The Jenny Zhu Show - Clean Energy in China with Dennis Bracy

This interview was done 2 months ago, but it came out at a time when G20 countries will meet in Pittsbourgh this week to discuss climate change and clean energy. That's the moral responsibility of our generation.

I am always a little concerned about the longevity of a lot of new 'green' tech - but I am thoroughly pro-green.

The current generation of car batteries are not only extraordinarily heavy, and sizeable, but also pretty hard to dispose of in a green way. Even with their size and weight they still fail to provide impressive statistics.

I really hope there are good evangelists such as Dennis promoting research into more efficient technology. I really think there is a danger that we all adopt this technology early, and dump the technology en masse as soon as something more efficient comes along.

Great interview by the way! Dennis is very easy to listen to, and I am certain he has a bunch more stories to tell.

@lotsofwordsnospaces,

I find Dennis's story very moving. I even feel quite emotional to hear him talking about coming to China in 1984 (I was only 2 back then!) and being enthralled with the culture and people which had been completely blocked from the outside world. It reminds me of another Poddie friend who served in the U.S. military during the Cold War and now travels to China regularly. He says he still finds it amazing that he can walk on the streets of China, work with Chinese co-workers and try to connect with the culture. We are all very lucky to be part of this dramatic transformation.

Very interesting and timely interview. This morning my newspaper here in Denmark carried a long article about China taking the international lead in clean energy. On the contrary  the Climate Summit due in Copenhagen later this year is threathened by failure, due to feet dragging on the American side.

On a different note: Memories, Chengdu late 1984, hot chicks and tough guys in high leather boots and trendy jackets drinking and brawling in the bar at the Jinjiang Hotel, while serious laobaixing were dancing in a small café near the river to amazing pop tunes - old with young, men and women, men with men and girls together. And the rumour of the night - now public dancing will also be allowed in Beijing! You could just sit down and see China opening up in front of your eyes.

@tage

your 'scenes in Chengdu late 1984' is evocative, but I wonder what it all means.  (It actually brought to my mind Red Dust.)  

Scenes in Chengdu (substitute pretty much any sizeable city outside Shanghai) 25 years later.  Not much different really - a few people dressing up and displaying some of the artifacts of Western culture.  I don't know that they really were 老百姓 in those days but I do know that 老百姓 these days are not dancing in the cafes.  

Mind you I am not arguing that failure to adopt Western culture is a bad thing (rather the reverse.)  I am just asking, what does 'opening up' mean, then and now?  

Here's my point: .. in 2009 a band playing American 'pop tunes' in a Chinese city of five million plus is likely to attract a crowd of maybe a hundred people (I'm being generous). Most of them foreigners.  

Interesting?    

@bodawei

When you had spent some time living in China in the seventies the experience of "opening up" in the eighties could be quite overwhelming and always fascinating.

By the way, the trendy people mentioned had created a very special Sichuan style - outside influence could have been Russian. The people dancing were just ordinary citizens - the musical influence Western, but I think filtered through the dance hall tradition of preliberation China and Hong Kong, and with strong Chinese flavor.

I don't know about now, but not long ago there was a flourishing dance hall culture in many Chinese cities - places where foreigners were not especially welcome.

The reaction in your band scenario just shows how fast things change. In the mid seventies I managed to gather a crowd of several hundred very friendly people by just standing on a street in Tianjin - today hardly anybody cares. Fortunately.

Electric cars are nice and all, but still require electricity.  I'm not enough of an engineer to say what's better; locally generated energy with only rudimentary emission controls or centralized power plants with state of the art emission control, but also with concomitant transmission losses.

Still, all that aside, if China really wanted to cut back on emissions, it should go back to the transportation that was in vogue in 1984, the bicycle... led of course by the splendid example of its partner, the U.S.!

@tage

'Opening up' is a complex social as well as economic phenomenon (forgive me for getting serious).  I am sure that it is all that you say (eg. fascinating), specially as you experienced China when it was relatively 'closed'.  I just resist getting unequivocally warm inside at the notion of 'opening up', even at the economic level, because a market economy produces many 'bads' along with the 'goods'.  China has its share of 'bads', the most obvious being environmental pollution.  The drive for economic growth and status has spurned other industries that harm the culture and even destroy the lives of innocent people.  Unfortunately this all gets counted as Gross Domestic Product, so the proud headline GDP figures conceal some nasty and damaging activity (as it does in the West.)  

As for the other matter - the adoption of Western ideas and symbols (eg. the dance craze you mention) I am an agnostic - I don't really have a strong view.  Mainly because it just that, symbolic - it hardly reaches to the deeply held values in Chinese culture.  I would be personally disturbed if there was a serious loss of local culture, but I don't think that there is much risk of Chinese culture being damaged by a few dance halls.  What I was saying above is that it would appear that the 'opening up' in respect of things like dancing to Western music (apart from the 'ballroom dancing' phenomenon which I think has now been almost completely Sinofied) is very marginal.  I think Chinese values are fairly safe from Western influence.  The influence running in the other direction may well be stronger, since 'opening up'.

Great to hear all your comments and always a pleasure to speak with our charming laoshi, Jenny.

If you'd like to learn more about the clean energy issues we are addressing, and the eight initiatives developed by Chinese and American teams, please visit our website: www.cleanenergyforum.org.

I'm largely agnostic about any particular form of technology--there are many, many solutions that will help us live in a cleaner world. The key is to be as innovative in creating policies, financing systems and a cooperative program as we are in developing new technologies.

One final note: I do believe electric vehicles would represent a big step  forward. Not only do they reduce or eliminate emissions, they also can be recharged at night, using wind (which tends to blow at night) or existing plants that are operating anyway. Lower carbon, cleaner atmosphere, less reliance on imported oil--a triple win!

@dennisbracy,

Great to hear from the man himself. A few days ago, a report on CNN said that investing in clean energy research would be a lot cheaper and productive than simply trying to cut emission. What's your take on that?

@tvan,

If we can sexy up bikes to be the new status symbol, I reckon many Chinese would go back to 2 wheels. Paging Don Draper from Mad Men.

@jenny

I did some attitudinal surveys in 2007 about choice of personal transport and those results are consistent with your view that a 'sexy look' influences those choices. But i think we have lost the battle here in China re. bicyles - e-scooters outnumber bicycles now where I live.  What is worse, the city planning decisions pretty much preclude bicycles -- we are building the cities for motor cars.  Even the Kunming road network is starting to look like that of Los Angeles.  This is one of the most unfortunate artifacts China has borrowed from the West - it is already becoming an expensive mistake.  Yes, I love the old-style Chinese city (designed for walking) with about 25% - 30% less road surface area than an Australian city.  Combine that with a metro system and you would have a great solution for 21st century China.

Isn't there some kind of initiative in place, at least in Beijing, where you can only drive your car on certain days based on the licence plate on the car? This is supposed to reduce the amount of cars being driven at any time. I was at a small conference/discussion-group in Beijing about environmental issues when I was in China earlier this year. It was an interesting experience to hear what locals thought about the environmental issues in their country, as compared to what we hear and see on TV.

Not surprisingly, the main cause of pollution was touted to be "cars".. but not industry. When I was travelling around the country I noticed that there was a lot (heaps in fact) of industry pollution occurring. For example, on my 2 hour bus ride from Chengdu to Leshan we went past a number of what appeared to be refineries or smelting factories and they were billowing out dark, thick smoke that covered the surrounding areas. When I asked about this, it was discounted as a primary source of pollution and that cars were the primary concern. I think that this viewpoint is concerning in itself.

Hi Light

I believe the initiative you are referring to was only during the Olympics and was in place to reduce pollution.

您好Xiansheng Dennis Bracy! Hi my name is Tom and I'm from Australia. I'm
studying Chinese and Economics Do you know any websites on how I may get
into the development of clean energy tech? I'd like to start a business
in it :D

hi, my name is renato, i have been studying chinese for 3 years, could you tell me if teaching italian in china is very requested?

@Light487 and Rjberki,

The restricted use of cars during the Beijing Olympics was brought back on a trial basis this April and will last till next year. But it was revised to spread out the restriction over 5 working days in order to still preserve some flexibility for car owners, or ease them in. I don't know what exact impact this has had. Any Beijing Poddies to shed some light?  

@Bodawei,

Agree with your observation. Much of the challenge lies in how to channel the aspirations of newly affluent Chinese who want the Chinese Dream if you will: a house, a car, a plasma TV, etc. I remember watching a special report on CNN which gave the example of a young couple in Beijing whose dream was to own a car, despite the fact that public transportation could well support their daily commute. As the journalist pointed out, for them, the car was a milestone, a powerful symbol of personal accomplishment. And there are millions and millions of Chinese who share the same dream. Take Shanghai for example, the city's public transportation system is really well connected by any standards. It has an ever sprawling subway network, highly accessible bus routes, but people still want cars. For many of them, they are buying a dream, a lifestyle.     

@renatom100,

It's helpful to frame the question as which part of China has a demand for Italian. There is definitely a market in Shanghai and Beijing, and much bigger than all other cities combined. Although small compared to the demand for English,  however as they always say, a small market in China is a big market by any other standards. You can google 'teach Italian Shanghai'. You will get some job listings. Best of luck!

Jenny,

Thank you, I didnt realize that the auto restrictions on even and odd days in Beijing were tried a second time. If I remember correctly this was not a popular program the first time around.

 I only wish we had more trains in the US. I would love not to need an automobile. Cars and driving are such a burden. When Im in SH I usually have a driver. It is so nice not to drive, and trains are even better because there is no traffic. No risk, go gas, no stress, no car payment, no car insurance, no parking fees or tickets, no license plates, and no fines for driving alone during restricted rush hours. Car pooling is mandatory in some cities at certain times or in certain lanes. They even sell cardboard or inflatable passengers to help you avoid getting a ticket.  I tried letting mine drive but it didnt work out too well :-).

I don't know about the Beijing restrictions, but I do remember when they something similar in the California, early 1980's.  You could only visit a gas station based on odd/even days based upon your license plate.  My friends and I just came up with "quick release" license plates and swapped.  

Just a suspicion, but I think Chinese are at least that creative.

Jenny/RJ: Ahh.. brought back in April.. that explains why it was a hot topic at the discussion group I attended then because I was in Beijing in April this year. :)

Wow,excellent relevant and topical interview.I'll be interested to learn when electric cars will be widely available in Australia.Will there be an economically viable way of converting petrol cars to electric?

"They even sell cardboard or inflatable passengers to help you avoid getting a ticket.  I tried letting mine drive but it didnt work out too well :-)."

..hehe,very funny RJ.I didn't know that.

One thing about riding pushbikes.I don't know what the situation is like in China,but here in Oz very few workplaces seem to have a shower.I once rang around several places looking to find out if they had a shower before I was lucky enough to find one before I then asked if I could have a job.Others seemed to think this was a strange way to approach a job,but hey it worked for me..I could now ride my bike to work.So perhaps not only should such cleaner options be made more appealing,but also research into what the barriers are to making such options practical and ways to remove the barriers.e.g as alluded to above,town planning for safe bikeways.

Baba, 你真的了不起！

not only should such cleaner options be made more appealing,but also research into what the barriers are to making such options practical and ways to remove the barriers.e.g as alluded to above,town planning for safe bikeways.

说得很对。

The good thing about the Chinese government is, there's less talk and more action on measures to counter global warming. And really, once it's decided it's implemented the next day. 

carli_beeli

Aside from making a statement a week ago that China would reduce CO2 levels by 'a measureable amount' by 2020 (no specifics were given as to how or how much), what other significant measures have been taken? Could you given an example of a specific global warming policy that China implemented 'the next day'?

I don't believe any country has made a policy to 'counter' global warming. At best today's policies will delay warming by a number of years.

go_manly

http://cleantech.com/news/4310/new-solar-subsidies-china-set-reduc

Also, today on CCTV4 I saw Shenrong Shi (the CEO of Suntech, the largest solar panel manufacturer in China and probably in the world) sitting right next to Hu Jintao during a photo session.

Besides BYD (Build your dreams) is set to be the largest manufacturer of electric autos. (Warren Buffet is a major shareholder there)