URLLesson Introduction
"So, I’m on the first tee with him. I give him the driver. He hauls off and whacks one - big hitter, the Lama... " If Carl the grounds-keeper can make it down to China to play a round of golf, so can you. But you'll need the lingo, and that is where we come in. After this lesson, you'll be equipped to tell one of your three caddies when you want the driver or the iron, in Mandarin. So you've got that goin’ for ya, which is nice.
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chanelle77 says
July 12, 2008
Great! I was waiting for this one! Perfect lesson for a "lazy expat wife" ;-).
I was playing golf in Nanjing and the caddies could speak some German! That was a bit of a surprise...
kesirui says
July 12, 2008
I thought there were no golf courses in China?
chanelle77 says
July 12, 2008
Hi Kesirui, here in Nanjing are several courses and driving ranges available. I think pretty much the same for similar and bigger cities in China. Personally, I think the (service)quality is also quite good compared to Europe. Unfortunately as mentioned in the dialogue it is quite expensive. On the bright side though, we bought some "nice new knock-off Callaways" in Shanghai last weekend.
dongni says
July 13, 2008
When I learned 'golf' previously it was listed in all my textbooks as 'gāoěrfūqiú'. Is this wrong? Or perhaps a more formal less commonly used way of saying golf?
eyux says
July 13, 2008
The tones on gao1er3fu1 are shaped like a cross-section of the green: level on either side with a hole in the middle.
rich says
July 13, 2008
So, like, if memory serves me right, wasn't Bazza the one (maybe of many) who was asking for a 高尔夫球 lesson? Now he got it. Haven't listened to it yet... is he in the dialog? 哈哈
zhanglihua says
July 13, 2008
There's a small mistake is the expansion section: 你喜欢打网球吗？ should be translated as "Do you like to play tennis?", not golf.
@dongni 高尔夫球 is the correct term, but 高尔夫 is commonly used.
The intonation of the speakers was very funny.
Personally, I'm not too fond of golf. It is a very slow game and does not involve a high level of physical effort. Due to the high price, it is only played by kids with rich parents, successful businesspeople and expats.
pcmi says
July 13, 2008
Ken kept translating "我造就告诉过你了" as the question "Didn't I already tell you?". Isn't this sentence a statement rather than a question? And what is the difference between this and "我造就告诉过你"? Doesn't the 过 already specify that the verb has already occurred?
bazza says
July 13, 2008
Some more vocab:
挥杆 huīgān - swing
发球区 fāqiúqū - teeing ground
球座 qiúzuò - tee
球道 qiúdào - fairway
长草区 chángcǎoqū - rough
沙坑 shākēng - bunker
水障碍 shuǐzhàng'ài - water hazard
果岭 guǒlǐng - green
旗 qí - flag
billm says
July 13, 2008
Another famous line from Caddyshack is: "Be the ball, Danny".
I think a similar questions came up on anther lesson. How would it translate to Chinese?
成为这个球, Danny.
cheng2wei2 zhe4 ge4 qiu2, Danny.
Does this make any sense in Chinese.
matthewg says
July 13, 2008
I've got the same question as pcmi above. Why are both guo and le used in the same sentence. This seems redundant. Is it simply done for emphasis? Might make for a good QW episode.
sushan says
July 13, 2008
Would do it even more simply. 成为球 - cheng2wei2 qiu2.
This lesson was great, so was Sound Check. Lots of contextual clues for new vocab, good explanations and repetitions of new material without making it monotonous. I passed Elementary some time ago but these lessons are well worth a listen; whoever is working on this level these days is doing some good work.
vann0000 says
July 13, 2008
The largest golf course in the world is in Guangdong. It has an amazing number of holes. It is on a beautiful gentling rolling countryside.
Mission Hills Golf Club: Huge resort anchors booming China links scene
By Brandon Tucker,
Staff Writer
Is the golf industry experiencing a slowdown? Maybe in North America. But Asia doesn't want to hear it.
Golf in Asia has benefited hugely from the continent's emergence in the global market. Corporations from around the world are bringing their business - and their golfing personnel - to the Far East, and world-class luxury golf resorts are sprouting up from Vietnam to Thailand.
No country has made a bigger splash in global capitalism, or global golf, than China. Exhibit A is the massive Mission Hills Golf Club in Shenzhen, a half-hour drive from Hong Kong. With 10 golf courses open and two more nearing completion, Mission Hills is the largest golf complex in the world, according to the Guinness Book of World Records.
The $625 million development is spread out over 15 square kilometers, leaving plenty of room for more superlatives: the world's largest pro shop, the world's largest outdoor kids' playground, Asia's biggest tennis complex (51 courts). There are six driving ranges, and the main clubhouse measures 300,000 square feet.
The big numbers continue off course. The Mission Hills complex features four spas, a 315-room five-star hotel and two luxury residential communities, plus, not surprisingly, ample conference and function space for conventions and business events.
Schmidt-Curley: The architects behind Mission Hills golf
Mission Hills' courses bear the imprimaturs of a dozen top designers and PGA Tour professionals from nine countries, including China's Zhang Lian Wei. But behind the names stands one design firm: Arizona-based Schmidt-Curley.
"Not only is Mission Hills big, the process of putting the course down on that ground was a huge achievement," partner Brian Curley told WorldGolf.com. "We had to move mountains, literally. It wasn't like plotting a course through dunes."
Curley said the firm did what it could to minimize redundancy among the property's 12 courses.
"The most obvious differences between the courses would be in the bunker styles," he said. "The environment itself at Mission Hills, with dense jungle, heavy trees - that's consistent from course to course. The backdrops and frames are mostly the same.
"We try and bust it up with landscaping, different grass types, tee shapes and bunker themes."
Mission Hills has been the site of more than 30 international tournaments, including the 1995 World Cup of Golf and the Tiger Woods China Challenge. The Jose Maria Olazabal course is set to host the Omega World Golf Championships through 2018.
Mission Hills Golf Club
No. 1 Mission Hills Road
Shenzhen, China
Web: MissionHillsGroup.com
The Olazabal is the resort's longest course at 7,400 yards, but it's the Greg Norman - densely tree-lined and featuring a rugged look reminiscent of Royal Melbourne in Australia - that has garnered a reputation as perhaps Asia's most difficult golf course.
More player-friendly designs include the David Leadbetter, David Duval and Annika Sorenstam courses. The Ernie Els and Jumbo Ozaki courses are outfitted with floodlights that allow play until 2 a.m.
The final two courses, the Pete Dye and a par-3 course, are slated to open this summer, rounding out the complex's 216 holes.
artkho says
July 13, 2008
When I first heard the dialogue, I immediately translated 木杆 to wood. So I was surprised to hear Ken translate it to driver. Then I thought about it and realized that the guy was about to tee off, so there was no need to say 一号木杆 to specify the driver.
garry says
July 13, 2008
zhang lihua,
I was reading your comment today and I found that when I moved the cursor over '你喜欢打网球吗？', the pronounciation and meaning came up in a yellow box. Wouldn't it be great if this happened with everybody's comments written in Chinese.
Thanks everyone, though I am not a golf player, I enjoy the dialogue.
richwarm2 says
July 13, 2008
I was not quite satisfied with Ken's explanation of 早就 in
我早就告诉过你了
"I told you so."
Wenlin gives "long since" or "long ago," which is not quite right in this context, since the caddy had only just offered his advice, but CC-CEDICT says "already at an earlier time," which I think helped me to understand the construction.
I think the first character of 造就 (in pcmi's comment above) should be 早, shouldn't it?
Here are some example sentences using 早就, from jukuu.com, a site well worth checking out. I had to add the pinyin myself. (Wenlin makes it easy, though.)
He has already been told, so our comments are superfluous.
早就有人同他说过，所以我们的意见是多余的。
Zǎojiù yǒurén tóng tā shuō guò，suǒyǐ wǒmen de yìjian shì duōyú de.
He'd clean forgotten about it.
这事他早就扔在脖子后边了。
Zhè shì tā zǎojiù rēng zài bózi hòubian le.
He had learned to despise technical dexterity.
他早就懂得轻视技巧的娴熟。
Tā zǎojiù dǒngde qīngshì jìqiǎo de xiánshú.
bingge says
July 13, 2008
可不可以只说，“我告诉过你了”？为什么用“早就”？
可不可以说，“我已经告诉过你了”？意思一样吗？
richwarm2 says
July 13, 2008
Can anyone confirm that 杆 is first tone for all golfing terms? (e.g. 一号木杆 [yi1 hao4 mu4 gan1] driver). I am finding "gan1" and "gan3" in various dictionaries, and variation even within a single dictionary.
changye says
July 13, 2008
Hi richwarm2,
I feel there is a kind of irony in using 早就 in the dialogue. Anyway, the span of time covered by 早就 depends on speakers' intentions. 我刚才不是说了吗？(wo3 gang1 cai2 bu2 shi4 shuo1 le ma) would also be OK in this context.
auntie68 says
July 13, 2008
@richwarm2: I don't have time this morning to type out the examples offered by my dictionary, but -- in brief -- 杆 has two readings.
杆, first tone, refers to a stick or club.
杆, third tone, specifically refers to the barrel or the shaft of something. Eg. 笔杆 is the shaft (or the "grip") of a pen. Looks like it couuld also be a classifier for some such objects: 一杆笔， 一杆秤 etc.
So I think you could even say, "我想买一杆(gan3)新的木杆(gan1)。" Could anybody out there confirm this? I can't be 100% certain because I'm not a native speaker.
For what it's worth, a good print dictionary is very useful for getting a grip on 多音字 (duo1yin1zi4), ie., characters with different readings.
richwarm2 says
July 13, 2008
nciku.com has two separate entries, giving different tones for 杆 !
1号木杆 [1hào mù gǎn] driver
一号木杆 [yīhào mùgān] driver
By the way, if you go to
http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php
and enter "golf" you will get several dozen golfing terms in Chinese.
richwarm2 says
July 13, 2008
Sorry. I didn't mean to leave all those blank lines. It says "15 minutes left to edit your comment" but HOW do I edit my comment??
changye says
July 13, 2008
Hi auntie68,
Probably 一根(gen1)木杆 or 一根铁干 should be more commonly used. For the record, my chubby dog has 一条尾巴 (yi4 tiao2 wei3 ba, a tail).
inland says
July 13, 2008
I suppose that mu3gan1 of golf is more of a stick and bang4 of bang4qiu2 is more of a club.
qiulian says
July 13, 2008
Refering to pcmi's question:
Doesn't the 过 already specify that the verb has already occurred?
my understanding is in--
我造就告诉过你了
The 了 indicates a past event, and the 过 emphasizes the experience-- 告诉过.
I don't think "我造就告诉过你" would be incorrect, but I suspect adding "了" makes it a better sentence.
klyau8 says
July 13, 2008
Hello! Yau from Malaysia. We have got many beautiful golf courses in Malaysia and green fees here are much more reasonable and affordable compared to China. 欢迎你们来打高尔夫球!
amber says
July 13, 2008
hi everyone, re: 早就 (zǎojiù):
早就：
When you use 早就 (zǎojiù) indicates that an action already happened, and emphasizes that it was sometime in the past, a period of time ago:
You can also say:
我已经告诉过你了
Wǒ yǐjing gàosu guò nǐ le
But this doesn't emphasize the time, it is just a more vague, 'already'.
As far as the 过 (guò) and the 了 (le), both mean past tense, the 过 (guò) has more to do with having been experienced before, the 了 (le) meaning a completed action. You will often see the 了 at the end of a 早就 (zǎojiù) sentence.
evasiege says
July 13, 2008
A better phrase for "a long time ago" would be 很久以前 right? Or can it be used in the same context as 早就?
amber says
July 13, 2008
hi evasiege,
很久以前 (hěn jiǔ yǐqián) means a longer time ago than 早就 (zǎojiù).
evasiege says
July 13, 2008
Ok thanks.
starfish0803 says
July 13, 2008
hi amber 我能用好久 =早就, 对不对？
d1438 says
July 13, 2008
starfish0803
好久=很久
acually,their meaning is almost the same.but their postion in the sentence is not the same.
eg:我 来了 很久了
我 早就 来了
fayimadu says
July 14, 2008
Hello, i'm extremely glad to find this site. Please in how many months can i be good in spoken and written chinese as a foreigner in China?Also how do i study the chinese?
Thank you.
wolson says
July 14, 2008
fayimadu says
2 hours ago
There are no easy answers to these questions. But most commentors seem to agree that Chinese is 5 times more difficult to learn than French.
Most foreigners in China do not speak much Chinese other than some courtesies. However, people that make a conscientious effort to learn Chinese can master an Elementary Level in between 6 months and a year of serious study.
With regards to studying Chinese, there are several methods which, in my opinion, can be mixed together within reason:
I have little faith that someone can learn Chinese on their own through self study from a book. Such a person would have to be lucky, very talented and very dedicated.
pretzellogic says
July 14, 2008
fayimadu
my take would be based on the Defense Language Institute (DLI) website. So if you're dedicating 8-12 hour days, 5 days a week on mandarin, you could expect to be fairly decent in mandarin in about 14 - 16 months.
pretzellogic says
July 14, 2008
but of course, everyone learns at different speeds....
wolson says
July 14, 2008
Something else that I should have mentioned but it did not make the leap through the deep infinite fog between my ears:
There are many Confucius Institutes established by the Chinese government in the United Staes and the World. For a description and a list please see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confucius_Institute
These have the mission of teaching the Chinese language. I have been involved in the initial formation of one at my university.
zhanglihua says
July 14, 2008
Ah, yeah, the DLI... so assuming that you're not opting to become an SF soldier, here's my take on this issue:
I work as a tutor for foreigners and language teacher, so I might have some experience regarding language acquisition. I know that it is possible to reach intermediate level of Chinese proficiency (at least what's called intermediate here on CP) within less than 7 months if you study diligently and devote the better part of you leisure time to it. You probably wouldn't be able to pass even the lowest HSK test, but it is definitely possible, even if you work on your own. Concerning autodidactic learning, it is absolutely crucial that you seek feedback from native speakers. Find an online friend, enroll in an evening school course or use the CP community. In my opinion, you can make rapid progress on our own if that's your learning style, but there will be huge gaps, especially when it comes to functional vocab and active processes. The passive part will usually be good, the self-learner can reach a high level of listening and reading comprehension and even knowledge of grammar, because these are the skills he/she can hone efficiently. I have had students who managed to learn 3000 Hanzi within less than 10 months but couldn't keep up a chat for more than a minute. Conversation often fails because the student has to overcome a huge obstacle first - his/her anxiety and lack of self-confidence.
So, for a time frame...give yourself the time you need, don't put yourself under pressure. It also depends on in which areas you want to achieve fluency first. Do you want to be able to read as well as speak? Would conversation skills be enough? Do you have to be able to actually *write* the characters by hand, or would recognizing (and typing on a PC which is simple once you know the pinyin and can recognize the hanzi in question) be sufficient?
I think my foreign language studies are pretty symptomatic - I learn completely on my own, without being able to get into the appropiate environment. After just half a year respectively, I could read and understand by listening both Spanish and French (so much easier than Chinese, admittedly) effortlessly. The same took me one year for Arabic and Russian. But speaking and writing is a completely different matter and I wouldn't boast any kind of fluency in either of these languages.
Once you have defined your goals, you can then decide how much time to devote to it. So if you're dedicated, have a little talent, and find a method that suits you, you can make astounding progress within as little as 6 months. Don't expect to be able to read the news or follow CCTV, but be prepared for that empowering feeling that comes with a post-elementary level of Chinese.
Many students get so caught up in the "Oh, Chinese is such a obscure language"-myth or expect too much of themselves (perhaps based on their experience with European languages, if they have learned a foreign language at all) that they become discouraged. Just go with the flow, view it a lovely challenging pasttime instead of an obligation. You will learn lots about yourself and your learning style.
If you want some personal advice, send me a private message.
Oh, and sorry for the long-winded comment.
Regarding golf, I just today realised that there is a golf course not far a way from where I live. So should you happen to spend time in Wuhan, take a bus to the 2-7 incident memorial and then ask your way to the golf club.
chanelle77 says
July 14, 2008
@Fayimadu maybe this can help you a bit to get an idea...
September 2008 it was decided that my husband and I would live in China for 2 years. Because I thought it was extremely important to learn the language, I decided to start a beginner’s course at the Confusius Institute in The Hague. This 30 hour course was really introductory and to be honest (in retrospect), I did not learn too much about the language. But, more important, my teacher made me really enthusiastic about learning Chinese. She was just a really nice and great teacher, who gave me the confidence I would “survive” China and was able to learn the language. After the course I decided I would try to learn Chinese during my 2 year stay.
I arrived January first in China and tried to order a cup of tea in a restaurant and miserably failed. For the first months it was almost impossible to find ( a good ) teacher and I did not study at all. I thought how can it be so hard to learn Chinese in China?
By March, I found two teachers and started right away. The more practical private teacher focused on spoken and practical day to day Chinese. The other more scholarly teacher from a university focused more on reading, writing and grammar. The fact that she did not speak English at all was a bit challenging in the beginning, but it worked out pretty well. Every week I had 8 hours of classes, 10 – 15 hours of preparation and studied by my self for about 20 hours a week. Chinesepod I used as something “extra”. It was a great way for me to relax, have fun and learn! And very useful to practice listening which my other teachers did not really practice.
After a few weeks I noticed progress and soon I was able to express myself to my ayi, driver, people in the Suguo and they understood me as well. I felt so proud when I could get around by myself in a taxi, stores etc. :-). The interaction with others really motivated me to continue and opened a new world for me. A downside is that my ayi stopped gossiping, because I understand too much now.
My Mandarin is far from perfect and I have to do a lot of work to get to the level where I want to be, but the moral of the story: Just put a lot of time in, do not be scares it AND really enjoy to learn Chinese, you will be surprised how soon you can get around!
In fact Chinese is one of the easiest languages to learn: "There are many people studying Chinese now. I hope that all of you reporters, and the other ladies and gentlemen in attendance, can take up the study of Chinese. I believe that Chinese is one of the easiest languages in the world to learn. Otherwise, how can you explain why 1.3 billion people have chosen it as their mother tongue?" (China's Foreign Minister on a press conference, source: Danwei).
snowjay says
July 15, 2008
Can any one explain the difference between 杆 and 桿? Both are used in the Traditional transcript..
hanyuxuesheng says
July 15, 2008
杆 [gān] (trad. 杆) = pole
杆 [gǎn] (trad. 桿) = shaft
napoleone says
July 18, 2008
Hi everyone!
Searching into my dictionary I found out that the verb to play is of course da3 as expressed on the dialogue, but I realized that there is another verb I think more accurate saying that if you want to speak about sports played with a ball in general, doesn’t matter the size, you should say da3 qiu2 and then the sport.
So in this case would that be an error if I am going to say: wo3 da3 qiu2 gao1 e3r fu1?
jumpdc says
July 25, 2008
hello napoleone,
it's wrong to say "wo3 da3 qiu2 gao1 e3r fu1". Because in this sentence 高爾夫=高爾夫「球」, so you shouldn't say 「球」 twice.
further examples: 打桌球(table tennis) 打棒球(baseball) 打保齡球(powling) etc.
The word you metioned, 打球, contains a verb(打） and a noun(球）
You can say 我喜歡打球(I like to play ball) The most popular sport in Taiwan is basketball, therefore it often means to play basketball. Although we also enjoy watching baseball game, but it's easier to find a place to play basketball.
nlangley says
July 26, 2008
Hi all,
With regards to the study of Mandarin, my approach has been CD and CP primarily. I have also engaged in reading about China (English text) in order to better understand China from a broad based perspective. I cannot say how much if any this eclectic approach is directly adding value or not to my language studies. However, I can tell you that it adds a lot to my sense of journey through the language for I am including a look at her politics, culture, history and contemporary economic, social and environmental hopes & challenges.
I hope to travel to China Q3 of 2008 on business for an extended time period. Accordingly, a sense of urgency while enjoying the learning process visits my studies of Mandarin.
Thanks for making CP a success through your posts and feedback!
napoleone says
July 29, 2008
hi jumpdc
thank you for your explanation!!!!
chris says
August 21, 2008
Some really interesting comments above - I particularly enjoyed Zhanglihua's and Chanelle's.
Chanelle, I would be really interested to know how your husband's Chinese speaking ability compares to yours? I know lots of expat couples here in Shanghai, mostly where the husband is working and the wife not (although there are some exceptions to the rule) - and where the wife has made the effort to use the spare time to study the language, they are simply streets ahead of their husband. Having said that, many of the non-working halves of the relationships also seem to have fallen into the "brunches, shopping, afternoon teas, shopping, dinner" trap and don't appear to be making any productive use of their time at all. My hat off to you for being so dedicated with all those hours of studying and lessons a week! I am very impressed.
I have to admit that after an initial rush of learning when I first arrived in Shanghai (Jan07), my studying essentially stopped for over a year due to work demands. However, I've now reassessed my priorities and learning Chinese is fully back on the agenda - so much so that I keep stealing half hour or so here and there during the working day where I'll study a few CPod lessons instead of work!
Chris
chanelle77 says
August 29, 2008
Hi Chris,
First of all sorry for the late response, I missed your comment. Currently I am back in Holland for a few weeks and haven't been focusing too much on my Chinese. My husband is making progress, but because of the demanding job, he has fewer opportunities. He also thinks that Chinese should learn Dutch and is therefore not particularly motivated *wink*. With his driver he speaks a strange combination of English, Italian, French, Dutch, German or whatever he feels like hahaha, but hey if it works for him it’s fine. As for the "expat wife thing": well I love to socialize, but I also love a purpose in life :-). To be honest I find China pretty difficult. Although shopping pearls and playing golf is nice, there is more in life! So I figured, learning Chinese is not a bad idea if you are living and hopefully working among Chinese a few years, so I locked myself in the house and studied quite a lot. As said, I would love to work myself, but it is very hard to find a nice job in Nanjing (I even offered to work for free!!!). I used to be in retailing / innovation and since there are a lot of nice stores I figured I could easily work here. I could not have been more wrong, ""they" prefer Chinese. I tried to cover up the bad Chinese, blue eyes and blond hair but that did not work. Maybe I should socialize a bit more and learn less Chinese. By the way, lucky you to be in Shanghai: I love it! Good luck with you studies.
bababardwan says
September 7, 2008
Firstly ,I love the quote [and pic] from Caddyshack [one of my favourite movies ] in the lesson introduction;very apt.And just like the movie,I found this lesson very funny [esp. the caddy's muttering's,followed by the golfers angry "shenme !?#"].Thanks to Ken and Jenny for not only being excellent teachers,but for also making the lessons so entertaining and fun.This lesson also introduced a new challenge;how to shout in Mandarin {kanqui} and keep the tones correct.
Thanks to Bazza for some extra golfing vocab.I'd love to know how to say "hole in one".Would it be "qiudong zai yi ?" Somehow I doubt it.I'm never likely to be that lucky to be playing golf in China and get a hole in one ,but wouldn't it be tragic if I was so lucky ,and couldn't come up with the vocab?
I was also interested in Vann0000's post about the Mission Hills golf club being the largest in the world,and also about how golf is booming in East Asia.I had a brief stopover in Taipei last year and was put up at a Golf Club designed by Jack Nicklaus.Admittedly it was only a 1 night stay ,but I got the distinct impression that they weren't doing much business.The place seemed deserted ,except for others also put up by the airline.But it looked like a magnificent course from what I could see.
bababardwan says
September 8, 2008
eyux,
Thanks for your imagery of a xsection of a green for the tones in gaoerfu.A great way to remember them,and now I won't forget !