When to use 把?
brendan
June 03, 2007, 10:37 PM posted in General DiscussionThe lesson about buying train tickets had the following sentence:
可以把机票送过来吗？
From the little I have read or understood, the 把 acts as a marker, allowing the object of the sentence to be put ahead of the verb. What I don't get is why a speaker would choose to do this? Is a change of emphasis being achieved? Or is the resulting sentence aesthetically more satisfying that any alternative. On that point, what would he alternatives be in this case?
I avoided adding this question to the lesson itself, as I felt the point was general enough.
franch
June 04, 2007, 12:50 AMBtw, such mental activity or passion expressing verbs as 认识 rènshi, 希望 xīwàng, 喜欢 xǐhuan, cannot stand 把. You can see why, can't you? 不会吧!
brendan
June 04, 2007, 09:42 AMHi Franch, Thanks a million for that explanation. And despite investing much mental activity (if not passion) into understanding why 认识, 希望 or 喜欢 cannot get along with 把, I indeed cannot figure it out. Please educate me!
franch
June 04, 2007, 10:49 AMHmm, I'm not a specialist in 词源 cí yuán (etymology), and neither am I a specialist in 词句 cí jù, if you see what I imply. But I think it safe to say that since the objects having 把 as a measure word (量词 liàng cí) means that they can be taken hold of, 把 as a verb meaning "to hold, handle" (and "handle" as a noun), the analogy by which it was used to "pull" the syntactic object to the fore hasn't been pushed as far as abstract objects such as thoughts and feelings. It's good to feel that I've grasped bǎ. In fact it was one of the first oddballs I seized in my learning, so I'm glad to use it to show off, but I never have actually uttered a sentence such as 可以把机票送过来吗？I've enough trouble with the English phrasal verbs, can't yet put up with the Chinese equivalents.
franch
June 04, 2007, 07:21 PM小心 - Beianqingfeng warns me that the 把足球 sentence costruction is scarcely ever used. That's right, so don't use it, but if ever you happen to read sth on that pattern, it is a kind of refutation (他把猪养得很好 : Pigs, he feeds quite well - You see why such sentences are not at all common :))
franch
June 04, 2007, 12:42 AMHi Brendan, The 把字句 bǎ zì jù (sentences using 把) are useful in two cases: 1- When the verb (动词 dòng cí) is already heavy with suffixes; e.g.: 我把这本小说看完了 wǒ bǎ zhè běn xiǎo shuō kàn wán le : I've finished this novel. (完 : complete +了: now). The verb is often loaded with "tails": verbal measure words ( 一下 ), directional verbs (拿 ná - 拿过来 : to pass sth on; 送sòng - 送回去 : to take sth back...) 2- When there is an adverbial clause marking DEGREE it puts emphasis on the object (cf. cleft sentences in English) E.g.: a) 他踢足球踢得很好 Tā tī zú qiú tī de hěn hǎo : He plays football quite well. b) 他把足球踢得很好 : (that one's context, for example, the guy is said to play rugby like a lame lamb) (But) he's quite good at 'football! The effect is slight, but making that point with football as an object is not the best choice. Anyway, I hope you got it right :)