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Lesson Introduction
Due to the bill-snatching prowess of the Chinese, you may find yourself at a disadvantage when it comes to tactical check-paying maneuvers, post-dinner. Listen to this podcast and learn how mobilize for the battle of the tab, in Mandarin. Of course, that being said, we all know we’re glad they’re paying--but you've got to at least put up the appearance of a good fight.
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luobinzhenmei says
Hey, our trick WAS to pretend to go to the bathroom and then pay the bill. Now everyone will know. Thanks a lot, Chinesepod (sarcasm). We've tried saying we are our guests' parents and ought to pay, that our children are not filial if they let us lose face. That only works if one has gray hair, and then it doesn't always.October 9, 2007
changye says
What a GREAT LESSON! This is definitely the most useful lesson I’ve ever learned in Chinesepod. Today’s dialogue is full of practical expressions. You must memorize all of them if you come to China. My boss often treats me to lunch or dinner and usually doesn’t let me pay the bill for them. I will try to use the tactics I learned here after checking if my credit cards are still valid.October 9, 2007
jennyzhu says
It seems like life here revolves around political considerations of who to eat with and where at.October 9, 2007
artkho says
Bazza's going to be disappointed; Jenny's going to insist on going dutch. ;-)October 9, 2007
billybobjoebobwilly says
I find it somewhat difficult when with those who will fight for the bill. It's too complicated. I'd rather just go A-A (going dutch). Much simpler and you can really enjoy the company (not like you 'owe' someone a dinner so they invite you out to receive it? ugghh)October 9, 2007
oneringtorulethemall says
Paying for dinner is a sign of respect, of friendship. If you treat someone and then expect someone to treat you in return, it's flawed and pointless. Then you get in this ''I give you this but you must give me this in return'' and then it's worse than going dutch, it's trading in a hypocrite way. I quite simply hate it when people go: ''Ok, you had a glass of juice but I had a sip, so I should pay you half a yuan. Ok who ate the most bread, you should pay most.'' It drives me nuts. I try to pay most of the time but wil gladly accept if someone chooses to treat me. It makes me happy to pay for dinner and I don't expect people to thank me for it. Would anyone reassure me and tell me that they also enjoy treating the people they care about without any further hidden agendas?October 9, 2007
marygrace says
(1) I like to pay the bill when I can use my credit card and get frequent flier miles. So how do you say, "Do you accept American Express"? (2) Do you think it's fair to say that if a friend treats you twice, then it's your turn to treat? (3) Are some people always supposed to treat? (4) If I know I can't treat, then I bring a gift for my host. :)October 9, 2007
danjo says
one ring to rule the mall (i am a lotr fan but i decided it's funnier written out that way), When I go out to dinner with Chinese friends they are generally students, and I assure you there is no hidden agenda. I actually don't like to do it much because they are uncomfortable with me paying all the time but I am uncomfortable with them paying due to their severe lack of money. But they want to pay simply because we are friends. Well, there was one student in danger of failing with a not-so-hidden agenda but he still got the (barely passing) grade he deserved.October 9, 2007
oneringtorulethemall says
I feel the same way, danjo. I seldom let my students pay for anything. Considering how well off the foreigners are in China compared to the students, it would be unacceptable, morally speaking. Thank you for sharing, I was getting worried here!;-)October 9, 2007
Kyle says
I've been out to dinner a number of times and have yet to fight over the bill. However, about a month ago at hot pot I saw two friends actually get into a fist fight over the bill. Granted they had consumed a lot of alcohol prior, but still, a bit extreme.October 10, 2007
changye says
One of my Chinese friends, 东北男人, is working in 广东 now. He often complains that Cantonese people are very “stingy” because they like to split the bill. I always comfort him by saying in both cases, treat and going Dutch, the total amount of money he pays would eventually be the same in the long run, but he still seems to love the typical Chinese endless fighting.October 10, 2007
bazza says
artkho, if Jenny pays for a meal, I'll pay for a day trip to Beijing. ;)October 10, 2007
john says
marygrace, Good questions. Let me get right to them. (1) American Express is not really accepted in China, but if you want to try, it's called 美国运通 (Měiguó Yùntōng) in Chinese, so to ask if it's accepted you would say: 美国运通信用卡能用吗？ (Měiguó Yùntōng xìnyòngkǎ néng yòng ma?) You probably want to show them your card when you ask, though, because it's very unlikely that you'll find a place that supports Amex in China. (2) Yes, you should probably treat if you've already been treated twice, but there are really so many factors involved. Also, it's likely that there's no reason to feel bad. A particularly generous friend might be able to overcome all your protests and treat you over and over and be really happy about it. (3) Yes, some people will always be expected to treat. If a boss has a dinner for employees, the boss should pay. If people are visiting from out of town (for business or pleasure), their host should treat. And as for young people, who may be financially incapable of treating, they can usually expect to be treated as well. (4) Gifts are rarely a bad idea. :)October 10, 2007
danjo says
I asked a friend today how to say "I'll never do that again" in Chinese, a useful sentence related to this lesson's "I'll never eat with you again": 我再也不会那样做了。 So presumably "I'll never.... again" is just "我再也不。。。了". Actually just today I fought over a bill with that friend/student, but it was only 3 yuan (less than US$.50) so I let her win.October 10, 2007
bazza says
Are we likely to have problems with foreign credit/debit cards?October 10, 2007
henning says
Bazza, my German Visa 卡 worked fine for me (two Beijing restaurants + 1 Shanghai hotel).October 10, 2007
tucsonmichael says
I have also used both a Master (credit) card, and a Visa (debit) card at hotels and ATM machines and larger department and novelty stores, with no problem...ATM machine being 取款机 (withdraw money machine)。 Some smaller hotels, and most street vendors will not accept credit or debit cards :-) but there are usually 取款机 nearby.October 10, 2007
tucsonmichael says
in the expansion section, isn't this a contradiction (me treating but you paying the bill)? 我请客，你买单，怎么样？ (I'll treat, you pay the bill--what do you say?) I wish I would have had this lesson two weeks ago. I may have offended a lady friend in 石家庄 last week when leaving money with a thank you note for her after an extended visit... 不给她面子? I wanted to pay for more of our meal and ticket expenses than she allowed so I just treated this as a thank you gift for her wonderful hospitality。。。她做客做得非常好......我做错了吗？October 10, 2007
goulnik says
In France leaving money to thank s.o. for wonder hospitality would be offensive, so I would think all the more so in China. A gift would have been more appropriate me thinks....October 10, 2007
rich says
嗯，Artko，你的意思就是Bazza要Jenny买单吗？哈哈。 这个也是我的问题。生词单说“买单”这个词是动兵(V+O)，但是我以为买单就是"bill"这个名词。都是吗？October 10, 2007
rich says
哦，我也想说今年五月去上海的时候Jenny请客了，我那时想请她，但是她不让我（I didn't put up much of a fight though... I'm not a good bill fighter)。还珍惜那一杯咖啡，呵呵呵October 10, 2007
rich says
In Scotland today I went for the first time to a Chinese buffet. It was very much like American Chinese buffets and nothing like real Chinese food of course, 可是 I must have though it was Chinese enough, because I forgot to leave a tip!! (Tipping, over rated ... isn't having me pay for a $2.50 cup of weak Chinese tea pay for the guy who only took my plate one time?)October 10, 2007
MexicoBob says
In Mexico when someone never pays we refer to them as "codo". "Codo" comes from the word "codicioso" meaning greedy. Codo also means "elbow" and often times when someone is referring to a stingy person they will just point to their own elbow. Is there some type of hand signal in Chinese to indicate when someone is stingy?October 10, 2007
pulosm says
I didn't know that "codo" came from "codicioso," which to me sounds like "covetous," the only use of "codiciar" that I have really heard is in the Diez Mandamientos(Ten Commandments). ;-) Thanks for the factoid.October 10, 2007
bazza says
On the subject of tips, do hotel staff expect them in China?October 10, 2007
rich says
yeah yeah, call me Codo... I deserve it. Actually I just didn't think about it, and neither did my Taiwanese friend until after we left and realized we hadn't tipped... I am not used to tipping here, no idea what the common practice is in Scotland. Enlighten me. @ Bazza, hotel staff are more expecting tips from foreigners, but it is not a standard in China as I assume that Chinese businessmen/hotel dwellers still don't tip at all.October 10, 2007
artkho says
Bazza, Tipping did wonders for me and the few people I tipped directly took care of my needs when I was in Shanghai. ArtOctober 10, 2007
goulnik says
I hate the tipping concept, pls don't help make it spread into ChinaOctober 10, 2007
goulnik says
oops, too quick - I meant, since it's not expected why tip? you get the service by just asking, insisting, just as the Chinese do. Why tip?October 10, 2007
marygrace says
Thanks, John! :)October 10, 2007
shanyisheng says
I am going dutch most of ther time, as I am dutch. Great lesson ! (abasolutaly, as my chinese friends say). I had to use the 我去一下洗手间 trick also but it seems not to work. Good to study with Chinpod.October 10, 2007
shanyisheng says
Furhermore, about tipping, I found out several times that when I left money on the table in a restaurant, the 服务员 came after me to give me the money back. "Not our policy , sir".October 11, 2007
john says
MexicoBob, Sorry, but none of us are aware of any gesture which indicates tight-fistedness. I guess that's another reason for you to love (Mexican) Spanish. :)October 11, 2007
josht77 says
another good lesson guys one thing i found strange about paying the bill here in china is when it comes to birthdays... if its someones birthday they should pay for everything. if its one of my mates b'day i would feel weird if he/she shouted dinner and drinks. is this common all over china?October 11, 2007
pulosm says
Josh, This is common in many cultures--Filipino and Armenian are examples that come to mind.October 11, 2007
mattlosangeles says
good discussion first, tipping is tacky (i'm american and still don't like it) second, anytime you're eating with someone who earns much more or much less than you, it's awkward. there's no need to fight over the bill if you earn as much as the other....it's just easier that way. third, if alcohol is involved, it's going to get very expensive to get the bill for more than four, so split itOctober 11, 2007
mattlosangeles says
on more thing: it's good to understand the habits of different cultures, but you're not expected to always play those games. for example, an american haggling with relatives over who's going to get the bill would look silly. one of the things you bring to the table as a foreigner is your different cultural expectations. again, good to know the other side, not always a requirment that you play along. need i bring up bribes to make the point?October 11, 2007
luobinzhenmei says
The Fix seems to be cut a little short. Is there an easy way to lengthen it? We really need all The Fix we can get.October 11, 2007
jennyzhu says
josht77, Yes, it is standard for the birthday person to pay in China. Only after being exposed to Western culture did we realise what a raw deal we've been getting. But then, the Chinese rationale is what comes around goes around. All the meals one pays for will eventually even out in this lifetime.October 11, 2007
jbradfor says
Great topic! Ah, the effort I've spent trying to pay the bill with my in-laws. Usually to no avail, but the effort was appreciated. One time I did it perfectly: I grabbed the bill from the server before anyone else could, had my credit card out, ran to the counter to pay, and physically blocked them from reaching the counter. VICTORY IS MINE! The people at the table next to us were quite amused by a round-eye playing the Chinese bill-paying game. [But the irony isn't lost on me: I spent all this effort just so I could end up spending more money. What victory is that? This is one competition I'd rather lose...]October 11, 2007
riceeater says
I look on the times when those I'm with "let me" treat as them giving me face. Recently an old friend with "connections," if you know what I mean, who always insists on treating EVERYONE he sits down with, let me pay for a couple of rounds of beer at a bar we like. I was very pleased. It seemed to me a sign of our deep friendship. Among friends, paying the bill is an honor.October 12, 2007
rjlee818 says
When fighting for the bill, and you really don't want to pay, but want to appear like you want to pay, use the hand that is opposite to where you wallet is in you pants pocket and pretend that you are trying to reach across you body to the wallet, while using to your other hand to make a gesture to stop the other guy from taking out his wallet. In this way, you have a hard time reaching your wallet and your friends wallet will out before yours!October 12, 2007
pulosm says
rjlee818--that is a BRILLIANT tip. I practiced it a couple of times right now so it's refined when I need to use it.October 12, 2007
rjlee818 says
pulosm, Keep practicing because it's an art. You have to appear "agitated" and "disoriented" in the heat of battling for the bill so that the fake gesture to reach your wallet appears genuine.October 12, 2007
pulosm says
HA HA HA! I love it.October 12, 2007
wildyaks says
A skill women need as much as men. For one, when you go out with a bunch of girls, we also do the fighting, don't we? And being a (foreign) women among a mixed group of people, it's not a forgone conclusion that one of the men pays, not in my experience anywaysOctober 13, 2007
wildyaks says
Just worked through the dialogue. I have a question. Somebody can enlighten me? There is this sentence: 你都买了好几次。 What's the "dou" (all) doing here? Would there be a difference in meaning without it? I probably would have said: 你以前买了好几次。 would that be wrong?October 13, 2007
Kyle says
In this particular context it conveys the same meaning as 已经 would, and is equivalent to English's 'present perfect'. You can roughly translate the sentence as "You have already paid a bunch of times." The 都 is the "have already" part. More examples: 你怎么这么笨! 我都告诉你怎么做好这件事好几次. 你别跟我撒娇. 都告诉你我心情不好.October 14, 2007
wildyaks says
Thanks, that makes sense.October 14, 2007
bento says
I have a question about where to put "的 de" in the sentence. When John explained why one says "别听他的 biè tīng tā de" instead of "别听他 biè tīng tā" Jenny added "别听他说的 biè tīng tā shuō de", where the 的 comes after the 说. Later John gave an example "别听他的话 biè tīng tā de huà", where de comes before the 话. i don't get how to correctly place the 的 in the sentence.October 14, 2007
wildyaks says
the 的 comes before the noun - although that is sometimes omitted, as in the sentence above. 别听他说的（话). 别听他的（话）。 It goes with the noun (话) that may or may not be stated. Here the context gives you the noun, so no need to say it.October 14, 2007
dave says
I really enjoyed this lesson. Very practical.October 15, 2007
MikeInLondon says
What is the origin of the term "AA" which I understand to be what Chinese people use to describe "going dutch." How do you this phrase in context (not that I plan on using it!)? Is this an abbreviation, or is there a character associated with this, or is it just "AA?"October 17, 2007
lavandez says
At the end of the fix there is a problem it just cuts off without the last translation.October 17, 2007
trevelyan says
Not sure what the origin is, but it's just "AA" Mike.October 17, 2007
maxiewawa says
That's strange, I've heard "AA" too. The other one I've heard is "PK". When someone defeats someone else, the loser has been PK'ed.October 17, 2007
Kyle says
"PKed" when fighting for the bill? Really? PKed is a term used in the PVP (player vs. player) game world (e.g. World of Warcraft, Ultima Online, Shadowbane, etc). When one player is killed by another they've been "PKed", or "player killed".October 18, 2007
clay says
Mike in London, there are no characters for "AA", but if you want to express this in Chinese characters (and orally for that matter), then ge4fu3ge4de 各付各的 is the way to go.October 18, 2007
gregmcgrath says
I loved how the example in this lesson was the guy saying he was going to the restroom. I used to work for Oakley sunglasses as the Asia Sales Manager and I used to try that trick in nearly every country in Asia. Sometimes it worked and sometimes they knew what I was up to. The Oakley distributors I would visit across Asia paid for nearly everything so it was my tradition to try and pay for at least one meal during my visit with the team (I figured I would rack up miles on my credit card and get reimbursed when I got home anyways); however, sometimes they insisted on paying for everything. The Asian people are so hospitable and I always felt that they truly wanted me to experience a great time and eat lots of good food while in their country! I think when they see me fluent in Chinese and knowing that I am sincerely interested in them and their culture/language, etc. they were even more desirous to make sure I was happy. I remain good friends with all of them to this day. I'm going to Hong Kong and China in December! Can't wait!October 19, 2007
shanghaisean says
Great lesson. After having hundreds of business meals in China, I was amused by the accuracy. I was hoping for a credit card 'sword fight' in there too One note: 'mai dan' is written with the character for 'bury'. 埋单 (lit. bury the bill)October 22, 2007
yingying83 says
lol, it's amusing to find you talking about "PK". It's a word of high-frequency use now in China. At first it is used in the widely popular show "Supergirls'. Some say it's the Chinese version of American Idol. Anyway, the word "PK" got so popular along with the show that nowadays it is even used in business world, for instance, when a news report says two companies are pitched against each other, it often uses "PK". BTW, I've seen both "埋单" and "买单". It's O.K. for you to use either of them. Perhaps the difference depends on the area you stay in for dinner ocassions.^_^October 22, 2007
goulnik says
at the very beginning of the dialog, we hear 吃得真饱。I seem to remember being told by a Chinese friend that 吃好了 was a more elegant way of saying I'm finished eating than 吃饱了。October 25, 2007
goulnik says
also, I just noticed a typo in the transcript : 不行，这次我买定了… No, I'm definitely buying the time => this timeOctober 25, 2007
amber says
hi goulniky, You're right, 吃好了 (chī hǎole) is a little more elegant sounding! Thanks for letting us know about the typo. It's been fixed now!October 25, 2007
cashewdog says
A master at getting the bill: On several visits to Shanghai a Chinese friend and I were treated to many very nice meals by his dear family friend -- an elderly gentleman who happened to be extremely wealthy. One trick was to tip the maitre'd upon entering the restaurant; informing them that the bill should come to him. And a variant of that was to even pre-pay the bill (all or most of it) by simply handing cash (or credit card) to the head waiter. He would simply tell us "its been taken care of". It took us a while to figure out how he was doing this. He was very sly about it! But to be courteous to us, he would let us pay when we ate at normal restaurants :-) From a practical point of view, it took away any and all discussion of the bill when at an expensive restaurant. But allowed us to properly respect and thank him.October 25, 2007
goulnik says
couldn't find the expression A-A制 (A-A zhì) meaning 平分 (píngfēn), divide equally. Not in the vocab or the dictionary, though I seem to remember it being mentioned in a podcastOctober 29, 2007
renny says
2 years ago me & my Pengyou Miling went to a Chinese restaurant, & he paid i said ill pay twice but he insisted on Paying. this wouldve been good to use.November 6, 2007
rich says
In the Fix, one of the sentences is "I'll treat, you pay the bill, what do you say?" Is that like a trick question? Isn't treating paying the bill? Also, as I still have some of the picky Software QA engineer instinked in me from when I worked in California, I noticed that the FIX here doesn't have the regular little chime at the end to know it was over. Actually, while listening it to it on the phone, it ended abrumptly after Amber said a sentence in English about "being a good friend", but the translation never came. Thought I had received a message (Nokia N70 stops playing music and returns to the beginning of the song when you get a message...stupid thing). Realizing that WAS the end of the file I had, I thought maybe I didn't download the whole thing. So I checked here and while this one ends more or less after a Chinese sentence, no chime. I also couldn't find that sentence using "good friend" that was in my phone's copy! Weird! (and weird I write so much about this... ha ha... I wouldn't even write this much when using bug tracking software)November 22, 2007
rich says
I realized now that after I had downloaded the fix, the little bit on the end that was only English and no Chinese translation was cut off, and that is where the recording ends.November 28, 2007
longfei says
I would disagree with John about AMEX. It is accepted in all major hotels and upscale restaurants in the larger cities. However, I would agree that there are also many smaller, more economical places where it would be difficult to use. So, it depends to some extent if you are going on a business trip on a company expense account or are touring around on your own examining all of China's nooks and crannies (the latter being a whole lot more fun)!December 3, 2007
zaifuzhong says
What does Jenny say at the end of this lesson? I'm interpreting it as: 我是新中国的奴性，而且我很独立，所以我进是要付钱。 It's the "jin shi yao" part with which I'm having difficulty. (is it “进时要"?) Also, is there anyone else saying "结账"? A Beijing girl once taught me 结账, and told me that 买单 was originally borrowed from Cantonese, so I have been using 结账 ever since.December 18, 2007
connie says
zaifuzhong, Jenny说的是：“所以我坚持（jiānchí）要付钱。” ”结帐“和”买单“这两种说法都可以用。”买单“这个说法是从广东话来的，但是现在很多人都用。December 19, 2007
zaifuzhong says
Thanks Connie for the quick response. It makes a lot more sense now. (That's "结账", right? Not "结帐"? Or are they the same?)December 19, 2007
connie says
zaifuzhong, ”账“也可以写成”帐“。所以”结帐、“”帐单“、”帐户“等写法也是对的。December 19, 2007
jane says
June 9, 2008
Many thanks for the lesson numbers above the flash cards.
There is no sound on this lesson's flash cards and also Pop Music and Pop Culture. I am due to study these lessons at end of this week. Please rectify this as soon as possible as I want to do some work in advance.
shenhe says
July 31, 2008
Useful lesson. Yesterday, I had a little quarrel over a taxi. Could I have said 我先来的，你凭什么跟我争？ If not, what would have been the correct retort?
amber says
July 31, 2008
hi shenhe,
Yes, that would be correct to say!
calicartel says
December 18, 2008
Words I checked, without guarantee:
jweissgerber says
June 12, 2009
In the expansion:
保证把你吃撑。
What is the function/meaning of 把 ?
Thanks
pearltowerpete says
June 12, 2009
Hi jweissgerber
Good question. This is a little difficult to explain briefly here. Please check out the Qing Wen on 把.
If you have more specific questions after that, please send me a personal message or leave a post on the discussion boards.
changye says
June 12, 2009
Hi jweissgerber
The "Qing Wen" pete has shown is really worth visiting. In the case of 保证把你吃撑, the function of the 把 is similar to that of "make" in "make you feel full", for example. Actually things are a little more complicated, so please click the link!
jweissgerber says
June 13, 2009
To Pete, Connie, Jenny and Changye:
很有用。谢谢你们的助力。
jweissgerber says
June 22, 2009
So what is the difference between "treating" and "paying the bill" (in expansion)???
shenyajin says
June 22, 2009
Is it this one " I'll treat, you pay the bill--what do you say?" I think it's a Chinese saying, "我请客，你掏钱", it is, most of the time, in an amusing and humorous way, of course, we're never serious about that!
pearltowerpete says
June 22, 2009
Hi jweissgerber,
In addition to shenyajin's funny explanation, let me add that in English, there is no difference between the two. If I treat you to dinner, I'll pay the bill. The Chinese sentence in the expansions is just a joke.