How to make the ü sound (for those non-French, German, Turks out there)
pulosm
November 03, 2007, 02:44 AM posted in General DiscussionLots of people have trouble with the ü sound in Chinese (or any language). It's really easy to make though! Make the sound "i", but instead of doing it with your lips in the "i" sounds position, put your lips in the shape as if you were going to make a "u" sound. So, to say "qu," say "qi" with your lips in the puckered as if you were going to say "u."
Incidentally, this works for ö sound in Turkish, German, etc. Except, put your lips in the rounded "u/o" position as above, but pronoune "e" (as in eight)
I know this sounds crazy, but it totally works. It was a technique I came up with when I was a Chinese teaching assistant at my university for this girl who kept saying "chu" instead of "qu". Oh, and incidentally, some Taiwanese-first-language-speakers can't do the "ü" sound say they say "qi" instead of "qu". It's because they are related! (It's no coincidence that ü and i are the only letters than can EVER follow j/x/q in pinyin!!!!)
bingge
November 04, 2007, 04:42 PMexcellent trick - thanks! I always felt like I was making a train sound "choo-choo" when I said chuqu. this will help :)
henning
November 03, 2007, 09:14 AMwei1xiao4, you mean like 佳燕 from 寂州? http://chinesepod.com/learnchinese/a-jizhou-childs-warning/ That is just a regional accent thing.
pulosm
November 03, 2007, 02:19 PMYeah, weixiao, that's a regional accent. But, I think the "shi" actually comes out like "si", right? Sometimes the difference between "se" and "si" can be hard to catch at first, especially in rapid speech. Wildyaks, I have to admit, I am not sure how the ö really sounds in German. I was basing my thing on Turkish. It was Turkish that gave this idea. In Turkish, all vowels in a single (native Turish) word must have parity, i.e., they must be in the same family of sounds, so "i" "ü" "ö" "e" are all in one family and I tried to figure out why, because "a" "u" "o" and "i" (but without the dot, prouncounced KINDA like the "e" in pinyin) are in one family. It all has to do with the position your mouth makes when it produces the "e" and "i" sounds, as opposed to the other vowels, like "o" "u" and "a".... Anyway, I'm glad it works for Chinese!!!!
Joachim
November 03, 2007, 03:09 PMpulosm: Try the audio files at http://www.clip2go.de/deutsch-englisch/wl_Pronunciation+of+%22%F6%22+in+German_2865_0.htm for the Ö-sound. There is a kind of description how to pronounce it similiar to yours.
pulosm
November 03, 2007, 11:39 PMCool, thanks!
wei1xiao4
November 03, 2007, 09:08 AMGreat tip! Now what about shi. Some mandarin speakers seem to be saying "se" which totally confuses me. What do you advise?
pulosm
November 04, 2007, 03:27 AMTry my thing again, then, wildyaks. Say "eh" with your lips in an "o" position. I think you are right that is is like "sir" or "bird", but with tighter lips, maybe??? From what I gather, I'm no expert by any means....
henning
November 04, 2007, 05:52 AMwildyaks, öhh..I agree. It is indeed the "Sir" vowel. Actually ü was never much of an issue for me in Chinese (surprise, surprise). But the "r" and the "e" took me quite a while. I used to practice the latter with "do the puking sound".
Lantian
November 04, 2007, 01:19 PMIn isolation I can do it, it's the （rapid fire） combos that throw me, advice? I can now "hear" the difference, whereas in the past I was even able to "hear" it. 出去车 猪出去
pulosm
November 04, 2007, 02:01 PMLantian, I would just practice those words together, maybe, so you are "ready" for the rapid fire. For the ever-frequent 出去 combo, I would say that it shouldn't be too hard because your lips are alreadyin the "ch" and "oo" positions. So, after you say 出 don't relax your mouth, leave it as it is, and then prounounce the 去's ü (i.e., say "qi") with your mouth in the position it was for 出. Not sure. I spent hours coaching this girl in my class. Hours, maybe days. Finally she got it. I would say try to find all the likely word combos and practice those. At least you'll have those down. Go to the dictionary and write them down maybe and practice them. Like 绿色， 法律， 男女， 考虑， 取消， 需要， 等等. And ever difficult: 橘汁. Sorry if that wasn't helpful at all...
RonInDC
November 04, 2007, 02:11 PMHey, Pulosm. That's a good 'trick'. Thanks.
wildyaks
November 04, 2007, 01:01 AMthe ö sound - in my ears - comes very close to the vowel sound you make when saying "Sir" or "bird. Wouldn't you agree Henning?
wildyaks
November 03, 2007, 03:57 AMInteresting. Just tried it out...(I am (Swiss-)German speaker). and the ü works fine. Not sure with your ö-sound, though....