What does mean 纵予 ?
veronique21
July 24, 2014, 02:46 PM posted in I Have a QuestionHello everyone !
I've seen this word, 纵予, zòngyǔ, in an article about Chinese linguistics and I can't find anywhere what it means. Anybody knows ?
bababardwan
So I may be way off, but I'm wondering if this section it's in:
悠悠予心。纵予不往
means...longlasting my heart, unswerving in it's direction
bababardwan
ok, so here's a post where tingyun discusses which chinese-chinese dictionaries he's found best:
http://chinesepod.com/lessons/%E5%87%BA%E7%A7%9F%E7%99%BD%E4%BA%BA#comment-197507
bababardwan
nciku doesn't seem to have it either, but I can't click on the chinese section of the dictionary which is grayed out. Is that a subscription only section or something?
bababardwan
Wondering if it could mean block or obstruct from the context it's used in another passage I found:
具备了纵予的意思与拦阻
bababardwan
searching 縱予 isn't yielding any better results
bababardwan
hang on, I'm wondering if in terms of linguistics, it's some sort of conjunction
bababardwan
Looks like it might mean "concessive conditional" ...type of conjunction.....taking on the " even if" meaning of 纵 I guess.
veronique21
Hey Baba !
Thank you for your help, my friend ! I've found this word in this article: "即、便、就" 的历史关系
It seems to be a word and not 2 words, even if I can't find it in dictionnaries. Two sentences below:
表示纵予, 相当于 "即使, 纵使"。
表示纵予意义,一般看作连接词, 与时间副词的意义比较疏远, 在产生时间上也与副词不同步。
Yes, I think it's a sort of conjunction but I'd like to be sure of that and to be able to translate this mysterious word.
bababardwan
No worries at all Veronique. My pleasure. Just sorry I couldn't find a more definitive source.I think we were posting at almost same time and so you've probably missed my latest post. Looks like it might mean "concessive conditional" ...type of conjunction.....taking on the " even if" meaning of 纵 I guess
see this article:
http://www.airitilibrary.com/Publication/alDetailedMesh?docid=10152687-200911-201307220006-201307220006-99-145
bababardwan
Ah, yes, your article backs that meaning up also:
表示纵予, 相当于 "即使, 纵使
纵予 is equivalent to 即使 , 纵使...both meaning even if/even though
...so it means even if / even though ...which is a meaning 纵 holds by itself.
veronique21
I had seen the article of which you gave me link, but not the translation in English (it was on another website). OK, so it means "even if / even though"... Alright then, I must hang on to study the rest of my article... Again, Baba, thank you soooo much !!
bababardwan
July 25, 2014, 01:32 AMHey Veronique,
I haven't had much luck looking it up either. Sounds like a question for one of the teachers or tingyun.
It seems to translate as longitudinal, but I'm not convinced of that. Are you sure that both characters make a single word and it's not just two words?
I did find this usage of it:
在古文中“子”即“你”，“予”即“我”，正如2008年北京奥运会主题曲一样，子予寓意有你有我的互动、向上、爱恋的美好情愫。另外，诗云："青青子衿，悠悠予心。纵予不往，子宁不嗣音？ 青青子佩，悠悠予思。纵予不往，子宁不来？"
...which firstly made me think it would be a good question for tinyun. You will note earlier in that passage it says 予”即“我, which makes me wonder if 纵予 is effectively being used as two seperate characters. with 予 basically meaning 我.
I'd be interested to see the passage you found 纵予 used in...context might help.
Baidu chinese-chinese dictionary didn't help either. I know tingyun has some other good chinese-chinese dictionaries he uses as well as a good knowledge of ancient chinese.