Chapter 9

0001 　　流苏嗔道：“你自己承认你爱装假" When did he do that?

0012 不由自主的就往下溜。The "往下" would mean "toward Vain Amusements" I suppose?

0013 流苏试着想象她是第一次看见她四嫂 This is to completely understand Liuyan's shock as he met his family?

0014 “还是那样的好.. I think that what she is saying here is : "It would not have been better for you to grow up in your family - I know all about that road."

0029 只有十来岁的女孩子 "ten year old girls" ... what about 来 ?

0037 懒倒也有懒的好处！It seems to me that he is making conversation again. I don't think there is any method in this madness, and it was not a good move to bring up Sahaayini.

0039 　流苏只是不理他 That's my girl.

0041 原来范柳原是讲究精神恋爱的。In the following discussion Liusu seems rather detached. She considers the best strategy to get married, and she is right about the strategies of course, but this might not be the point. Her actions are not based on clever strategies, she is not playing a game. This is not 三国演義. On the other hand, if she does not get married to Liuyuan, she will be in a very difficult situation, without family and friends.

0062 她不免略具戒心 I am comfused by 略具 - they seem like opposites to me "slightly very careful".

0001 　　流苏嗔道：“你自己承认你爱装假" When did he do that?

The way I understand it: right now by hoping so much they could be honest with each other. She says: If you want to confess that you are a liar – ok, but don’t imply me too --

0012 不由自主的就往下溜。The "往下" would mean "toward Vain Amusements" I suppose?

Mhmm, falling to temptations of all kinds

0013 流苏试着想象她是第一次看见她四嫂 This is to completely understand Liuyan's shock as he met his family?

Yes, obviously – and it gives us an idea that in her eyes Fourth Lady is the epitomy of China’s old society (or the reaction to it) at its worst

0014 “还是那样的好.. I think that what she is saying here is : "It would not have been better for you to grow up in your family - I know all about that road."

What I understand is that she says he was lucky – because at least he could feel that what he saw here was foreign to him, he was no part of it. She however did not even know to what degree she was involved/tainted by it herself. This is very stark--- a kind of cultural self-hatred ... wonder if it is a ZAL specialty?

0029 只有十来岁的女孩子 "ten year old girls" ... what about 来 ?

with numbers it seems to mean „about“

0037 懒倒也有懒的好处！It seems to me that he is making conversation again. I don't think there is any method in this madness, and it was not a good move to bring up Sahaayini.

Yes, it is very strange how he lapses into a very unpleasant, almost aggressive jocularity. But – if you can bear with me taking his side a little... there was something in Liusu’s reaction (of looking consciously alluring) which might have disappointed him. He appears to be quite sensitive and intent on meeting her on a personal level, as a human being... Yes -- and then, of course, he slips, too....

0039 　流苏只是不理他 That's my girl. Ah, I know, I have to watch it when I am unkind towards her! ☺

But what is he doing on the dark way home? Is he „getting fresh“, making jokes? So that she regains her calm only when they return to the hotel? 他一路赔着小心，低声下气，说说笑笑， 0040 她到了旅馆里，面色方才和缓下来

0041 原来范柳原是讲究精神恋爱的。In the following discussion Liusu seems rather detached. She considers the best strategy to get married, and she is right about the strategies of course, but this might not be the point. Her actions are not based on clever strategies, she is not playing a game. This is not 三国演義. On the other hand, if she does not get married to Liuyuan, she will be in a very difficult situation, without family and friends.

精神恋爱 how do you actually translate this?

Somehow I feel that this is what I said a while ago, that her Chinese-ness consists mainly in her adamant decision to make him marry her. When I read those thoughts of her I feel quite estranged as a Western woman – we have been brought up to have so many very high flying notions of love, closeness, understanding --- what she is thinking here sounds SO down to earth, SO practical--- I have to tell myself all the time that she comes from a very different culture, is so to say standing on the brink of an abyss and simply needs to act. So – right now I am very puzzled how to deal with her, how to feel for her, judge her.
I really do not want to make any firm statement – I cannot explain or judge many of her thoughts or reactions– I am constantly wavering and have to correct my conclusions.

0062 她不免略具戒心 I am comfused by 略具 - they seem like opposites to me "slightly very careful".

略具 seems to be about the same as 一 點 , "she could not avoid a little carefulness/caution", i.e. she had to be careful

0014 “还是那样的好.. I think that what she is saying here is : "It would not have been better for you to grow up in your family - I know all about that road."

What I understand is that she says he was lucky – because at least he could feel that what he saw here was foreign to him, he was no part of it. She however did not even know to what degree she was involved/tainted by it >herself. This is very stark--- a kind of cultural self-hatred ... wonder if it is a ZAL specialty?

This interpretation fits with her words, but it does not fit his answer! If that is all she says, why would he answer "You are right, maybe it was just a pretext"? Of course it is possible that he reads something into her words that is not there. I was thinking that the night was magic, so that the two really understood each other. But considering it now, I think that a misunderstanding between them here would be something Zhang could do to both them and to us.

As for the cultural self hatred... I find it easy to understand that a Chinese in 1941 could hate the old culture. Especially a woman. And for different reasons, when I think of what the West did to the rest of the world in the last few centuries and to itself in the first half of the 20th century I can feel quite uneasy about my own culture.

0037 懒倒也有懒的好处！It seems to me that he is making conversation again. I don't think there is any method in this madness, and it was not a good move to bring up Sahaayini.

Yes, it is very strange how he lapses into a very unpleasant, almost aggressive jocularity. But – if you can bear with me taking his side a little... there was something in Liusu’s reaction (of looking consciously alluring) which might have disappointed him. He appears to be quite sensitive and intent on meeting her on a personal level, as a human being... Yes -- and then, of course, he slips, too....

That's true, he seems to be more open on a personal level. But don't forget that he has all the good cards. He can afford to make mistakes, Liusu cannot.

0039 　流苏只是不理他 That's my girl.

Ah, I know, I have to watch it when I am unkind towards her! ☺

:)

But what is he doing on the dark way home? Is he „getting fresh“, making jokes? So that she regains her calm >only when they return to the hotel? 他一路赔着小心，低声下气，说说笑笑， 0040 她到了旅馆里，面色方才和缓下来

I think that they were having a lot of fun on the way... I have "低声下气" ="softspoken and submissive".

精神恋爱 how do you actually translate this?

Good question... I don't believe that it means "platonic love". I would assume "love which is not only sensual". But I admit that I don't know for sure.

Somehow I feel that this is what I said a while ago, that her Chinese-ness consists mainly in her adamant decision to make him marry her. When I read those thoughts of her I feel quite estranged as a Western woman – we have been brought up to have so many very high flying notions of love, closeness, understanding --- what she is thinking here sounds SO down to earth, SO practical--- I have to tell myself all the time that she comes from a very different culture, is so to say standing on the brink of an abyss and simply needs to act. So – right now I am very puzzled how to deal with her, how to feel for her, judge her.

I really do not want to make any firm statement – I cannot explain or judge many of her thoughts or reactions– I am constantly wavering and have to correct my conclusions.

Yes, and that makes it so interesting! My impression is that in traditional society the Chinese didn't stress feelings as much as we do. There were certain absolute demands on a woman, but they were about what she should and especially what she should not do, not so much about what she should feel. On the other hand, of course Liusu has feelings. But I am not sure that it is easy for us to read them.

Maybe at this point it is easier not to quote quotes of quotes anymore. I hope it is still clear enough.

The dialogue concerning „cultural self-hatred“ – „pretext“. At this point (after pondering all your input) I see them as saying:

FLY: When I came here at age 24, still somehow innocent, I was shocked by what I encountered, after all I was completely unprepared for so much viciousness. In reaction to it I became as depraved as I am now.

LS: At least you know that you are not part of it – it is worse to feel that you are tainted/involved, too.

FLY: True, maybe what I said was a CHEAP EXCUSE (this is my interpretation of petext)... (sc. after all I was not forced to become so cynical)... but then: why am I looking for excuses at all--- I feel like it, I have the money and the leisure... so why not go for it? (And then he gets thoughtful again) But I still don’t understand myself. Can you understand me?

And at this point her becoming "female and alluring" may be a fateful mistake --- not her fault but a built-in trap --- at least it prevents a meaningful continuation of their dialogue.

Thank you for the 低声下气! That fits my ideas of his style much better.

The term „platonic“ ocurred to me, too, but it can’t be used here, you are right. I guess we both know what we mean: He has a dimension beyond sheer sexual interest - and I would say that ZAL gives us some proof of it. But – this is obvious, too: he is not very strong emotionally. There might, after all, have been other reactions to the disappointment he suffered than what he chose. Actually, he admits that himself. (see above)

I am very thrilled to continue watching this drama – ZAL definitely does not spoon-feed unenlightened foreigners. We know so little about both our main characters – not only factually/personally but also culturally. And we don’t have an ear to catch their undertones... What do you say --- shall we just continue our way through the nightly jungle? (And disregard all of the above if it bothers you-- it is not cast in concrete, just my momentary foothold.)