Freckles are not considered attractive or cute in China. That's another western idea they don't get.

I didn't say it, but the beaches i've been to, the Chinese were relatively tan already. Plus, I would agree that I haven't seen much in the way of laying out a towel and just sitting there soaking up sun. This is why I didn't think the sunscreen issue was prevalent, but as I said, it might be that I don't go to the beaches where the wealthy hang out. I haven't seen a jet-ski in China either, but it's cool to learn how to say it. There are plenty of jet-skis on lots of lakes/rivers back in the US.

约翰宇航员听起来不错，呵呵

For me this sounds a very authentic dialogue.  I don't get round to complimenting ChinesePod on the lesson content much so this is an excellent opportunity.  I wonder if Connie authored it?  (As ChinesePod is not keen on crediting writers we can only speculate.)  If it was written by a foreigner they have a good feel for Chinese culture.  

That said, I know what is meant above about some things being a little 'foreign' to China, eg. soft, fine sand.  I have been on a few Chinese beaches and this is not common.  Actually, I visualise the dialogue being set in foreign climes - Thailand, Bali or even Australia. Chinese tourists like these places more and more.  

Good work ChinesePod, liked it a lot.  

PS. There is quite a bit of 防晒油 (sunscreen) around but getting it without whitener is difficult.  Also, generally the sunscreen factor is low compared to that commonly sold in Australia. 

On Hong Kong Island, on the other hand, I've seen plenty of the younger generation out tanning on beach towels.

2. If the current prevalent attitude of wealthy, lighter skinned Chinese is to be out of the sun because the less wealthy/worker types are out in the sun, then they have something to look forward to. My sense is that avoiding the sun was the attitude in the US during the 1910s-1930s for the same reason (workers must work outdoors in the sun, wealthy spend their leisure time indoors being waited on). Then what happened is that the prevaling trend became "I have so much money, I can afford to spend my leisure time outdoors traveling, going to the beach, on sidewalk cafes and so on". Tans appeared a sign of wealth especially as the US moved toward a service economy, and the knowledge workers moved indoors and became more pale. This is at least one non-sociologist's theory of anthropological evolution.

In Chinese, we have a saying "一白遮三丑”(yī bái zhē sān chǒu). Literally means "the white and fair skin can overshadow three ugly deformities." So a plain-looking girl can be considered pretty if she has pale skin. On the contrary, if a girl has pretty eyes, cute nose and lips, but has dark skin or freckles, then not many people would appreciate her beauty.

我把防晒霜忘在 宾馆了.

What is the justification/rule for using the ba in this case?

http://chinesepod.com/lessons/the-magic-word-把

But I rather detest the idea that some natural skin colors are ugly and some are beautiful. I don't want to sound ultra PC, but it is close-minded at best, and extremely offensive, possibly racist, at worst.

I did go to a public pool in Beijing once when I lived there. All of the Chinese people there were crazy tan and had many tatoos.

你现在决定说北京话儿了吗？  除了北京以外没听到一个人说玩儿。 :)

Anyway, I'm at risk of dragging this completely off topic, so I'll stop there and get back to catching up on my backlog of Intermediate lessons. Chris

I actually agree with you one hundred percent if the personal preference is based solely, or at least reasonably so, on one person's personal conclusion. The problem is when a personal opinion comes about through heavy cultural reinforcement. When it comes to pure aesthetics, especially regarding people's appearance, people should be taught to like what they like, not like something because that's what everyone else thinks, or worse, because it is self-evident. I have raised the possibility of racism here but haven't gone so far as unequivocally accuse anyone of it. However, some anecdotal evidence I have come across is not so positive.

Tattoos (and body piercings) would make a good lesson. In the meantime...

tattoo 纹身

to tattoo sth on sth 将某物纹刺在某处

body piercing 穿体装饰

nose ring 鼻环

context - yǔ​jìng​ - 语境

to avoid - bì​miǎn​ - 避免

Pretty interesting that 模糊 (mo2hu) means both vague, ambiguous and also fuzzy, like when the subject in a photo is out of focus.

“我来了”有没有英文用的。。。。做爱说的。。。"I'm coming"。。。的意思？

Males in Japan often seem quite a bit darker than females, though. Gender roles seems to be a big part of it.

Can you use 留 / liú (leave) to express the same thing here? Or must you use 忘 ?

i.e. 我把防晒霜留在 宾馆了

留 doesn't have the meaning of "forget". If you use 留，it sounds like you put it in the hotel on purpose."

That's interesting that you wouldn't say you "forgot something (in/at/on) somewhere". I've always used this pattern. Out of curiosity, I've been asking American friends and colleagues and I can't seem to find one that thinks it's strange and/or doesn't use it.

At the very least, it's helpful in understanding how "忘"(在什么地方) can be used in Chinese. :)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/8581420@N08/sets/72157624212754861/

The sand was very red and fine. No one was "sunning". It was beautiful though.

I'd love to know what the weird carts were though.

Must be a Michigan thing :-) To forget is a mental activity not a physical act. It happens in your head, not at the hotel. To forget something at the hotel would mean that while you were sitting at the hotel this thing slipped your mind. It just doesn't sound right to me. Perhaps there is a grammatical explanation re the resultant of this kind of verb or something but I don't have time to look it up right now. Maybe John can help us out here, he's the linguist. It just sets off my bad English detector. I have to agree with GM, it sounds like the person is young, uneducated, (or from Michigan?) Ok, I apologize, since we are not football fans we don't need to play these games. Although after trying to watch the world cup, I have a renewed respect for American football. Soccer is just so ....... I cant say it here. I will be misunderstood.

No swimmers - maybe there needs to be a critical mass before they want to go in? Or .. many Chinese adults have never learned to swim - that reduces the likelihood of people getting in the water. I remember watching people in the water at Leshan - almost everyone, all adults, used some kind of floatie (basic life preserver.)

4. forget - leave behind unintentionally; "I forgot my umbrella in the restaurant"

So, in the end, I guess it just depends on who you ask.

I do recall my first ever Mandarin textbooks teaching me this:

哎呀，太可惜！

Damn, what a great pity!

Because of that crazy translation, I refused for the longest time to say 哎呀 and 太可惜.

...well I don't think I've struck any of it yet,but for the times you are in English I sure wish you'd start. Could be fun....fun with the teach

..maybe,maybe not...but if so you may learn us something ;)

I have been known to say "howdy" and "y'all" and the such

...that's great. Seems classic to an Aussie like me. Is that [?still] common these days? I have the feeling it's regional and more common in the mid-west [or south ?].

http://znakomi.com/4user/Rose4mmm/Misc/Howdy-Doody.jpg

....I guess he was a bit before your time ,but did you catch him on the re-runs?

From a linguistic perspective, it's about observation. Language changes. The question isn't, "is it right or wrong?" but "do people say this?" The former question is impossible to answer, but the latter can be empirically investigated, either by researching in a standard corpus of English, or, more informally, by a Google search.

Of course, if you're doing a Google search, you might want to limit your search to the more respected content publishers online, for example the New York Times. I couldn't find this pattern there, but a A quick search shows that the "forget X at home" example, at least, is all over the internet.

To me this indicates a relatively new usage perhaps not yet accepted by mainstream media, so it's not surprising that some native speakers find it strange.

here is a sample question from the ESL/EFL test showing that "left" is the correct answer as opposed to "forgot" my keys in the door.

http://www.english-test.net/forum/ftopic12067.html#i_left_my_keys_vs_i_forgot_my_keys

ESL/EFL Test #136 "How to make exclamations", answer 2

How stupid can I get! I left my keys in the door overnight.

Correct answer: (d) left

Your answer was: incorrect:

How stupid can I get! I forgot my keys in the door overnight.

_________________________

Why can't i use forgot here?.........

I don't like Google searches as a research method though, not unless they prove my point of view. :)

Call it what you like, but in this case, it's scientific! The scientist observes and learns; he doesn't try to "correct" that which he is observing. This is true for physics as well as linguistics.

"Hippie linguistics"... this is an idea worth pondering. :)

In 2010, male "hosts" working in nightclubs that cater to women who have more money than they know what to do with are one type often maintaining a tan. As with the gangro girls (see pic posted by XiaoLiang), their tans are not from the sun but from tanning salons. Sorry this is a stereotype, but this leads me to conclude that tanning machines may fry your brains ...

The gangros and hosts are not mainstream by any means: it's all sub-culture stuff.

Ask anyone in product development or marketing at any major cosmetics company if Japanese women (yes you're right about gender) prefer fair complexions. Cosmetics purporting to lighten sun spots and freckles or "brighten" your face only have a significant market in East Asia including Japan; at the same time this 美白 market is enormous.

did Japanese in Hawaii ever have an influence here?

...there seem to be a couple of messages people get about tanned skin....associated with manual work [viewed negatively] ..and associated with a life of liesure [potentially think of wealthy with ample liesure time to go yachting,hang around resorts on holidays,,deng deng...viewed positively]

Bottom line with Japanese women's current (because we have hindsight now, have experimented with tanning when it was in fashion, and have seen what it seems to do to people once they're older) attitude on tanning and beauty--may be fine while you're young, but you'll pay the price later on (= extremely unwise).

jijinfrance says further up this subthread: In Chinese, we have a saying "一白遮三丑”(yī bái zhē sān chǒu). Literally means "the white and fair skin can overshadow three ugly deformities." ... We feel the same way: 色の白いは七難隠す iro no shiro-i wa shichi-nan kakusu. Fairness is considered so desirable as to get people to overlook as many as seven flaws!

While with fair skin you probabaly can afford a place to stay out of the sun and probably afford to stay pale by buying certain whitening prodicts and probably afford to hire people to do the hard work for you. So in other words, you're not poor.

Correct me if I'm wrong.