 wǒ 我 men 们 jīn 今tiān 天 yāo 要 qù 去 hē 喝xǐ 喜jiǔ 喝 hē. So "xijiu，'xi'" is like happy. duì 对。 And 'jiu' is alcohol. shì 是 de 的. So Chinese weddings are all about getting wasted! shì 是！dàn 但 shì 是 nǎ 哪，hē 喝 xǐ 喜 jiǔ 酒 de 的 yì意 si 思 shì 是 dà 大 jiā 家 guāng 光 fàn 饭. shuo 说 de 的 jiù 就 shì 是 dà 大 de 的 hūn 婚 yāo 约 yòu wedding banquet, 又chī 吃 yòu 又 hē 喝 Al'right, so the "jiu" represents the banquet. nà 呢 duì 对。And the "xi" is just because wedding banquets are happy. shì 是 ā 啊。 Alright “xijiu" that's two third tones, right. méi 没 cuò 错. So "he xi jiu" just means attend a Chinese wedding ceremony。duì 对 Or any wedding ceremony. duì 对 duì 对 duì 对，nǎ 哪 zá 咱 men 们 kuài 快 qù 去 hē 喝bā 吧 Ok! MORE STATS It took me like F-O-R-E-V-E-R to produce the second version, adding in the pinyin etc. It wasn't hard, just extremely laborious. Don't anyone even dare gripe about the format, pinyin it yourself! ;p Hi usr1, your Chinese friend had a hard time transcribing. Nothing to do with Jenny's Chinese. If so, then my Chinese is better than your friend's, and that's like incomprehensible! I had to pause and repeat lots of times to catch EXACTLY what John said (In English!). It's not necessary to be so exact in conversations, our minds do it in the background for us. Transcription is an art, listen for meaning. About the fog, there's a difference between 'explicit' learning, ie. thru the scripted dialogue, and 'acquisition' thru input like the banter. If you only do study, it will be hard to acquire. IMO FINALLY I believe I have at least TWO errors in my transcription, but I'm not telling. YOU listen and tell us where. If you don't know these filler phrases, you'll think Jenny's saying a lot. If you know them, you can speak 90% of typical Chinese conversations. 是是的。对不对。 j/k :) bā 吧. (What'ya think, ok?) bā 吧 Ok! méi 没 cuò 错 (No, mistake there!) duì 对 (Yup, ah huh, correct, right right right!) duì对 duì 对 duì对 nǎ 哪 (So, ah-hu, hey, mmm-hmm) nā 那 nà 呢 shì 是 de 的 (That's right, It is, yup, ah-huh) shi 是！ shì 是 ā 啊。 This helped? Didn't? Fun? Not fun? I sure hope this posts formated right...never can tell till I hit that little 'Add Comment' button....May 16, 2007
Lantian says
Hi welcome to ChinesePod,Chinese on Your Term, wǒ shì zhū jì， wǒ shì Jenny. Hi I'm John. wǒ shì jiù shì quán shì zhōng wén nǎ wǒ jiù xiǎng shuo zì jǐ zhong wén míng zì hǎo. nā ，jīn tiān de kè wén yě yāo shì hěn tè bié gāo xīng de cháng gě hūn lǐ duì bā. Right, today's intermediate lesson is about weddings.hūn lǐ duì bā. Right hūn weddings. Ceremonies. hun lǐ dì yī sheng hé dì sān shēng One three，"hun li." duì。 Alright, and what exactly are we learning about Chinese weddings? wǒ men jīn tiān yāo qù hē xǐ jiǔ hē. So "xijiu，'xi'" is like happy. duì。 And 'jiu' is alcohol. shì de. So Chinese weddings are all about getting wasted! shì！dàn shì nǎ ，hē xǐ jiǔ de yì si shì dà jiā guāng fàn. shuo de jiù shì dà de hūn yāo wedding banquet, yòu chī yòu hē Al'right, so the "jiu" represents the banquet. nà duì。And the "xi" is just because wedding banquets are happy. shì ā 。 Alright “xijiu" that's two third tones, right. méi cuò . So "he xi jiu" just means attend a Chinese wedding ceremony。duì Or any wedding ceremony. duì duì duì，nǎ, zán men kuài qù hē bā Ok!May 16, 2007
cavadarossi says
LeiGaoRui - CPod could implement a "consolidation" lesson however they wanted (and yes, it doesn't address all the problems people talked about and does not fit 100% into the self-contained podcast model that CPod follows so religiously), but it would address the speed issue directly. Lantian... I was going to chastise you for being verbose, but instead thanks are in order! :)May 16, 2007
man2toe says
藍天那是一分十二秒 婚宴不是婚约 宴會的宴 哇,藍天你好用功May 16, 2007
john says
Wow, I have to say that this is a totally FASCINATING discussion. I really have to express my sincere thanks to all you users who are speaking up because you get the system and you feel it works. AuntieSue, Lantian, Henning, Man2Toe, LeiGaoRui, wei1xiao4, and rajat, your sharing of your personal experiences and continued support for ChinesePod really keeps us going. That said, we don't feel that we have no room for improvement. I read your comments. I hear you. No one at ChinesePod is saying your frustration is invalid or that your feelings count for nothing. We are taking everything into consideration. What we decided a while back is that creating a new level to bridge the Ele-Int gap was not the way to go. The decision I made is to provide enough challenging Elementary lessons and accessible Intermediate lessons in order to make the transition easier. I get the impression that some of you think ChinesePod crossed this "Ele-Int Gap" issue off our To-Do List long ago. This is not the case. Ken, Jenny, and I meet before every recording session to discuss the "meat" of the lesson, and difficulty level is one of the first things we look at. In fact, just last week, we pruned an Intermediate lesson way down (making it one of the shortest we've had in a while) to make it more accessible. I have also been nagging Jenny about speaking more slowly when she forgets. In the same vein, we are always looking at more ways to push Elementary learners to their upper boundary. (More simple stories are on the way.) This whole difficulty level thing is not easy. There are a ton of variables and even more opinions. Please rest assured that we are listening, and this issue is always at the forefront in the lesson creation process. I make sure of that.May 17, 2007
artkho says
When I was in Guilin last year, I caught glimpses of newlyweds receiviing their guests. Here's a picture of a bride receiving her red envelope, http://www.flickr.com/photos/honuhaigui/162768601/in/set-72157594159226526/ Here's a picture of another bride who stood not too far from the first one, http://www.flickr.com/photos/honuhaigui/162768601/in/set-72157594159226526/. She probably said to herself: "Darn that half-foreigner (半老外) tourist! He just blocked the view of my photographer." :-) If I had known about the weird and mean games the guests played on the newlyweds when I was in Guilin, I would have crashed one of these bride's party just to experience this wedding custom.May 17, 2007
artkho says
Oops, I cut and pasted the same picture twice. The second bride's picture is http://www.flickr.com/photos/honuhaigui/162765503/in/set-72157594159226526/.May 17, 2007
AuntySue says
John, when you speak all that English, explaining everything, and translating just about everything Jenny says or so it seems, there's a little bit of untranslated Jenny speak that I as a newbie don't understand, of course. What I'm wondering is, is that portion of untranslated Jenny-speak meant to be a part of the lesson? Is it words to learn as part of the lesson, or is it superfluous, just semi-intelligible immersion material like when I listen to the overall sound Chinese radio shows for kicks? It seems to me that the answer to that question is vital to students' approach to the intermediate lessons, and people's satisfaction with what is provided and with their own performance. It also makes a huge difference in the levels system, whether the scripted dialogue and English explanations are at the intended study level, or whether the free Jenny speak is at the intended study level. Is the hard untranslated conversation stuff interesting auditory wallpaper, extension material for people who are nearly Advanced already, or part of the Intermediate level lesson material? Do you include its content when calculating for yourselves whether it's an easy or hard Intermediate lesson? Whatever the answer is, I don't think we as a group are understanding your intentions properly, and that's really important.May 17, 2007
AuntySue says
Sorry for saying everything three times, it's the tiny little comment box, out of box out of mind. :-)May 17, 2007
usr1 says
@Lantian: Thanks for your work creating a transcript of the first seconds. But I think it is not totally correct: there is no "de 的 kè 课 wén 文 yě 也" in the sentence. But OK! My Chinese friend said that Jenny is by far not speaking very clearly here. In her opinion (and mine) this is not very suitable for this language level - even this is only a sentence of bla-bla banter... And Lantian: I think it is "incomprehensible" that you understand this better than a native speaker - and telling us that you are "low-intermediate". I am "upper-elementary"... *GRIN*.May 17, 2007
usr1 says
@AuntieSue: You brought up the right question! I am very eager to hear an answer ftom the CP team. My approach to the intermediate lessons is to understand not only the lesson but also 90-95% of the banter. This isn't the case in the moment, so my satisfaction with my own performance is not as high as it should be. There is more frustration than happy eagerness. With elementary lessons I feel unchallenged. There is very little to learn, the speech is too sometimes rather slow near the Newbie level... That's my "gap". I am trying to overcome this by using older lesson where full transcripts are available..May 17, 2007
henning says
Are we walking in circles? Haven't we been just here before? And it is always the same. One group claims the Intermediate banter is too tough, the other wants it untouched to prevent the lessons from becoming boring. I love the Intermediate lessons just as they are but I am not alone here. Right now I only see one logical conclusion: There is a *natural* Upper Elementry (or Lower Intermediate) level. With Chinese banter that is more restricted and lower speed, and has more and more basic explanations. Complexity could be similar to those early Intermediates that once proudly carried the numbers 10-30. I think I understand the theory behind the level distinctions, but the "Upper Intermediate" also broke through that logic and it proved to be extremly valuable. The new level would leave everybody happy (and by the way increase the volume of beyond-Elementry-material). Besides there would be another benefit: Each day of the week gets one level. Restore order in the galaxis! ;)May 17, 2007
usr1 says
@Man2Toe "...... Rock on Cpod.": CP should give you a free one-year premium account for such a positive statement... SCNR You asked: "what are you doing?" For several years I use textbooks, had courses, had several trips to China, speak quite a lot, worked through more than 100 Newbie and 50 Elementary podcasts, listened to Melnyks' lessons. I am learning Chinese now for more than 5 years.May 17, 2007
jennyzhu says
Like John said, we are all about listening to you and always will be. What's special about chinesepod is that it brings individuals with different needs, goals and ways of thinking together to learn, share and conquer. The jump to intermediate is a substantial leap forward in any filed of learning. In my own experience of learning English, I've found that patience is a virtue. This is what sustains leanring for me. Languages are an infinitely evolving galaxy. You are always being challenged and pursuing 'the answer'. That's the perpetual allure of studying languages. Enjoy the ride.May 17, 2007
man2toe says
We are on Lap 76 henning:) usr1 Keep pushing, learning a language is a life long trip:) Sounds like your doing well, you share a health variety of language experiences. Please note however 50 elementary lessons is not even half of what Cpod offers. Keep at them even if they seem easy, each lesson still has nuances that are helpful to learn. In addition, continue to reach into intermediate, and in my opinion, reach in upper intermediate. The more exposure the better. Please for the sake of our community refrain form pitting this unknown Chinese friend of yours against Jenny. Jenny has already proven herself to be in the upper deviation of the bell curve. For all the Cpod listeners know of this "friend" -they could be in the mean or ever a low deviation. Out of billion plus people, the variance is huge. A thought; there are 105 lessons to push students into the intermediate level. There are 41 upper intermediate lessons to push students into advance. On the language/marriage analogy, looks like we could use some more marriage material around here:) 加油May 17, 2007
greggygate says
I'd just like to thank you all for allowing me to procrastinate. I was just laying on my living room floor listening to the lessson through my stereo (really loudly since no one was home), and I came to my computer to do the exercises, only to become totally immersed in this conversation. Now it's dinnertime! 牛排！May 22, 2007
Nainai says
I haven't listened to this yet. I was directed to it by Cpod as I was questioning something else. My daughter got married last year in Yizhang in Hunan and it was all a complete mystery to me. However all your comments have put me off listening to it - they sound so negative - this website is a godsend to me as a newbie. Will I ever achieve another level? I hope you can appreciate the access you have to such a complex and complicate language and appreciate all the work that is done to enable you to achieve such heady heights. Perhaps the lack of oxygen is affecting your politeness. I hope to see you up there one day!!!May 17, 2007
henning says
Naiai, we all here are well aware that CPod is godsend - especially because they indeed cover intermediate levels and the content is both relevant and fun. You find some newbie and (very few) advanced materials out there, but at Intermediate hights air gets very, very thin. Although this classic debate got heated as ever, I do not think the tone got particularly rude. These open discussions wouldn't exist if CPod wasn't listening and constantly reacting to users' requests. In fact the whole "Upper Intermediate" level was born out of a similar debate (if I remember that correctly). And this might become relevant for you - sooner than you think. Congratulations, by the way, to your daughter's marriage! From my own experience there is nothing more rewarding than a cross-cultural marriage, although your daughter and her husband will most probably have to overcome some unforseen challenges on the way... :)May 17, 2007
jeff says
I have an idea - would it be possible to give each page (dialogue, vocab, expansion, exercises) its own discussion? I feel like this would bring more focus to each discussion. Fascinating, general type discussions could be had out here, and expansion sentence, vocab, or exercise specific questions could be discussed more in detail on their respective pages. I realize this would exclude non-premium members from those discussions, but maybe there could be a workaround. Just an idea!May 17, 2007
usr1 says
@Nainai: I don't see any "negatives" in the above discussion, which was only about some difficulties in understanding the banter and in jumping from one level to the next. Of course CP is God-sent! I fully agree. There is nothing similar in the WWW. If you have the PDF at hand, listening to and understanding the dialogue is not too difficult. So have fun and enjoy.May 17, 2007
mandarinmoose says
A very interesting discussion on lingusitic aspects. When I prepared to teach English in China I went through a rough 30-day boot camp to earn a "CELTA" certificate from Cambridge University and recall that they would establish different learning objectives for listening exercises. Usually the first listening exercise was "Listening for Gist" with the objective not being to understand every word but just to determine the general subject of what was being discussed. Now, this allows for being able to feel that an objective can be accomplished and also to feel stretched as one pushes into more expanded subject areas and faster talking speeds. A later repetition of the listening exercise would then be used as an exercise to listen for selected vocabulary words or to listen for the answer(s) to pre designated questions about the subject matter. I am sure Ken is familiar with these approaches. The main point is to estabish achievable yet challenging objectives. Are you listening as a fluency exercise (throw me in the deep water at street speed to see if I can accomplish a functional objective, e.g. get my hair cut) or are you listening as an accuracy exercise (e.g. did I understand every word? --Can I answer questions to display my comprehension? My two cents Great Site CP! user28623 aka Mandarin MooseMay 18, 2007
man2toe says
Well said.May 18, 2007
mark says
新郎新娘和结婚夫结婚妻有什么不同？ 谢谢May 18, 2007
lorean says
Hey, first this is an amazing 5-star lesson. What cpod does with 白头偕老 is really clever: repeating it 3 times in the dialog. Chinese sayings are particularly difficult for me to remember. But by listening to the dialog over 25 times, I've heard the same phrase at least 75 times. I encourage cpod to continue using difficult vocabulary multiple times in the same dialog. I don't want intermediate level speech retarded in any way. As an English teacher, I know that by not speaking at my normal speed, my intonation and rhythm become alien. As a Chinese student, I don't want to actively learn retarded speech.May 18, 2007
lorean says
Lantian, great transcript. Here are the mistakes I found in the first part (changes in brackets): 就是全(说)中文。。。(97% sure she says 说 not 是) 但是哪，（其实）喝喜酒的。。。 咱们（赶）快去喝吧。。。May 18, 2007
jennyzhu says
Mark, “新郎”、“新娘” are about the only words for 'groom' and 'bride'. 结婚夫, 结婚妻 are not correct.May 18, 2007
guiller says
I feel that the business goals of CP: limit the podcasts to <15 minutes and to have lessons to be "self contained" do contribute to the gaps between levels. I wish there were “premium podcasts” without those limitations.May 19, 2007
lorean says
Guiller, do you mean like the recent vocab repetition across podcasts, and the two story arcs 张亮和丽丽 + Canadian Businessman?May 19, 2007
mikeinewshot says
I think that the texts in iMandarinpod are simpler that the Chinesepod Intermediates, and may help to bridge that gap! http://www.imandarinpod.com/hoola/May 19, 2007
mark says
Oh. I could have sworn I got 结婚夫, and 结婚妻 from a textbook. I guess I won't trust that book anymore (or maybe my memory).May 19, 2007
jennyzhu says
Mark, The words are probably 未婚妻/wei4 hun1 qi1/fiancee and 未婚夫/wei4 hun1 fu1/fiance.May 19, 2007
jbradfor says
By my count this is Intermediate lesson 99. Nicely done, ChinesePod!! Since the character for 9 (九）sounds the same as the character for a long duration of time (久 ), 9 is a very good number for weddings. Please tell me this was planned?May 19, 2007
jennyzhu says
jbradfor, This is fate. Thank you for the very thoughtful observation! From now on, we are going to say we totally planned it.May 19, 2007
jbradfor says
A while back Jenny Zhu wrote "I do apologize for the speed of my speech and the occasional hard words if they caused any issue. I can get a bit carried away with certain topics." Don't apologize. I think it's great when you do that. For so many reasons. First, it keeps us humble. Just when I think I'm mastering this, along comes a stream of full-speed Mandarin to remind me how people *actually* talk. [Not to mention the (all too) occasional excitement when I can actually follow it....] Second, it provides various levels of teaching within one lesson. Some fast speech, some slow speech, some easy vocab, some hard vocab, some useful vocab, some fun vocab. Mix it up! Third, as Lorean writes, "I know that by not speaking at my normal speed, my intonation and rhythm become alien. As a Chinese student, I don't want to actively learn retarded speech." By hearing natural-paced speech, it helps us get use to it, and we learn more.May 19, 2007
guiller says
Lorean, What I mean is that as a premium user, I wish there were "premium" podcasts that would spend more time explaining, give more examples on usage. etc. I know a lot of that stuff can be found in the expansions, but for me I rather have that expansion feature in the podcast. This is "chinese on my terms" right? :-)May 19, 2007
guiller says
I don't think in chinese slow speed is a problem. Ever heard Premier Wen Jia Bao speak? (Not that I would understand anything, but I can definitely write down all the pinyin as he speaks :-) )May 19, 2007
Lantian says
The Best and Brightest - Hi Guiller, to offer an analogy, I hope nobody studying English tries to emulate President Bush. ;p 开玩笑 "I'm honored to be here with the eternal general of the United States, mi amigo Alberto Gonzales." --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., May 4, 2007 "Information is moving -- you know, nightly news is one way, of course, but it's also moving through the blogosphere and through the Internets." --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., May 2, 2007May 19, 2007
man2toe says
拜託藍天,請別把布什丟到垃圾桶裡.這樣批評他一點都沒有好的效果.我們都已經知道布什不是完美的.May 20, 2007
lai4ha2ma says
The gap, the frustration: I think it is one of the good things the leap to intermediate offers the elementary student. It recreates (creates) the feeling of actually being in the country (I haven’t been to China yet, but I’ve traveled a little in Europe.) Jenny is actually using a limited vocabulary, mixing in some English, and being interpreted by John. It’s hard to realize this at first because the natural talking is so overwhelming, but the second and third hearing, things start to emerge. I try to relax, not panic, and not fret about not getting stuff.May 20, 2007
Lantian says
Man2Toe, 你那样回答真像中国人，不能批评国家的事情！我是很简单的人，我看到大象我就说‘大象’，如果我看到了老鼠我就说‘老鼠’！ :pMay 20, 2007
man2toe says
藍天 哈哈大笑 所以你走進廁所才發現前用地人匆匆沒沖而自己也會用才繼續不用沖嗎?May 20, 2007
YantaiGuy says
I'm having my 2nd (Chinese one for my Chinese wife) wedding in 41 days, and I'm only a newbie! Aaargh!May 21, 2007
YantaiGuy says
PS: Jenny's speed is about average, but her pronunciation is quite clear. My father in law slurs his words and is a stutterer, and speaks a particular type of 中文 that isn't all that close to 普通话. Count yourself lucky CPodders!May 21, 2007
jennyzhu says
Yantai Guy, Congratulations! I am sure the language of love is more than sufficient. 祝你们白头偕老！May 21, 2007
guiller says
Lantian and Man2Toe, thanks for the mini chinese lesson/dialog. Entertaining and learned a lot. (Thanks to Firefox/Perakun, of course)May 21, 2007
taibeitimes says
The biggest discrepancy between the elementary between the elementary and intermediate lessons seems to be the amount of Chinese conversation. The elementary broadcast is maybe 10% whereas the interemediate is at least 60% maybe? Furthermore, the intermediate lesson is signficantly broader and dynamic in scope. I feel both the intermediate and elementary lessons/broadcasts are well done. However, I feel the elementary level doesn't offer enough for listening practice. While there are a number of lessons to access, they offer very brief dialogues covering a variety of topics and vocabulary. Perhaps some summary lessons could be done periodically which offer primarily dialogue, some brief overiew and references to previous lessons with vocab, grammar, etc. which make up the basis for the summary lesson. I agree that elementary students need to challenge themselves and there is a gap going from elementary to intermediate. Nevertheless, the elementary level could offer more in terms of quality listening practice in making that transition IMHO.May 22, 2007
JohnT says
I'm sorry to be joining the discussion so (too) late. I don't very often follow the newest lessons because I'm back on previous lessons. In fact, a few weeks ago, I started back going through the intermediate lessons in chronological order, pulling out the words I still didn't know, making flash cards, and memorizing the dialog sentences such that I could translate from the English, even though I had studied them a year or more ago. I used to feel the same usr1 that the elementary-intermediate gap was too big, but I'm thinking now that I went to the intermediate too soon, that it actually was too high a level for me. But of course, I don't think it was time wasted; it just meant more learning pain. So, what I did then, was to got back and systematically study the elementary lessons in the same way. Before, I would at least listen to them, but felt that they were too simple, since I could understand the dialog by the end of the lesson from just listening, and if I went over the transcript, I generally could only write down 2-8 new words per lesson. What I wasn’t fully understanding then is that learning Chinese is far more than just learning words. I could do my flash cards great, but I still felt very frustrated anytime I had to construct a sentence I hadn't done before in an attempt at conversation. What I discovered was that the elementary lessons are a wealth in basic sentences, phrases, and grammar, and not so much in lots of vocabulary. In doing this systematic approach I could go through 5 elementary lessons a day, pull out the vocabulary I still didn't know, and memorize the lessons, just like I had done with the intermediate, and I felt very proud when I made it up to the current lesson at that time. But boy was I surprised when I went back to the intermediate lesson! It just seemed like suddenly I was able to follow more of Jenny's speaking, though still not all. I then went on to some of the latest intermediate lessons, but then decided to try again the systematic approach of trying to absorb the lessons chronologically. I'm still pulling out vocabulary, but this time trying also to pay much more attention to the sentence structure, patterns, and especially the idiomatic phrases. I’ve also accepted the reality that learning Chinese requires a major, multi-year commitment. CPod, thank you, thank you, thank you!May 25, 2007
JohnT says
One thing that set my expectations high in learning Chinese was that when I was 19, I served a Spanish-speaking mission in Chicago. I was sent to what was then called the Language Training Mission center at BYU in Utah for two months, and pretty much felt comfortable with the language after only a couple months in the field. Thus I thought that when I started to learn Chinese that even given that I couldn’t speak it a good part of every day like on a mission, it would probably only just take me a year to get fluent, since I hadn’t actually had to study Spanish all that hard. NOT! Of course, I’m now 50, not 19, and it does seem the brain cells don’t fill up like they used to. I study Chinese way harder than I did Spanish. I go to a Mandarin-speaking LDS church in California every week, and we have missionaries that come and serve for two years, who learned Chinese for the mission. They go to the Missionary Training Center (as it’s now called) in Provo for three months, and they come out speaking better than I do with my couple of years or more effort. And, like it was with Spanish and I, after just a couple of months they seem reasonably fluent, and by the year mark they are very comfortable. I even was given a copy of the book that they use to study Chinese, which I went nearly completely through. The speaking practice they get every day must really make a difference. Of course, there might be some heavenly help involved too…May 25, 2007
longfei says
I can relate to JohnT's surprise at finding out that Chinese is much more difficult than Spanish. I learned Spanish and German fluently as a kid and Romanian when I was in my 30's so I was very confident that I could learn Mandarin with only marginally more effort. Boy, was I surprised! I'm now in my mid-40's and Chinese has been both so much more difficult and so much more satisfying than i initially thought it would be. I have often wondered if the reason for the difficulty is because of my age or the enormous difference in difficulty. I'm still not so sure I know the answer to this.June 29, 2007
longfei says
At 0:22 in the lesson, is Jenny saying the Shanghainese word for "dui ba"?June 29, 2007
xiaohu says
Hi JohnT and LongFei, Yeah, learning Chinese is more difficult than you thought. I had these great dreams of being fluent in reading, writing and speaking within 2 years, well obvously I was wrong. I feel the same as Longfei, Chinese has been much harder and even more satisfying and rewarding than I originally thought. Chinese is rated among the few hardest languages in the world to learn so if anyone is even marginally successful at learning it, that's still a pretty monumental feat! I'm 32 and started studying in my late 20's so I don't think your age has anything to do with it, just that Chinese is that difficult. Keep on learning, putting in the extra effort to learn the Mandarin language and having the ability to communicate with the Chinese people is SO WORTH IT!July 4, 2007
john says
longfei, Wow, you have a sharp ear! You're right, she says something that sounds like "dei va" rather than "duì ba." Fortunately this is an intermediate lesson, so it shouldn't pose too much of a problem, but I'll have to listen more carefully in the future to make sure she keeps her Shanghainese in check! :)July 4, 2007
Lantian says
Longfei and John, Wow wow. You two reeeeally have sharp ears. I relistened to that portion of the podcast just now. At first I simply heard "dui ba". Then I relistened and heard "duiba". I then turned up the volume and maybeee now I'm hearing "duiva". Not sure I can hear a "dei" versus "dui". Is that really a Shanghainese word "dei va" or are we just hearing stuff? I think I may do a little boot camp on my accent, I've been ignoring it lately.July 4, 2007
longfei says
In China, I used to work around a lot of Shanghainese speaking their dialect. The frequent use of "dei va" , more so than "dui ba" in Mandarin I would say, seemed to be a curious characteristic of the dialect. 龙飞July 4, 2007
john says
Lantian, "Dei va" is Shanghainese. Shanghainese residents often throw little tidbits of their dialect into their Mandarin, such as ending questions with "hao vu la" rather than 好吗. It appears even our dear Jenny is not immune.July 5, 2007
jennyzhu says
I feel sufficiently embarrassed about my 'dui va'. Listening to the 0:22 mark for 10 times, I deciphered that I said something between 'dui va' and 'dui ba', which could only be an attempt to correct myself. It is ironic since I hardly speak Shanghainese in my life now, but some speech habits just get under your skin. My apologies. And I'll watch out for things like that.July 6, 2007
longfei says
Wow, you guys seems so apologetic about this "dei va - dui ba" issue that now I'm embarrassed I even brought it up. I just thought it was a cute slip (and a little bit of a cultural curiousity). It was not meant to be any criticism at all! Is the embarrassment a sign of self-imposed perfection? Is that what it takes to attain the excellence we see in Chinesepod? 龙飞July 6, 2007
danjo says
To add yet another comment to the discussion above, I for one had no problem transitioning from Elementary to Intermediate. The way the Intermediate lessons are done now is perfect, and since John is speaking English and repeating in English most of what Jenny says, there is no need to understand everything Jenny says in Chinese. If you listen closely she uses quite a lot of the same phrases in each lesson and to be honest I find Jenny's Chinese easier than the lesson dialogues. And since the dialogue is the focus of the lesson I've never been much concerned with the Chinese banter I didn't understand, there are only so many new words I want to learn in a day.July 14, 2007
Lantian says
Hi Longfei, Jenny, et al, I thought it was neat that Longfei could actually hear the accent. I would've first sworn it was dui ba, but I like Jenny, listened over and over and then could hear the underlying 'va. ...I think. Today, I was watching t.v. and heard a Chinese contestant sing in English. What struck me was how quickly I realized that I wasn't hearing Chinese. I hadn't yet heard the word or had any idea what she was singing, but the 'sound' of English lept out at me. The mind is really amazing at times. dui'va. :)July 21, 2007
mikeinewshot says
I hope some people find this useful in understanding the banter – ie a few words that I managed to pick out of the discussion. I hope they are correct. The majority of the look ups are from the MDBG online dictionary at http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?page=main 场合 chang3 he2 situation / occasion 婚礼 hun1 li3 wedding ceremony / wedding 广泛 guang3 fan4 extensive / wide range 婚宴 hun1 yan4 wedding reception 读音 du2 yin1 pronunciation 困惑 kun4 huo4 bewilder / perplexity / confused 表达 biao3 da2 to voice (an opinion) / to express / to convey 宏大 hong2 da4 (adj) great; grand; massive 地区 di4 qu1 area / region 消息 xiao1 xi5 news / information 热闹 re4 nao5 bustling with noise and excitement / lively 亲密 qin1 mi4 (adj) intimate; close 变态 bian4 tai4 metamorphosis / abnormal / anomalous 卧房 wo4 fang2 bedroom / a sleeping compartment (on a train) 程度 cheng2 du4 degree (level or extent) / level 伴随 ban4 sui2 to follow / to accompanyAugust 12, 2007
artkho says
May I suggest a lesson on the pre-wedding rituals such as the tea ceremony or the hoops that the groom has to jump through before he can claim his bride.November 2, 2007
amber says
Good idea Art! Forewarned is forearmed! ;)November 2, 2007
julesong says
This is the first time I'd heard that the lessons above elementary aren't given to us in the PDFs as pinyin. Oh my. Panic sets in... (luckily, I'm still a long way from needing those PDFS)... "It wasn't hard, just extremely laborious. Don't anyone even dare gripe about the format, pinyin it yourself! ;p" Glad to see the smiley at the end of that. :) However, unfortunately making it into pinyin to those who can't read the characters is, well, impossible. (Unless there's a free pinyin conversion program online someone can direct us to.) After all, the focus of the podcast is on spoken Mandarin. Giving pinyan seems a good compromise, considering the podcast's established and oft-stated focus. (And I was directed to this lesson for a completely different purpose, but yes, had to read through the entire discussion...) ;)February 23, 2008
ght47 says
John and Jenny, Both of you should check with some Mandarin speaking people before making bad mistakes in your teaching lessons. You have said that 请帖 "qing3 tie3" can also be pronounced qing2 tie1. Now, where in the world did you get that from? Just because many people many mistakes and mispronounce words does not make that pronunciation right. Please look at the meaning of the individual word : tie 1 and tie3. Similarly you say that Xing1fen4 has two pronunciation because xing also has a fourth tone. This is absurd and very wrong of you to teach this way.You have continued to do this despite being informed. There are many words that have 2 tones. Do you mean to say that they can be interchanged? Let me give you a few examples: 别 bie2 , bie4 参 can 1 , cen 1 长 chang2, zhang3 冲 chong1 ,chong4 处 chu3 , chu4 炸 zha2 , zha4 大 da4, dai4 和 he2, huo (neutral tone) and numerous other characters. As you can see above it is not only tone difference but some words even carry different pronunciation. So, John and Jenny, please stop teaching the wrong things to students. As it is Mandarin is a difficult language to learn and you are not helping much by mispronouncing words and by having a lackadaisical attitude in teaching.March 3, 2008
website says
Flicker is blocked in China.March 6, 2008
nguyen says
你們好. 請問哪位有教中文發音的MP3嗎? 可不可以給我. 謝謝!May 11, 2008
auntie68 says
Hello nguyen, if what you're looking for is a general guide to Chinese pronunciation （发音) and hanyu pinyin -- with MP3s --, you might find http://www.pinyin.org useful. All the best!May 11, 2008