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Lesson Introduction
You've just stepped out from the office when a frenzied pack of language students senses your presence and rushes over with English greetings. We've all been there and know this is one of those things about China that can be both sweet as well as incredibly frustrating. How you deal with it is your call. But since pretending you're from Xinjiang isn't always an option, it's useful to have a few tricks up your sleeve for steering conversations back to Mandarin. This podcast covers the easiest way: asking them to speak Chinese.
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Kyle says
Whenever I'm approached like this I just make a puzzled face and ask them to repeat themselves, then I tell them I'm European and don't speak English. Quick, effective and fool proof.June 23, 2007
changye says
Hi Chinesepod! Here are my favorite "set expressions" when I talk with Chinese people. 请慢点说, 好吗? 请再大点声, 好吗? 请再说一遍, 好不好?June 23, 2007
huomao says
Lol, Kyle, thats similar to how a friend and Iused to deal with street hawkers. Whenever we were approached we would pretend to converse in Spanish and this would quickly see them off. My Spanish is practically non existant (can say a little thanks to Spanishsense), but they didn't know that.June 23, 2007
erikalee says
Hey changye, maybe because it's in simplified and I can't read that as well, I'm not totally getting the second sentence.. qing zai da dian ???, hao ma? The first one is "Can you please speak a little slower?" The last one is "Can you please say it again?" Hao bu hao?June 23, 2007
changye says
Hi erikalee, Your translations are perfect. The second one may be translated as "Could you please speak a little louder? " By the way, your cat is so cute. You said in your Bio that all she can say is "mao." The only word my dog can say is "wang." Anyway both of them can speak Chinese.June 23, 2007
snidersax8908 says
hey, just in case u didnt see, i think i have a way around the IE mp3 problem. Just read my comment at the bottom of the sweet watermelon discussion.June 23, 2007
dave says
That term 'language rapist' made me laugh. I have never heard that term before but I have been a victim. I've probably done some unintentional raping too...June 23, 2007
franch says
I would think twice before asking such a thing. Wouldn't that make one a kind of ugly tourist? Somehow this reverses the position of the foes In the language war. Anyway, as for me I belong to neutral territory... or so am I able to pretend, out of a long diplomatic tradition. So I might 借道 and let people have it their way. Sounds more courteous than raping your way through 文化. I'll never rape someone who isn't a friend already... lest he thinks that's just what I'm doing.June 24, 2007
changye says
Who is the tough-looking guy in the photo? I feel scared. I am sure that there is no choice but to speak Chinese. Is he a Jenny's bodyguard?June 24, 2007
antoniov says
I'm a bit confused with the terms: 汉语，中文 and 普通话。 Do they mean the same? When should i use each of them?June 24, 2007
xiaodu says
Ni hao changye, Dogs in America often say "woof,"June 24, 2007
Joachim says
Does wearing a t-shirt like mine help? ;-)June 24, 2007
user24833 says
The pdf has english for the chinese, the pinyin and the english. Could someone update that?June 24, 2007
bazza says
Joachim, does that say "请说普通话"? It's a bit difficult make out clearly.June 24, 2007
changye says
Hi xiaodu! Thank you for your info. I asked my dog whether or not she could say "woof" like dogs in USA. Her answer was as follows: I can't speak English.June 24, 2007
franch says
Hi Antoniov, This most relevant question must not be drowned in the downpour. I don't have a clear answer, but I'll give my humble opinion in a few words... 拙见 (IMO): 广东人说一种不同普通话的汉语， 就是因为中文随着年纪变化很多 Guǎngdōng rén shuō yī zhǒng bù tóng pǔtōng huà de hànyǔ jiù shì yīnwéi zhōng wén suí zhe niánjì gǎibiān hěn duō People from Guangdong speak a variety of Chinese different from the common speech, this because language in China underwent many changes as the centuries went by. Now I hope people will be compelled to correct the above... I definitely want to know the differences.June 24, 2007
bemo says
I think I would say 'I'm sorry, I am American, I don't understand English'.June 24, 2007
franch says
Antoniov, I see that Amber has explained the use for each of them in the discussion on Newbie "Didn't Hear Clearly" (April 14, 2007). Thx Amber ;)June 24, 2007
herrbradock says
just say, 對不起,我不會說英語June 24, 2007
herrbradock says
Look, that bald guy is doing the "jedi trick" with his hand!!!June 24, 2007
daizi says
I usually say something like, Я не говорю английскую язык (Russian for I don't speak English).June 24, 2007
digchinese says
antoniov: 汉语: Han Chinese language. Some prefer to use that instead of 中文 because the latter might imply that mandarin is *the* language for the whole country, which is far from the case in practice. 普通话 is usually used to distinguish proper mandarin from dialects.June 24, 2007
zhitomir says
Laodai-)) Actually Russian for "I don't speak English" is "Я не говорю на английском языке", unless you said it intentionally in broken Russian)June 24, 2007
daizi says
Yeah, my Russian is broken.June 24, 2007
RonInDC says
Perhaps, at the newbie level, people could write characters with translation?June 24, 2007
maxiewawa says
Firstly, I have picked up a reflex here in 上海 from the locals that whenever I hear a Chinese person speaking English, I say 哇，你英文说得好棒哦。 When someone speaks English to me, I usually just say "HA?" which is colloquial Chinese for "Pardon Me?" or a loud ‘什么!!??’ (That second character is MAAA? As in SHENMAAA?") It's useful in making people look silly. Take this dialogue, which happens to me often. This is an elementary lesson. Context is: you're in a computer shop. Me: 这个多少？最低？24寸的？ Computer Salesman: (Starts spluttering, eyes go wide)... Computer Salesman runs away. Me: 逃走了！ 2 minutes later, Computer Salesman returns with Female Computer Salesman. Computer Salesman sheepishly hides behind Female Computer Salesman. Female CS: Hello, can I help you? You were pointing vaguely in the direction of some of our computers, and must have been speaking English, so my colleague came and got me. Me: 什么？？？ FCS: Can I help you? Me: (trying to make the situation even more absurd) 你说什么啊？ FCS: (Still not actually listening to what I say) Do you want to buy something? Me: (Looking at Male Computer Salesman) 他是外国人啊？ After 30 more minutes of Female Computer Salesman and Me talking like this, with her not listening to me and me deliberately not listening to her, I turn to Male Computer Salesman. Me: 你要买电脑吗？ He again almost swallows his tongue in surprise and eventually ends up laughing at the whole thing. It usually ticks me off a bit when people speak to me in English in shops. They are only trying to help though. But the fact that I 'obviously can't speak Chinese' gets to me. But then again, they're doing what they see as a service to the customer. There has to be some etiquette to approaching someone who you're not sure he/she speaks your language. How do you approach someone politely? Maybe with ‘你好，Can I help you, お客さま?’June 24, 2007
franch says
User 第一名 我想订阅你的声相好吧? 呵呵 Have some Chinese Enhancing Spinach Counter Popeye Salesmen!June 24, 2007
osirius says
laodai and zhitomir More colloquial speech is not "я не говорю на английском языке" though it's quite right but "я не говорю по английски". I'm myself russian but I never told or heard from somebody "я не говорю на английском языке". Best regardsJune 24, 2007
rich says
Why no traditional PDFs for this?June 24, 2007
maxiewawa says
Haha,谢谢Franch. 不知道可不可以，Chinesepod可能没这个功能。 最可笑的是实现的。 The funniest stories are always the true ones.June 25, 2007
zhitomir says
Оsirius- thanks, mate,)).Приветствую!Такое дело что я тоже, ну как бы не совсем русский, с Украины, но русский мой родной язык..а ту фразу я написал просто чтоб для человека понятней как "по-книжному")June 25, 2007
ankurg says
I want to beg to my colleague :D- "I want to learn chinese but you just dont help me". so i say 'wo xiang xuixi zhingwen, ??' how do i say the second part 'but you just dont help me' ?June 25, 2007
daizi says
Ankurg, you could say: 但是你没有帮助我Dànshì nǐ méiyǒu bāngzhù wǒ.June 25, 2007
herrbradock says
Dave: your avatar is disturbing, can you change it please?June 25, 2007
dave says
okJune 25, 2007
andrewm says
Just wondering, Ken. How do you say "language rapist" in Mandarin? Unless of course your saving it for a future podcast. Oh, the suspense. I definitely know what you mean by having to get out there and being more forceful about speaking Mandarin. This however, causes many embarrassing moments, for me at least. I believe the sacrifice is worth it. A little self humiliation can go a long way. Sometimes it's a little hard to bear. Like when someone in a restaurant at a nearby table hears you speaking. Then that person says something like "I hate when people don't know how to use the word correctly." As if they were supposed to be listening to me talking with my friend anyways. I really wish they would correct me, instead of making comments like that. PS: I miss the Saturday Show. Peace outJune 25, 2007
excuter says
大家好， 你不要骗人 (even though it´s an interresting idea to find out if they realy believe an american couldn´t speak english [ok nonnatives not included] ) @ laodai I might be wrong but I have the strong wish to add a 的 behind the 我.June 25, 2007
daizi says
One could,executer, for emphasis. Even more emphatic would be adding a 是：但你是没有帮助我的。Dàn nǐ shì méiyǒu bāngzhù wǒ de. I took the 是 off 但是 because it sounds better to me. However, a native speaker might have other ideas.June 25, 2007
ankurg says
Laodai thanks for the help! but as of now i cannot read the chinese characters!:( but your english char usage helped!!June 25, 2007
excuter says
好的大家随便 ( 还是 大家如 大家 喜欢?)June 25, 2007
franch says
For Dave's sake, the team should now remove Herrbradock's comment. Looking back on it looks a bit... funny indeedJune 25, 2007
erikito says
awesome lesson thanks so much this is all very helpful and makes learning very fun!!June 25, 2007
helenk says
A question about pronunciations: Sometimes the pronunciation in the audio files of certain sounds is unfamiliar and I often wonder if this is because the speaker has a regional accent? What I hear sometimes sounds as if the speaker is not rounding out or finishing a sound, but leaving it more open. So the pronounciation of Nǐhǎo for example by the speaker in this lesson's Fix mp3 file sounds more like “nee-hah” rather than “nee-how” (excuse the awkward transliterations). Also in this lesson, the pronunciation of Yīngwén was a bit strange. In the vocab and dialogue, the speaker pronounces the Yīng like “yung” but I’ve only heard it pronounced more like “yeeng” and when I checked the pronunciation guide (section 8), it sounds more like the way I’ve heard it. There are a couple more instances in this Lesson, but I’ve noticed these discrepancies in pronunciation in several other lessons (I’m only working on newbie and elementary) and kept thinking maybe this is just what happens when words get actually spoken and sounds run into each other or it's an accent issue since this hasn't come up when I've been trying to learn Mandarin with Taiwanese friends. Or maybe my sense of pronunciation is REALLY OFF or my hearing needs to get checked since nobody else seems to be having this reaction or problem with pronunciations??? Thanks for any help.June 25, 2007
warlitobautista says
This is my first time using chinese pod, and let me say that this site really does help alot to people who wants to learn mandarin. Specially for those who have no time to go to school and study because of strict working hours. I hope you'll keep on doing what it is your doing.June 26, 2007
amber says
ankurg, "I want to learn chinese but you just dont help me". 我想学中文， 但是你都不帮助我。 Wǒ xiǎng xué Zhōngwén, dànshì nǐ dōu bù bāngzhù wǒ.June 26, 2007
azerdocmom says
helenk You have a very accurate sense of the tones and pronounciations. My Mandarin is the Taiwan "brand" and so I understand why you note the slight differences between mainland Mandarin vs. Taiwan Mandarin. I think the "ni2-hah3" is actually "nee2-har3" with a very slight curling of the tongue at the very end of "hah" ( which didn't come across clearly in the recording.) But people from Taiwan like myself and your friends would say "nee2how3."June 26, 2007
helenk says
AZERDocMom, You're right, I think it is a slight curling of the tongue- now I can hear why my Taiwanese friends have commented on how rounded and curly the mainlander pronunciations are. After I wrote my post I thought it's probably just that I only hear Taiwanese speakiing Mandarin, rather than mainland Chinese. Thanks for the confirmation! :)June 27, 2007
emptiness says
Is it still correct to say 我想学中文 ? In what cases must you say 学习 instead of just 学 ?June 28, 2007
daizi says
I think generally that 学 is used transitively (it needs an object) but 学习 can be used either transitively or intransitively. Thus you can say: 我在学习。(I'm studying.) but not 我在学 unless the context makes an object understood.June 28, 2007
emptiness says
thanks laodai! Another question are 汉语 and 中文 equivalent or are there situations where you'd prefer one over the other? Also is 汉语 (the language of the han?) always equivalent to Mandarin?June 28, 2007
userssweety says
this is my 1 st time 2 join the discussion,but i think chinese will be easy 4 everyone,if u really love it,iam so interested in chinese,so i think ie is easy,if any1 needs help ,i ll try 2 help me,,,再见June 28, 2007
azerdocmom says
"I want to learn chinese but you just dont help me". 我想学中文， 但是你都不帮助我。 Wǒ xiǎng xué Zhōngwén, dànshì nǐ dōu bù bāngzhù wǒ. To be more polite and perhaps more effective at eliciting the helpfulness you want, I suggest that instead of saying "you just don't help me," say: "I want to learn Chinese, could you please help me practice? Wǒ xiǎng xué Zhōngwén, quin2 ni3 bang1 wo3 lien4 xi2, hao3bu4hao3?"June 28, 2007
aaronpan says
well,i am chinese,i think u can use 我不会说英语，我是意大利人(italian)，但是我会说中文，你可以帮我提高中文吗？ Why r u tell chinese that u r italian?Because,we believe that italian can't say English.June 28, 2007
sbw06 says
Хотя я американец, я все-таки говорю по-русски и никогда не слышал "я не говорю на русском языке". 关于普通话，最好是说"麻烦你，我相练习中文，为了帮助我请你跟我说中文。谢谢！“June 29, 2007
userssweety says
i can help anyone .i have been studing chinese for 2 years,this is the 3 rd year,could u tell me what is the problem with chinese? to know how i ll help uJune 29, 2007
kitty says
Is that a picture of Dick Cheney up there? I doubt if he can speak any language other than Texas English, even if his retirement home is close to the 49th Parallel.June 29, 2007
excuter says
I doubt it ;-) , no honestly I looked it up at wikipedia and if the photo of him is not completely out of date he´s definetly not :-)June 29, 2007
excuter says
...on the photo.June 29, 2007
daizi says
That guy's not nearly evil looking enough to be Cheney. He's even kinda smiling.June 29, 2007
excuter says
When I searched for cheney on Google there was a site "duck it´s Dick" reminding me of the hunting story in the news (last year?), man that realy was interresting (and fun to hear) . ;-)July 1, 2007
rich says
Bumping my request for the traditional Chinese PDF. Just like to keep my collection complete. Did the link for it get over looked, or the PDF never got done?July 2, 2007
amiken says
As for me, I would ask him/ her to speak in Chinese as to improve my Mandarin. This what I will say: 你可以讲华语吗？July 2, 2007
eileen says
Hi Rich, Just checked the trad PDF and it should be there! :-)July 2, 2007
Lantian says
Hi Annie, Thanks for placing the ad here. You can send the ad payment to me at my Paypal account. 多谢你的广告，花费送给我的Paypal。July 3, 2007
Lantian says
Ah shucks - you took out the previous junk posting. Oh well, I was hoping for big bucks. ;pJuly 3, 2007
sneakymouse says
The person in the picture looks intimidating... 谢谢， 中文Pod.July 10, 2007
KennyK says
@maxiewawa (6-25-2007) I've been there and done that scenario a million times. It's really frustrating sometimes. I found I can avoid some confusion by just starting off "ni hao" ... this is my cue to them that i'm a foreigner who is about to speak chinese to them one of the worse cases i've seen is in fast food restaurants (MD, KFC, BK, etc...) as soon as i walk in i can hear them scream to the back "wai guo ren!" and then they search for that manager who can speak english and then they start giggling and teasing each other about who will speak english to me...................... and then of course i order the whole meal in chinese :PJuly 11, 2007
ingmar says
Not as bad as the time when I walked into a Harbin restaurant and the only card playing Chinese patrons shouted: "Ta bi zi!"July 14, 2007
marwita01 says
Thank you for the lesson When i'll talk to our Chinese Customer i'll tell them Qing Shuo Zhongwen.Wo Xiang xuexi Zhonqwen ;)July 26, 2007
rich says
KennyK, It even bugs me more when I walk up, all knowing what I want to order at McD's or KFC in Chinese, start rambling off my order as I've done many times perfectly even knowing how to say 巨无霸 for Big Mac and the such, but just as I do that, they appear to not be listening but finding the laminated menu that they can put in front of me which I clearly don't need. But then I've lost my thought and my order, and ended up pointing out my order because that is how they expect me to order, not even listening to my Chinese. *sigh* But then, after paying, they always ask me in Chinese 在这里吃还是带走? as if I was a native speaker, sometimes saying it too quick, catching me off guard... some things just don't make sense.July 26, 2007
maxiewawa says
The confused/SHENMAAAA look technique always works for me. Just keep doing it until they speak Chinese. As for the rude 'da bi zi' , the standard response is to either do a 360, look around wildly, saying ‘哪理？哪里?‘ or to just point at whoever said it, and yell out '小鼻子！‘July 26, 2007
KennyK says
maxiewawa... i believe you are from austrailia originally and live in shanghai, but (to me anyway) your features look a lot like you could be of chinese descent... so i'm curious... how do chinese people usually approach you? as a foreigner or do they mistake you for a local?July 26, 2007
charlie8chan says
simple yet effective. Repetition is the key !August 21, 2007
Lantian says
CHANGES - I don't think that simply repeating over and over always works. In fact it's often a waste of time. Learning and changing one's pronunciation takes many approaches. Find what works for you. 我不觉得只说多次是一定最好的方法。每个人的合适的方法和问题不一样。自己查一下合适的练法最好。是我一个人的想法。August 22, 2007
spazy says
This Rocks!September 13, 2007
ewilc773 says
I live in China, and one of my friends was dumbfounded when he found out I was doing Chinese lessons online. "If I lived in America," he said, "I wouldn't need to use any internet English lessons." Ah, but in America, you won't be constantly bombarded by people wanting to practice Chinese with you. You would actually have to learn English. Or Spanish.October 16, 2007
pulosm says
A couple of comments: (1) I think this phenomenon is uniquely Chinese. In Vietnam, when I would speak Vietnamese, which is known by even LESS foreigners, I never ever ever had anyone do what maxiewawa describes. BUT, that happens ALL the time in China. (2) I don't think there is any way around it. They don't believe that you don't speak English even when you say you are Italian or whatever else. They see a non-Asian and assume that they speak English (which is usually true). They only way to do it is to get them to believe that your Chinese is better than their English. Even if it is not. So, right in the beginning, pronounce everything perfectly and use a chengyu or something. It sounds crazy, but it works. (3) This problem is less common in Taiwan, so learn Chinese there! ;-) (4) As for the discussion about 汉语，中文 and 普通话. First, 汉 (han4) does NOT refer to Mandarin-speaking Chinese. Cantonese, Fukkienese, Hakka, etc. are ALL Han Chinese. 汉 is used to distinguish the majority of the population from the other 54 odd minority groups that are Chinese nationals but are not what we traditionally think of as "Chinese" (Uighurs, ethnic Koreans, etc.). 普通话 means "common language" and refers to Mandarin. But, this is only used in Mainland China. In Hong Kong you usually say "gwok yu" and in Taiwan you would say "guo2yu3." They mean "national language". You only use any of these when you are SPECIFICALLY distinguishing Mandarin from other languages/dialects. 中文 is uses synonymously with Mandarin, but by no means really means Mandarin. Technically, it just means "Chinese" and includes all dialects/languages of the Chinese. 汉语 is a formal version of 中文and includes the written language. Additionally, it is not "offensive" the way 中文 could be because it specifically refers to the Han language and does not treat Han as the only "Chinese" because, as I said, Uighurs et al. are Chinese nationals as well, so theoretically (though never ever in practice) their languages fall under the umbrella of 中文 (5) As for strange pronunciations of "ying." In the north of China, the "ing" is pronounced almost like "ieng." When people say "Beijing," the "ing" has an "ie" coloration; a twang, if you will. As for Taiwan, many many many people do not have the Taiwanese accent; it's mainly only people who grow up speaking Taiwanese at home. I think it's overstated. ALSO, it is not fair to say that mainlanders ALL speak like Beijingers. Many southern Chinese sound exactly the same as Taiwanese speakers.October 16, 2007
goulnik says
another thing that always surprise me is the use of 我国 wǒguó，our country to mean China. That seems to carry a strong feeling of identity, whereas in English we'd hear "in this country"October 16, 2007
goulnik says
oh, and the trick 我不会说英语 has worked without a hitch for me over the past two weeks，sometimes changing to 你不会说中文吗？Equally effective, there's just been one occasion where I was so upset I mistakenly asked the guy 你不会说英语吗？ Also make sure not to get caught off-guard when s.o. calls you on your cellphone :-)October 16, 2007
pulosm says
Well, maybe if you are from France they will believe that you can't speak English. No one believes the French are capable of learning any foreign languages at all. :-)October 16, 2007
goulnik says
zis iz trooOctober 16, 2007
tangmoo says
*Option 1* - be kind - say 'Sprechen Sie Deutsch?' and look confused. For some reason they don't think Germans can speak English and start talking to you in Chinese. *Option 2* - Don't be kind - keep saying 'sorry i don't understand you, are you speaking English?' they will look broken like a sad puppy and walk away. Warning - this will probably haunt you for a couple of days as the person has probably spent every waking hour learning english relentlessly for 8 years. I'd urge you all to go for option 1... okay, back to my listening.October 16, 2007
aphaia says
@goulniky So? It is common in East Asian country ... not only in China.October 23, 2007
Kyle says
I would say anywhere where the general population is not white, foreigners will always be spoken to in English.October 23, 2007
nubs says
talking about chinese ffs ...nubNovember 13, 2007
hitokiri6993 says
Growing in a Cantonese environment, I have some difficulties analyzing 都 in Mandarin since 都在廣東話functions as 也...in 漢語，i know that 都means "all", but why should be there a 都in 大家都不知道？I've never used or learned Cantonese written grammar, and I've only spoken and used Vernacular Cantonese...which could be the reason why I don't know the 都 function in Mandarin.April 1, 2008
majamaya says
maxiewawa related to following anecdote: "Female CS: Hello, can I help you? You were pointing vaguely in the direction of some of our computers, and must have been speaking English, so my colleague came and got me. Me: 什么？？？ FCS: Can I help you? Me: (trying to make the situation even more absurd) 你说什么啊？" Quite frankly, I don't find that story very amusing. It's not exactly insulting either, but I'd feel pretty dumb - as if they didn't even realize I was speaking Chinese. I'd constantly worry whether my pronunciation is that abysmal. So is this absurd situation the result of either A. a discrepancy in the understand of the concept of politeness B. a Chinese attitude towards foreigners (especially those trying to speak putonghua) C.the Chinese being keen on speaking English D. the customer's pronunciation? Could you please clear this up for me, it makes me feel somewhat uncomfortable...April 1, 2008
auntie68 says
Dear majamaya, that was a great example of culture shock, one of the "Chinese vs Gweilo" variations thereof. It will happen; but don't let it bother you. Here is my perspective on it (if you want it): In many Asian countries, people who are not so well exposed to foreign cultures are hostages of some very powerful cultural assumptions: Eg. "No way any foreigner would want to (or can) learn Chinese!". These odd assumptions didn't arise without a bit of help from foreigners, of course. Today, young Europeans working in my country (Singapore) are likely to be fluent in at least one, if not -- like maxiewawa -- two or three Asian languages. A mere 10 - 15 years ago, the stereotypical "expat" was a middle-aged European who only needed to learn enough pidgin Malay or pidgin Cantonese to instruct his houseboy or driver or cook. There was a certain "gentlemen's club" made (in)famous by the "No Dogs and Chinese" signs for certain parts of the clubhouse... the sign was only taken down after WWII! majamaya, I like to believe that the CS's role was a knee-jerk reaction. He didn't believe his ears and his eyes, and then the momentum carried him along until he was well and truly in a groove. One thing to consider is the Asian concept of "face". If you visit a rural Thai school and are introduced to the school's "English expert", who turns out to be barely able to speak English, it would be an unimaginable loss of face to him, and the school, insist on solving the obvious language difficulties by switching to Thai. I know it sounds daft, but the "Asian way" would be to do your best to try and show some respect to him/ the school by continuing to struggle on in English, even feigning understanding if you are truly considerate. Because the implications of switching to Thai would be, "Gosh, his English is so horrible that even the farang had to speak Thai to him in the end!" -- true, but best left unsaid! After all, the alternative could be, "Gosh, I think he was struggling a bit -- English must be horrendously difficult to learn -- but that farang seemed really intelligent and polite and so they got by. I'm so glad it worked out..." majamaya, what I would have done in maxiewawa's scenario is to ask -- in English, not Chinese -- whether we could switch to Chinese. That way, the CS doesn't lose face; there's no implication that your Chinese is so much better than the CS's English that there's no point continuing to mess about in English. And in a way, asking for the switch in English smooths things because it establishes that yes, your language is English and further, you are acknowledging/ appreciating that he is able to provide service in your language if you need it. Poor CS is not there to help anybody practice English; his job is to help you buy a computer. So all things being equal -- ie he has enough English to sell you a computer, you have enough Chinese to buy one from him --, I'd be happy to go with any language choice really, whatever was smoothest. After all, once you have dealt with the CS for a few minutes, and both of you are comfortable with each other, you can always introduce some Chinese words to soften/ warm up the transaction. Aiyah, maxiewawa, you didn't need to force that poor CS to speak Mandarin -- you had nothing to learn from him, Mandarin-wise, and if his boss hired him as the "English Expert Staff", it's his duty to speak to customers in English! ;-)April 1, 2008
calkins says
Speaking of speaking in Chinese, I found out today that there are more Chinese in Taiwan who speak English than there are Chinese in Chicago's Chinatown who speak English :) Whenever I'm in Taiwan, everyone tries to speak to me in English, and of course I politely say "请说中文。(Qǐng shuō Zhōngwén.). I had lunch with a friend today in Chinatown. I believe the majority of Chinese there are bilingual in Chinese and English. And I just assumed that all Chinese working in stores would be bilingual, but I learned today that's not the case. After lunch, I went into a bookstore to buy a newspaper. I know I should have tried to speak Chinese to the clerk, but I couldn't remember the name for newspaper, so I asked in English "Do you sell Chinese newspapers?" She just looked at me and didn't say anything, with the "I don't understand" look on her face. All of a sudden "报纸 (bàozhǐ)“ came out of my mouth...well, to be honest, it was more like ”报子 (bàozi)" :) but she understood and immediately pointed to the newspaper stand. We then had a brief conversation in Mandarin (very small talk) and I took off with my newspaper (trad. characters, woohoo). I was first surprised that the clerk didn't know English, then even more surprised that I knew a word (well, kind of knew) that I thought I didn't. I wonder what else is up there in my noggin that I wasn't aware of! I think I'll start hanging out in Chinatown more often...it'll be great practice.April 1, 2008
auntie68 says
Hi calkins. You sound admirably Chinese culture shock-proof. I bet you'll enjoy a very warm welcome on your next visit to that shop. There is plenty of good Mandarin in your "noggin". When you are next in Taiwan, and everybody is trying to speak to you in English, try asking -- in English -- rather than Mandarin, eg. "Can we try speaking Mandarin? [or "Now we speak Mandarin, okay?"] I just want to learn." But only if that feels comfortable for you! If you ask in Mandarin, you might not knock them out of their "groove". At worst, you might sound like you're saying, "forget about the English, I don't need that because I'm fluent in Chinese" (although you would NEVER sound like that). The way you got that clerk to speak Mandarin was beautifully done! You put her at ease enough to go on to converse. That's great.April 1, 2008
maxiewawa says
I think the point is that the people serving sometimes SEE a face and HEAR a language. Instead of using their ears. Sorry for confusing you!April 1, 2008
calkins says
Auntie, this is a really good tip to know! I never thought to do this, but it makes perfect sense to save some face. It'd be nice to be able to converse 50/50 (half English/half Chinese), to give each person a chance to practice. I guess that's not realistic in most situations, but I'm definitely going to try your approach next time.April 1, 2008
auntie68 says
Well good luck! Let's hope it works for you. If that goes down well with your new Taiwanese friends, maybe they will even start doing all the work for you. Imagine this scenario: Somebody you've just been introduced to for the first time speaks English for "your" benefit, and your Taiwanese friends jump in to say (in Chinese), "Hey, forget the English; this Brett is a real nut, he only ever wants to speak Chinese!" Then all you have to say is, "哪里， 哪里...“ (na2li3, na2li3; "no way"/ "shucks") and maybe add a “开玩笑!" (kai1wan2xiao4; "they're joking!") if these are close friends. Sounds modest and friendly. If you're really not up to speaking Chinese, you can slip out of it by pleading, “哎哟， 我太累了！今天讲英语也好." (ai1yo1, wo3 tai4 lei4le! jin1tian1 jiang3 ying1yu3 ye3 hao3) = "Aiyo, I'm too tired! Today speaking English is also fine". That's reasonably diplomatic, and is not a firm "no".April 1, 2008
amber says
hi hitokiri, 都 (dōu) in this kind of a sentence adds emphasis. It cannot be omitted.April 2, 2008
hitokiri6993 says
多謝, amber.:)April 2, 2008
rharl says
I too got a kick out of 'language rapist' when cramming for two days just before a quick trip through Shanghai this week, but I didn't believe that would really happen... and then I walked through People's Park: twice a young couple said 'Hello?' and then birraged me with questions. One couple did ask me to follow them to a "traditional Chinese tea ceremony", which I was told later (by another rapist couple?) that such offers were a scam -- might you consider for a future Dear Amber an interview with a street-wise foreigner about what such scams are du jour in Shanghai (or elsewhere)? Btw, thanks so much for being in business -- Ken & Jenny have proven so helpful...April 23, 2008
light487 says
哈哈！ I bought a "Please Speak To Me In Chinese" T-shirt from John Pasden's website. :) I can wear it on Fridays when I go to work because we have casual day. :) I met a Chinese person today near my new office. He runs one of the many coffee shops at the Wynyard train station terminal. We were chatting about nothing in particular and he asked me what I was doing on the weekend because we have a long weekend. I said I wouldn't be doing much except may be to study a little. So naturally he asked me what I was studying and I said I am learning mandarin! :) He is very nice and offered to help me whenever I come to buy coffee. :) So slowly I am developing a network of people I can speak Chinese with. I will need to learn how to order my coffee in mandarin now so I can impress him.. haha! :) Also there is a young chickbabe that works there in the lunchtime hours and she also is Chinese.. so if I get to know them all well I will have more networks to chat with. Anyway.. I should get my T-shirt, along with ChinesePOD.com T-shirt on, or around, my birthday in May! :) What a nice birthday present! :)April 23, 2008
user15833 says
@pulosm - Everyone studying Chinese in Taiwan says the same thing about China - that people will speak less English to you, so it's easier to learn Chinese. It may me true that down south, there are a lot of Taiwanese who can't speak English, but in the cities, especially Taipei, where most foreigners come to study, it's nearly impossible to escape from English. Practically every person in Taiwan seems to either speak English or feel embarrassed when their English isn't good enough. (I've even had people avoid talking to me entirely because their English wasn't good enough, despite my pointing out, in Chinese, that they didn't need to speak English to talk to me - 哎呀!)May 21, 2008
marc__d says
May 30, 2008
I'm looking for comments on differences between 要 (yao4) and 想 (xiang3). In this lesson:
我想学习中文。
Why not:
我要学习中文。
Thanks in advance!
johnb says
May 30, 2008
@marcdevincentis, you can say both, but they convey different feelings. 要 is stronger than 想 -- I will study Chinese vs. I'd like to study Chinese, or something like that. 要 can indicate that something is to be done in the future: 你今天要做什么？我要学习中文。
matt1234 says
February 10, 2009
question about the supplemental vocabulary: can someone differentiate between when to use Pu3tong1hua4 vs Zhong1wen2 ?
My guess is that Pu3tong1hua4 is the particular spoken Mandarin dialect and Zhong1wen2 refers to the written characters. Please clarify. You guys are the best, thanks!
pearltowerpete says
February 10, 2009
Hi matt123
This question, believe it or not, has some political overtones!
普通话 pu3tong1hua4 literally means, the common language. Can you guess which side of the Taiwan strait it is popular on?
Taiwanese （and overseas Chinese and to a degree people living in the south of China) are much more likely to say 国语/國語, “the national language".
中文 can really be used for written or spoken Chinese, although maybe a bit more for written. Same goes for 汉语/漢語. Broadly defined, 汉语 includes all the Chinese languages. But as it is generally used, it means Mandarin.
pearltowerpete says
February 10, 2009
Hi matt123
Jiaojie just gave me some more information:
Pǔtōnghuà (Mandarin) is the standard national language in China. When foreigners study "Chinese," they generally learn Pǔtōnghuà.
If someone speaks a dialect and you don't understand, you can ask them: 你可以说普通话吗？ Can you speak Mandarin?
Zhōngwén includes Chinese speech and written language, and especially the characters of the Han race (as opposed to the minority ethnic groups in the PRC, some of which have their own letters--Pete).
Some sample sentences are:
我会说一点儿中文。 I can speak a little Chinese.
这是用中文写的，我看不懂。This is written in Chinese. I don't understand it.
changye says
February 10, 2009
Hi matt123
Let me supplement pete's explanation. As you expected, the term 普通话 implies that it's primarily a spoken language, just like Cantonese people call their dialect "白话". Chinese dialects are basically spoken languages, although it's technically possible to write down them.
By the same token, there are a lot of texts written in 普通话 in China, but please be noted that not all modern Chinese texts are written in 普通话. Some bookish (or academic) Chinese texts are more of 文言 (classical Chinese) than 普通话. Of course, there is no clear line between them.
P/S. Chinese linguists/scholars commonly use the term 汉语 for their books, book titles, and theses.
jofroger says
April 25, 2009
changye speaks alote!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
miantiao says
April 25, 2009
an extension to changye's excellent explanation.
语文,文学 literature. (high school students refer to chinese as a subject at school as 语文, rather than 普通话 or 文学 ）（我语文考不上了）.
语言 language. （外国语言，or simply 外语，foreign language)
英语 english language/spoken english. 英文 english literature. however, chinese will use them interchangeably. 我英语不太好，我英文不太好。
话 spoken word, 文 written word, 语 language.
tvan says
April 25, 2009
I won't pretend to know the subtleties in distinguishing between 普通话, 国语, and 中文. However, with regards to 普通话, I have frequently heard Chinese refer to their local dialect as 普通话 and Mandarin as 国语 or 汉语, especially in Guangzhou/Guangxi where local pride and prejudices run strong.
I'm not commenting on who's right or wrong, only that opinions vary in the Chinese community, both mainland and at large.
miantiao says
April 25, 2009
@tvan
there is a clear distinction between 四川话 and 普通话， for the very reason you have pointed out.
both terms refer to a spoken language.
my above post expands upon changye's explanation of the difference between written and spoken forms and terminology used to distinguish them.
in the end it doesn't matter whether you say
我中文只会一点点，我会一点点普通话。
incidentally,i have never heard anyone refer to their local dialect/language as 普通话。 taxi drivers in 广州 and 深圳 comment on my 普通话 and then ask if i can speak 广东话。上海 shopkeepers and taxi drivers have also commented on my 普通话 or 中文。whereas in 台湾 it is either 国语 or 中文。
there is a big difference between 普通话 and 国语, not so subtle as you suggest, and for obvious reasons.
it sounds somewhat strange that a person from 广东 would use普通话terminology to describe their own language. possibly, but i've never come across it before.
and if you speak to a chinese overseas, well, it will depend on from which side of the strait they come from.
中国话 is also a term i've heard before, in a popular nationalist song of recent times, to describe 普通话，and how they hope the world will all someday speak 中国话！I'm sure other poddies have heard this tune, very popular around a year or two ago leading up to the olympics.
miantiao says
April 25, 2009
some vocab:
散文 san3wen2 short story
小说 xiao3shuo1 novel
杂文/文章 za2wen2/wen2zhang1 essay
论文 lun4wen2 thesis.
方言 fang1yan2 local dialect/language
新闻报道 xin1wen2 news bao4dao4 report/article
篇 pian1 measure word for written pieces; chapter; a section; a part; books;volumes.
chris says
May 24, 2009
I find the biggest issue here, particularly at the lower intermediate level, is that even if you get past the first few exchanges, very quickly you'll get to a point where the other party is using too many words that you don't know, or grammar patterns that you don't know and personally, I think it is rude to expect them to keep repeating things or rephrasing things just so you can practice your Chinese. If their English is better than your Chinese, then it is a simple matter of politeness to allow them to use English.
Of course, the situation may be reversed in which case I would expect the other party to use Chinese.
My biggest single frustration at the moment is that my speaking is still so much further ahead of my listening ability - so whenever I do have a chinese conversation with someone, I'm forever trying to do all the talking and not letting the other person get a word in edgeways for fear of not understanding what they're saying!
wuqingbo51 says
May 24, 2009
ni3 zi4 ji3 wei4 shen2 me bu4 shuo1?你自己为什么不说？
Find some one the same level as yours to talk to.
找一个水平和你相同的人聊
找（zhao3）find
水平（shui3ping2）level