闽南语 and Taiwanese Origins' Drivel
tvan
July 15, 2009, 07:40 PM posted in General DiscussionThis random question seems to qualify as drivel and, for the siniphiles here, is probably an elementary question. Still, I met an older Taiwanese man who told me that many of the people now living in Fujian originally fled from Luoyang (洛阳）and that an older name for 闽南语 is 河洛语. Also, he says that some Taiwanese still call their patois 河洛语。 Also, similarly to Cantonese, he claimed that some poetry recited in Taiwanese sounds better because, similar to Cantonese, many ancient sounds are preserved in 闽南语。
A quick search on the web turned up this website, which confirms the correctness of the alternative name. However, I couldn't confirm the origin of the name. Has anyone ever heard of this? No big deal, just curious, neverending quest for knowledge, etc. This is
有没有福建人知道吗？ 闽南语是不是自从洛阳吗？
tvan
July 17, 2009, 03:51 AMHello cassielin,
谢谢你，我明白了。我的岳母是个潮州人，可是她不知道这个历史。中国的语言历史又复杂又很有意思。好像福建的闽语历史更复杂。
福州话是不是民东语？如果是的话我听过，但完全听不懂。:-(
cassielin
July 17, 2009, 05:27 AMHi tvan,
福州话是闽东话的代表，很多华侨将福州话传播到了世界的各个角落，我相信你可以在China Town听到很多中国人说福州话，因为他们都是福州人！呵呵！^_^
changye
July 17, 2009, 08:02 AMHi tvan
Here are two etymologies of "河洛话" I've found on the Internet.
闽南话又称河洛话，有两个版本的说法：
一：河洛话原本是商朝时的官话，商传至纣王为西方狄族(即周族)所灭，留在河洛一带的商民 上阶层者被迫迁至洛邑当奴工，营建新都成周，下阶层者被分配至卫、鲁、齐国当农奴，在东方尚存的几支顽强商族只好退回江南，利用丰富的资源发展工商业，而 居东南沿海者则形成越族后裔，河洛语之口音即源于商代 读书音源自古代汉语，故河洛语应称为「商汉语」或「古汉语」此种语言乃最具汉人本色之语言。
二：闽南语的发源地是在黄河、洛水流域，俗称“河洛话”，这是因为西晋时中原一带的林姓、黄姓、陈、郑、詹、丘、何、胡八大姓为避战乱南下，在无名江边定居，并把这条江定名为“晋江”，以示不忘自己是晋朝人。这样也把河洛话带到福建，并演变为闽北、闽中和闽南三种方言语系。在闽南人移民台湾后，把闽南话带到台湾。令人预想不到的是，原先说河洛话的地方早已不说河洛话了。
cassielin
July 16, 2009, 05:02 PMHi tvan,
虽然我是福建人，但是我不住在闽南地区，不会说闽南话！我会说的方言是福州话，不知道你有没有听说过呢？^_^
Regarding to your question,古代的时候，在黄河，洛水一代的中原汉族人为了躲避战乱，逃到了南方（现在的福建闽南一代地区），他们所说的语言（河洛语）就是在那时候传到闽南，后来随着人口的迁移，闽南语跨过台湾海峡，被传播到了台湾，而后慢慢传播遗留了下来！