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Upper Intermediate - Drinking Ability

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Lesson Information
Hosts: Jenny,  John
ID: 0643
Difficulty: Upper Intermediate
Published: September 19, 2007
Topics: people, business, ability
Functions: cause_and_effect
Grammar: 何止 (hézhǐ)
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Discussion

Due to an extra-smart poddie's recent uber-technical diagnosis of why Asians turn red whilst drinking, there is no need for further racial alcohol-tolerance profiling here at ChinesePod. As a postscript to that, listen in to this podcast to learn how to rate your own drinking prowess in Mandarin Chinese, and to find out that, yes, there are people in the world who don't think baijiu tastes like formaldehyde.

Comments (38) RSS

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kaisa says
Wow, I'm first! So John, could it be Ken you are not mentioning ;) -Kaixin
September 18, 2007 from the Web.
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johnrash says
Why does this sound a little like an episode of THE OFFICE?
September 18, 2007 from the Web.
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Kyle says
Great lesson. Maybe it's just the Asian women who can't drink? I've seen a few Chinese men who can drink us westerners under the table.
September 18, 2007 from the Web.
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alexco says
我记得时候在中国发酒疯。中国人认为外国人发酒疯了吗？
September 18, 2007 from the Web.
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billybobjoebobwilly says
I find it interesting to see the differences in culture when learning a language. When I teach English or visit the local English corner the conversations strive towards being highly intellectual with fantastic vocabulary (sometimes poorly used) while the west seems to focus on Drinking, bars, and soap operas.
September 18, 2007 from the Web.
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chinkerfly says
To Billybobjoebobwilly Could it be possible that language level has something to do with it? From my experience at English corners highly intellectual conversations only took place if the people involved were at a very advanced level. Lower level participants stuck with hobbies, food, travel. If you glance at the break down of lessons on Chinesepod you should notice the same trend. The advanced and media lessons cover a very wide range of intellectual topics with very specialized vocabulary.
September 18, 2007 from the Web.
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chinkerfly says
从我个人的经验谈好像在中国所有的领导都是海量。会不会是因为能喝酒就能得到好关系？ 反正我是个女孩子，去聚会的时候不但没有人跟我拼酒而且很多时候一点酒都不让我喝。所以从我来中国的时候我的酒量变得越来越差。真可惜！
September 18, 2007 from the Web.
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wildyaks says
chinkerfly, 我也是女孩子， 但我和领导在一起吃饭没办法， 要喝酒，而且要喝很多。我和你同意，和领导喝酒是为了关系。
September 18, 2007 from the Web.
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changye says
公安局刚才打电话来说 外事科科长今晚过生日。 我和老板当然只好参加 宴会吃吃喝喝地祝贺他。 我平时基本上只喝啤酒、 夏天喝扎啤比什么都好。 中国的白兰地也挺不错、 但是偶尔尝一尝就行了。 喝酒提高我的语言能力、 微醉的时候说得最流利。 我考汉语水平考试的话、 一定带百威啤酒去考场。
September 18, 2007 from the Web.
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ccclim says
I know this is “only a lesson in learning Chinese”. However, many these days would regard this lesson as “socially irresponsible”, as it, perhaps subtly, helps to spread what the drinks industry would really like us to believe; that is: drinking is fun and a “good drinker” is something to be proud of.
September 18, 2007 from the Web.
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wildyaks says
"Unfortunately" this is an important part of culture in many parts of China. Because of what ccclim says I once considered "taking a vow" (that's the only way around here, to have religious reasons) to not have to join into this drinking. The lesson is very much in place, though. Because if you live and work in China, you have to find your answers how to deal with this social drinking... And to have some vocab helps.
September 18, 2007 from the Web.
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Kyle says
Not to mention that (perhaps more so here in the East than in the West) going out for drinks is a very important factor in negotiating and "sealing the deal" in the business environment.
September 19, 2007 from the Web.
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danjo says
A student of mine, referring to an ambitious classmate: "Solomon is very good at drinking. He will make a good Party leader." I think it is very difficult to spend any amount of time in China and claim that talking about drinking is irrelevant to the culture or language. It is different from that in the West but China has a HUGE drinking culture. As a teacher at a university in China I also strongly disagree that class and English corner are by nature intellectual; my students' favorite topics are more along the lines of delicious food and boyfriends and this has struck me as the norm.
September 19, 2007 from the Web.
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billybobjoebobwilly says
danjo, I guess it depends on the age, location and group at that time. My English corner is right next to a Language University who's students study for translations and international affairs. In addition, the older, self study speakers also "Strive" for higher level language. I've never had topics of boyfriends and delicious food, or bar talk. Guess it depends on location, age, and environment.
September 19, 2007 from the Web.
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greggygate says
When I was leading English Corners (with University students at a not-so-great University, I had to improvise and find things to discuss that piqued the students' interest. This was incredibly difficult to do and usually led us to pop music or "what it's like in America."
September 19, 2007 from the Web.
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rich says
I haven't heard the lesson yet, but just wanted to ask who was the poddie that had a theory on why Chinese so easily turn red when they drink (they sure are here when they visit the pubs in Edinburgh) and where was that comment made? Just curious....
September 19, 2007 from the Web.
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clarencecct says
OK, so I'm slightly concerned that the poddie in question might actually have been me, in response to one of the Dear Amber shows. What did they say in the email? "Extra-smart" and "uber-technical"? Yeah, must have been me alright.... ha ha. Incidentally, at the risk of further propagating this (wholly inaccurate, of course) geeky image, it's not my theory, it's well recognized in genetics. See, e.g., http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aldehyde_dehydrogenase OK, I'll stop now.....
September 19, 2007 from the Web.
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TaiPan says
Rich, Read the thread of Dear Amber #1. TianFeng has researched the "Asian Flush" with extremely informative results... or you can subscribe to Eileen's theory of increased blood flow in the show.
September 19, 2007 from the Web.
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tianfeng says
One thing that is still open for discussion in all the research I did was why? I found two theories of possible in Sharon Moalem’s book Survival of the Sickest: a Medical Maverick Discovers Why We Need, he contends that it is that the difference between populations method used for water purification methods that caused the genetic intolerance for alcohol. He suggested that traditionally, Asian populations boiled their water to make tea as a way of making it potable. On the other hand, European societies used a process of fermentation to create a liquid that would be free of bacteria and could even be mixed with water as a purifier. He further contended that historically “there was evolutionary pressure in Europe to have the ability to drink, break down, and detoxify alcohol, while the pressure in Asia was a lot less.” This theory at first seems logical, but by looking at it closer, it looks as if it is based more on a simple cultural comparison than on scientific fact. Although he might be right, it is hard to neglect the fact that all Asian cultures had a process of rice fermentation and their own types of alcohol. If half of the people had the ALDH2*2 allele than it would have been strange for them to establish a drinking culture at all. The strength of the “evolutionary pressure” is also questionable and he provides no evidence to back it up. In no other articles was there any collaboration of his theory nor did he cite where he obtained this information. I am more inclined to learn toward this second theory. Raymond J. Peterson of Pennsylvania State University proposed another way to approach this. In his graduate thesis, Peterson contends that given the principals of natural selection, why would a dominant genetic trait that produced toxins in the body survive? There was selective pressure on a population, but that pressure was in Asia and not in Europe and the rest of the world. Increased levels of toxins in the body might have been chosen because they would work to fight off certain types of parasites in the host’s body. That would have been something that would be to the advantage of the people possessing it. There for it would follow the rules of natural selection. Although neither of these theories are more than just speculation, Peterson’s seems to be more likely. Peterson localized his theory to a change in the Asian population over time, rather than a series of alcohol tolerances that were built up everywhere else in the world except in fifty percent of Asia. There are probably a lot more theories out there but I found this topic fascinating. If you are Asian and have this problem, when someone starts badgering you to drink and you recited this back to them they quickly change their tune. Or they will just think, "damn girl I just offered to buy you a drink, I didn't want a genetics lesson."
September 19, 2007 from the Web.
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wildyaks says
not very convining those theories, are they? And how do they explain that some Asian cannot cope with diary products? Or how to explain that Han Chinese and Koreans seem to have proportionally more problems adapting to high altitude?
September 19, 2007 from the Web.
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huruyibeijing says
hen hao nimen shou de dou budui 皇帝
September 21, 2007 from the Web.
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henning says
Exercise #1, No 8: The two Sentences are identical.
September 21, 2007 from the Web.
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azerdocmom says
What does "bu2 hui4 chi1 ni3 de tou4 fu3" mean? The male co-worker says it regarding the drunken boss.
September 21, 2007 from the Web.
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man2toe says
不過你別怕，他不會吃你豆腐的- Good question Doc. Cpod opened a small can of worms with this sentence. I going to let them answer your question, and boy am I looking forward to see how it's answered. :) This one needs to be handle with some touch.
September 21, 2007 from the Web.
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mingyuebaba says
Please follow this lesson up with a session on nifty language to help one avoid too many toasts. Baijiu isn't bad for the first 10 or so toasts, but things get messy after that. Now what about that tofu?
September 22, 2007 from the Web.
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mingyuebaba says
Here's a timely article I just found. http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/china/2007/09/chinas-stiffest.html If you have time and interest, read further about their story.
September 22, 2007 from the Web.
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user28541 says
I would be interested in hearing more about the origin and usage of 他不会吃你豆腐的. If not here, in another lesson.
September 23, 2007 from the Web.
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henning says
Clever interlinking of lessons: http://chinesepod.com/learnchinese/eating-tofu/
September 23, 2007 from the Web.
Avatar Team
amber says
AZERDocMom and user28541, Yes, please see Henning's link above, the perfect explanation to your question about the meaning of: 他不会吃你豆腐的. (Tā bù huì chī nǐ dòufu de..)
September 23, 2007 from the Web.
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chinkerfly says
There's no telling if anyone will see this comment considering how long this thread has been dead, but I was wondering if there is a lesson on making toasts. 我每次要请酒的时候只会说得很简单。比如说“多谢您们的交代” or just lamely mumbling 谢谢 over and over. I'd like to learn a few impressive ones to toss out at banquets.
October 7, 2007 from the Web.
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josht77 says
the first time i heard the 吃豆腐 comment was when i was getting on a bus after work, then one of my students said in English "don't let any girls eat your tofu" everyone laughed and i got on the bus wondering what the hell she was talking about. later i figured it out. and the moral of the story is... chinglish is sweet!
October 17, 2007 from the Web.
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amber says
Hi chinkerfly, Yes, there is this lesson on Simple Toasts
October 17, 2007 from the Web.
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julesong says
I do hope that sometime there will be lessons for those who do not or cannot drink, either needing to keep consumption small or cannot drink alcohol at all, and how to deal with that socially.
February 15, 2008 from the Web.
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julesong says
Also, there has been quite a bit of investigation medically as to alcohol tolerance, and there's evidence that genetic factors definitely come into play. It seems that the longer a culture has had alcohol, the better the tolerance.
February 15, 2008 from the Web.
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mikeinewshot says

Just some of the words from the discussion - I hope they are correct:

究竟 jiū jìng after all (when all is said and done) / actually / outcome / result
重复 chóng fù to repeat / to duplicate / CL: 個｜个
胆子 dǎn zi courage / nerves
勇气 yǒng qì courage / valour
英雄 yīng xióng hero / CL: 個｜个
西洋 xī yáng the West / Europe / the Pacific (West from China)
烈 liè ardent / intense / fierce / stern / upright / to give one's life for a noble cause / exploits / achievements
干邑 Gān yì Cognac / brandy 白蘭地｜白兰地 from the Cognac region of southwest France
功劳 gōng láo contribution / meritorious / credit
成就 chéng jiù accomplishment / success / attain a result / achievement / CL: 個｜个
控制 kòng zhì control / to exercise control over / to contain
表现 biǎo xiàn to show / to show off / to display / to manifest / expression / manifestation / show / display / performance (at work etc)
行为 xíng wéi action / conduct / behaviour / activity
偏见 piān jiàn prejudice
欺负 qī fu to bully
痛苦 tòng kǔ pain / suffering / painful / CL: 個｜个

I couldn't work out what Jenny said at about 10 mins 17 secs.  Something like "zhege shiqing gaoqingchule jiu xingle".

At about 13:20 she said: bizhi ni he?

July 6, 2009 from the Web.
Avatar Team
helenshen_counselor says

@mike, at 10mins 17secs, Jenny said, "这个事情搞清楚就行了，那么就不需要用这个..词语来表示方向，因为你可以听得懂。" "zhèige shìqing gǎo qīngchǔ jiù xíngle，nàme jiù bùxū yào yòng zhèige..cíyǔ lái biǎoshì fāngxiàng，yīnwèi nǐ kěyǐ tīngdédǒng". And at 13:20, she said: 逼着你喝，bī zhe nǐ hē, force somebody to drink

July 6, 2009 from the Web.
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mikeinewshot says

shenyajin

Many thanks.  It was the gao that I didn't get - I suppose I thought it was 高.  I now understand!  She is saying that in this situation you don't have to use a word like 从 to express who is inheriting from whom as you can understand from the context.

In the second case, I think I thought it was 必。 I still don't hear the tones right all the time...

July 6, 2009 from the Web.
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zuoyilong says

From my personal experience, I have found that both Chinese and Americans both have very low alcohol tolerance...

Maybe it is as julesong says, and that cultural experience of alcohol increases the resistance, but I'm not so sure. The Chinese invented Whisky, so why is it that the Scots can drink oh so much more of it?

Only personal experience (and no offence meant) but I find that people of Celtic backgrounds (Irish, Scottish, and Welsh) can drink far more than American and Asian drinkers.

Take tonight as an example. I just left a small private party, and am barely tipsy. The American (who has 3 times the body mass of me) is vomiting, and the Chinese (admittedly female and smaller than me) is crying and professing her love whilst begging me not to leave....

I have seen this pattern many times now. Even at official functions, where Chinese go to the ce suo and forcibly vomit in order to keep up.

It must have something to do with genetics, and I most certainly believe that nobody can keep up with the Celtic stock in this area.

Is that a thing to be proud of? Probably not, but in many Chinese circles they seem to really appreciate your 'strength'. Knowing when to draw the line is key to the best relationship. Drinking a government official under the table gives them bad face. Just pretend that you're as drunk as they are, and draw the line at 'equals', and you're all set to make a good impression.

June 2, 2010 from the Web.

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