Chapter 7

A while ago, it was decided that this site would temporarily be abandoned to give our third Musketeer the chance of concentrating on the swamp alligators and then rejoin us, victorious. Since it was my idea, I can safely say that it did not work.
So let’s try a different strategy. Let’s set up camp again, tackle ZAL, and hope that our shouts of triumph and noisy head-scratching will attract the occasional sneak-peek, perhaps even an on-the-spur-of-the-moment contribution and– maybe—eventually the full famous two cents of you know who and who knows... In other words: As of now READING will be continued.

ZAL, wherever she is, can be proud of her effect on us!

Please, I really am just brainstorming – not trying to force conclusions. After all we are working with both very diffuse and very complex matter ... Much as I am inclined to go on explaining what I said and mean, I suppose we better just continue the translation. Eventually some things may become clear.

0003 　　柳原问知.... Another deceptively simple sentence..... but what does 问知 mean? Did he know the number in advance, and asked for confirmation, or did he ask, and was told the number? Or is this an entirely different construction?

I was struck, too. My thinking goes: this is Chinese – extreme ability to analyse givens and invite association/conclusion. There is an act of asking, which precedes/ aims at an act of knowing. The person doing it is FL. He asked, now knows. No matter whom he asked – most likely the boy – er hat die Nummer in Erfahrung gebracht, sich nach der Nummer erkundigt (... not quite as efficient)

0005 那整个的房间 And what is the purpose of the 的?

整个 means entire, total-- the 的 is "adjectival", I think

0013 无用的 0014 女人是最最厉害的女人。Why does Liu Yuan have this opinion? Is it because he likes the good old days and the traditional family pattern? Or is it something else?

He is talking about a femme fatale (and means it as a compliment). Have you ever seen a cliche femme fatale who is dusting, cooking, changing diapers? No, she is useless, lounging in a mink coat and smoking cigarettes... ;)

0027 仿着北方人穿着扎 0028 脚裤 I don't understand this - does it have anything to do with the Japanese occupation of the North?

A feminine guess ;) 实在没有什么可看 0027 的，there is really nothing worth seeing, 除非是except 那些 those few怪模怪样的 weird 西崽Western guys，大热的天，who on hot days/in this hot climate 仿着北方人 offending people from the North穿着 are wearing 扎 0028 脚裤 roll up leg pants, their pant legs rolled up——”流苏道：“为什么？”柳原道：“中国情调呀！ Liusu asked:Why? And FLY answered: China is sentimental, i.e. the Chinese are so sensitive... ??????? !!!!!!!

I like your analysis of 问知. Two verbs, assumed to be happening after each other. Very minimalistic and Chinese.

I also believe your 整个 argument.

I think that Liu Yuan is talking more specifically about the role as a Chinese concubine - "you would be a 厉害的 concubine". That's not so far from what you are saying. My impression from reading books and seeing movies like "Raise the red lantern" is that the main difference between a concubine and a cliche femme fatale at least in some traditional households was that the former was property.

A wife was something different, for instance our dear fourth lady is not "useless", she is a force in the family that cannot be ignored.

Maybe what he says is really "I'm not interested in getting a wife, but you'd be on my short list for the position as concubine."

I have "西崽 〈trad.〉 servant in a foreign-owned establishment", but thats minor. More importantly I still don't understand why the sensitive Chinese are offended by the pants... is it just because it is western style?

My ??? were serious -- I am not SURE about the translation. If it stands, it is because -- I think -- traditional Confucian sensitivities were very anti bare flesh. Aha -- so those guys would not have been Westerners necessarily? Thank you! I only put 西 and 崽 together ... additions do not always work out!!

I just realized that the last bit before the new paragraph is rather fuzzy in my mind. 徐先生笑

0029 道： “既来到此地，总得去看看。就委屈你做做陪客罢！” 柳原

0030 笑道：“我可不能说准。别等我。”流苏见他不像要去的神气，徐

0031 先生并不是常跑舞场的人，难得这么高兴，似乎是认真要替她介

0032 绍朋友似的，心里倒又疑惑起来。

Yu urges Liusu to go to the Restaurant on the invitation of another friend. FLY is less than enthusiastic and Liusu begins to have her doubts. Can you put those in words?

0003 　　柳原问知.... Another deceptively simple sentence..... but what does 问知 mean? Did he know the number in advance, and asked for confirmation, or did he ask, and was told the number? Or is this an entirely different construction?

0005 那整个的房间 And what is the purpose of the 的?

0013 无用的 0014 女人是最最厉害的女人。Why does Liu Yuan have this opinion? Is it because he likes the good old days and the traditional family pattern? Or is it something else?

0027 仿着北方人穿着扎 0028 脚裤 I don't understand this - does it have anything to do with the Japanese occupation of the North?

re my question above: So she has set her mind on FLY and is worried for a moment that she was not brought here on his account and on his instigation? It is funny – I am on the lookout for her feelings, you admire her strategies! :)

0046 我认为好女人还是老实些的好 I'm not at all sure that I have got this .. what about "He felt that a good girl should also be nice."

I am not sure either – it is probably about good= „appearing chaste“ versus good = honest 老实 enough to admit -and act according to -her feelings. So actually I have it the other way around: A good girl might be all the better for being honest... Well – what does it matter finally – we hear him loud and clear as you said it before: in his book she is shortlisted

0058 真正的中国女人是世界上最美的 What's so Chinese about what she has said so far? The devious subtleness of civilization?

Goodness knows. Nothing of the above could not have been said by characters in a Western novel. What may be specific is her adamant resolve to hook him as a husband.

0060 大约就是指的洋派 "You probably meant Westernized."

I was leaning towards politics here: pro West -- but the difference is marginal and the problem of his identity is intense --

I think that we will hear more about her feelings later. But if you see anything already now that I don't see, please tell.

0046 我认为好女人还是老实些的好 I agree that 好女人 means the chaste girl with "approved by Confucius" stamped into her forehead.

But the word "老实" has several meanings - as you say, it can mean "frank, honest", but it can also mean "nice", or even "naive". I suspect that our flighty FLY would be more interested in the "nice" thing than in the "honest" (or even prefer a "naive" and good-looking bimbo, but he wouldn't tell Liusu that).

Not in an argumentative voice at all, just frankly puzzleder and puzzleder: Do we both still realize that Liusu is not a girl but a divorced woman? Her naivete can hardly be deep Confucian chastity-- To what degree will she just be considered damaged goods? To what degree is she already suspect of being less than compliant? We have no idea why she walked away from that former husband, do we?
And what, really, since we are at it with such a fine comb, does FLY mean when he says 柳原道：“一般的男 0045 人，喜欢把好女人教坏了，又喜欢感化坏的女人，使她变为好女 0046 人。我可不像那么没事找事做。我认为好女人还是老实些的好。 I might almost understand him as saying: Men are always telling women how to be -- when they are shy they teach them to be bad, when they are "naughty", they lecture them ... I like women the way they are.

You want to know about Liusu's feelings -- well, somewhere deep down she must be utterly charmed even if she knows this is just talk --- Wouldn't it be wonderful if he was honest?

Not in an argumentative voice at all, just frankly puzzleder and puzzleder: Do we both still realize that Liusu is not a girl but a divorced woman?

Yes.

Her naivete can hardly be deep Confucian chastity--

I don't think that she's naive.

To what degree will she just be considered damaged goods? To what degree is she already suspect of being less than compliant? We have no idea why she walked away from that former husband, do we?

She's definitely damaged goods, and she must know. I have thought about why she left her first husband, but I don't know the answer.

And what, really, since we are at it with such a fine comb, does FLY mean when he says ...

Yes, that's the sentence we have been discussing for a while now. I agree that it is important for understanding Liuyuan, and I also agree with your reading of the first lines. I still suspect him of shallowness, but I don't have a smoking gun to show, and I'm not sure that he really says "I like women the way they are".

You want to know about Liusu's feelings -- well, somewhere deep down she must be utterly charmed even if she knows this is just talk --- Wouldn't it be wonderful if he was honest?

Possibly she thinks so. But I don't think that we know that.

I'll try:

0030 流苏见他不像要去的神气，徐 0031 先生并不是常跑舞场的人，难得这么高兴,

Liusu noticed that he was not keen on going, but that Mr. Xu who was not a dancing man seemed excited about it,

0031 似乎是认真要替她介 0032 绍朋友似的，心里倒又疑惑起来。 as if he was actually going to introduce her to friends, which made her unsure (about why she was in Hong Kong).

0041 譬如说，我爱你，我一辈子都 0042 爱你 I wonder if tells this to every girl... and so does Liu Su.

0046 我认为好女人还是老实些的好 I'm not at all sure that I have got this .. what about "He felt that a good girl should also be nice."

0055 你这话不对 So, after all that noise, he admits that he did understand her. And Liu Su of course immediately knows that that is the main point. She's got him now, he is intrigued by her.

0058 真正的中国女人是世界上最美的 What's so Chinese about what she has said so far? The devious subtleness of civilization?

0060 大约就是指的洋派 "You probably meant Westernized."

0061 中国化的外国人，顽固 0062 起来 "very conservative" - I suppose in the sense of supporting the old fashioned Chinese life style. But Liusu is about to turn his words around...

0066 因为交情还不够深，没 0067 有到吵嘴的程度 She's a clever girl.