Group talk..

lmoo

September 30, 2008, 10:38 AM

Hey guys,

As I said in my sms, I think we should split it up into 1) Lili, 2) Liu Xiang and then 3) Zhang Liang & his friend. I reckon everyone could share the other 4 lines (the recording voice on the phone and the 'other woman'--the office lady).

Zhang Liang seems still quite distraught about Lili, he doesn't want to take any nonsense from his friend at the bar. Lili on the other hand seems to be angry and totally over Zhang Liang.. I guess she's got her new rich man to hang around with now. Liu Xiang is very happy that he's got Lili back. I think he's genuinely a nice guy- he's head over heels for her: "laotian you gei le wo mibu de jihui" and "xiangxin wo, zheme duo nian le, wo xinli yizhi zhiyou ni yi ge". He loves her! yay!

Laura

sben

October 10, 2008, 03:19 AM

Hi Lou, interesting comment on the use of " 死心". I think that word embodies the entire theme of these dialogues - dying love and broken hearts. Although I sense that Zhang Liang still has quite a lot of spirit in him. We've had such a lot of insight into the characters this time round! A really enjoyable focus for our project.

Sophie

kkru

October 01, 2008, 12:40 PM

Hi team!

I agree with Lou, this idea seems to be the most equitable.  I think that the idea of reprising our roles from the original, i.e. Lou as Lili, Sophie as Liu Xiang, and myself as Zhang Liang and friend, seems a very good idea.

Good idea about the meeting.  I think that the earlier we start, the better.

Thinking about this performance, I'm reminded of the words of my close personal friend, Konstantin Stanislavski, and the importance of method acting to find this theatrical truth.  I believe that, through a comprehensive analysis of the character's motivations and experiences, we can truly comprehend the character, in and of itself.  Through the Stanislavski technique, we can truly give a better performance.  I think that we should release the gravity hooks and blue sky this production, stat!

I believe Lili to be an inherently conflicted character.  From last semester's dialogues, she seemed to be highly changeable, though undoubtedly a loving character.  Here, she is not quite sure if she has done the right thing in breaking it off from Zhang Liang, but wants to succeed with her new fling, Liu Xiang.

Zhang Liang seems to be trapped between his public persona and his Id, to use Freud's term.  He wants to appear strong for Lili, so that she will be able to move on and be happy, whilst sub-consciously desiring her back.  As such, in public he will display outward politeness, particularly highlighted in the scene where he meets Liu Xiang.  However, I believe that he still wants after Lili, and will try to blend this into a subtle, nuanced presentation.

Liu Xiang seems like a decent person, trying to make the best of an awkward situation.  He appears to exhibit many of the traditional Chinese sensibilities, such as modesty and the deflection of compliments, though seems to be a fiery character when offended. 

The friend, Zhenhua, seems like a one dimensional character.  He seeks to back up his friend, though doesn't think of the cost or consequences of his actions.

Thoughts?

Karl A. Kruszelnicki

lmoo

October 06, 2008, 12:18 AM

I totally agree with Karl. You've really gotten to the bottom of the characters.

I thought I'd talk about some of the lines in "seeking comfort". In Lili’s first line she uses 才 to emphasise the subject (i.e. “you” = Liu Xiang), thus the phrase she uses means “it is you who is the busy one!”. In the same paragraph she also uses a rhetorical question using 哪敢 as in “how could I dare?”. In response to Lili, Liu Xiang says “你跟别人可不一样。我再忙，都要挤出时间来见你”where the 可 emphasises the “not the same”. It basically means “very” in this context. There is also a grammar structure in this phrase- Subject再Adjective，都..  which means “no matter how (adjective)..”. I guess it is similar to the 无论 structure we have learnt in class.   meaning that she can’t laugh. We have learnt this grammar structure before—the phrase actually means “the laugh cannot come out”.

I found this phrase by Liu Xiang really interesting-- 在我们眼里你永远都是开心果，好像每天都有笑不完的事. It means "In our eyes you're always a 'pistachio' as if every day you cannot stop laughing/have so much to laugh about”. Now this is kinda weird in English. We certainly don't have a phrase like "you're a pistachio". Jenny (from Chinesepod) said that in China, pistachios are ‘happy nuts’. And a ‘happy nut’ can also mean a ‘happy person’. Thus Liu Xiang is saying she’s always a happy person. However Jenny also said this is quite cheezy and old-fashioned so it seems Liu Xiang is either totally in love with Lili (and chuffed he gets a 2^nd chance) or he’s one of those sleazy cheezy guys but I think we all agree he’s definitely the former.

After Liu Xiang’s pistachio line, Lili uses 笑不出来

Another interesting point is when Liu Xiang uses 对不起 when Lili tells him she broke up with Zhang Liang. At first I thought he meant that he was sorry that they broke up (but he’s not—because it means he gets Lili now). He actually uses对不起 because he’s sorry he brought the issue up.

So this dialogue is full of interesting points that we should take into account.

Laura

lmoo

October 06, 2008, 08:08 AM

In my above message it seems to have left out a little bit when I've said "After Liu Xiang’s pistachio line, Lili uses 笑不出来".What it was meant to be was:

After Liu Xiang's pistachio line, Lili uses "xiao bu chu lai" meaning that she "can't laugh". We have learnt this structure before- its interesting because it actually means "the laugh can't come out".

lmoo

October 07, 2008, 11:01 PM

Hey Karl & Soph,

I just went through "The Other Woman" (第三者), and thought I'd go through a bit of the detail.I think this dialogue is quite realistic (maybe more so for Chinese people). In the podcast, John said that its a big 'sin' to turn off your mobile phone when you've got a Chinese female partner. I can understand where the women are coming from!! But anyway, this misunderstanding will have serious consequences for Zhang Liang's and Lili's relationship-- and we've already seen the result-- they've broken up!

In Lili's first line she uses 要不. We haven't learnt this word yet but it basically means "How about if I..?" or "Why don't I..?". It's like you're pausing to think. When the recording says 您所拨打的电话已关机, the 所 provides empahsis on what you have done. For example you can say "wo suo shuo de hua" meaning "the things I have said". 拨打 is just a more formal version of 打.The 关机 means 'to turn off' and it can be used for any type of machinery (like in English).

In Lili's line 原来是忙着跟女同事一块儿加班 the 忙着 means "busyily/you're busy (doing something)". In Zhang Liang's reply, he uses 我们一大帮 meaning a big group of us (however we're not quite sure whether its a group of 10 or a group of 2...).

Lili uses 了 in the line 你别解释了. I didn't really pick up why this was until Jenny mentioned it-- if Lili didnt use the 'le' and just said 你别解释, she would be saying "Don't explain". However with the 'le' on the end, it means "Stop explaining" (as Zhang Liang has already started explaining).This is something really useful to know. Also Lili says 你们男人都一个样 where the 一个样 doesn't just mean "all the same", its meaning is more like "exactly the same type".

Maybe we should meet up on friday arvo for a couple of hours to go through the line? Or should we leave it until next week so this weekend we can practice our lines by ourselves? otherwise we might be wasting our time..?

Laura

lmoo

October 09, 2008, 05:43 AM

Hey Karl and Soph,

I thought I'd give a bit of info on the other dialogues to set the scene..

Confiding in a friend--Lili is very angry/jealous when chatting about Zhang Liang and "the other woman" FeiFei. I think many women all over the world could probably relate to this- in my mind I stereotype men as more likely to cheat (sorry Karl) so I can kinda see why Lili is so tensed up. Maybe this is different for you both..

The Break Up-- The main thing to notice here is that Zhang Liang and Lili are both just jealous of their partner's friends (Liu Xiang and FeiFei). I think if their relationship was stronger they could have pulled through the jealousy- however maybe neither actually wanted to be in the relationship?

A Dad gives advice to a broken-hearted son-- Zhang Liang is quite fiesty with his dad, while the father is emphathetic and soft with his son. It's a shame Zhang Liang doesn't realise the sincerity behind his father's voice, and appreciate the advice he is hearing. I think Zhang Liang is quite rude to his dad. This dialogue is in contrast to what I would have thought for a Chinese family- where is the respect for the father? The least Zhang Liang could do would be to thank his dad and leave it at that. He is acting very 'Western', and not Chinese at all.

 

It’s Over-- I think Zhang Liang's heart gets broken in this dialogue. Lili is moving to down under and is ENGAGED. There is no hope left. Poor Zhang Liang. I don't think Lili realises how hard this is all on Zhang Liang. I think she still loves him, deep inside her heart, and it will come out soon :)

It's over again-- There is most definitely no hope for Zhang Liang now..

 

What do you guys think?

Laura

 

sben

October 01, 2008, 08:54 AM

Hi guys, I'm happy to be reprising our roles! I agree with Lou, let's split the dialogues up into Lili/LX/ZL and friend so it's relatively equal. Shall we meet up after the break to do our first run-through?

Sophie

sben

October 09, 2008, 06:19 AM

Ps. Regarding our presentation - I think "The Other Woman" will probably be the most challenging dialogue to present, given that it all takes place over the telephone. Any ideas on how we can best make use of the space while keeping the audience engaged? Perhaps the key is to place two desks side by side, facing the room, so that the audience have full view of Lili and Zhang Liang's facial expressions as they talk to each other. This dialogue has the potential to be quite comical, if it's done right! 

I can't wait to get together and start rehearsing. Is Saturday morning ok with both you? I thought we could meet up in the morning for an hour or so, as we did last semester. Hope we can find a time that suits everyone.

Sophie

lmoo

October 09, 2008, 08:44 AM

Hey Soph,

Your idea for the phone conversation is wonderful! I really think that will be effective!

Unfortunately I can't do saturday morning as I'm meeting my mum at 10:45. What do we need to run through? I'm free tomorrow afternoon from 3-5? Can you do then?

Laura

 

sben

October 09, 2008, 08:54 AM

Hi again,

I've just been reading through our posts and realise that Laura and I had the same question regarding Lili's use of 可 in “你跟别人可不一样".Thanks for helping me to understand that it is used purely for emphasis, Lou! Although I find that 可 itself is still quite difficult to apply on account of its many meanings, e.g. can, very, but, suit, approve, etc. I suppose that confidence with using this is something that comes in time and with speaking Chinese more fluently.

I also took a look at "Uncomfortable Encounter in a Bar" and found something for discussion... when Zhang Liang's friend offers to treat him to drinks, Zhang Liang says, "Of course, the more expensive the better!" This struck me as really unusual given all the other dialogues we've read about people "fighting for the bill", which is characteristic of the Chinese culture. Zhang Liang doesn't show any embarassment over his friend's offer to pay...in fact, he comes across as slightly presumptuous! So, is Zhang Liang more Western in his outlook, is he naturally rude, or is this just the way of the younger generation? Food for thought!

See you in class tomorrow morning.

Sophie

sben

October 09, 2008, 08:55 AM

Hi Laura, looks like we're posting simultaneously! I can't do tomorrow afternoon unfortunately. Let's figure something out via text...maybe next week is best?

Sophie

lmoo

October 09, 2008, 09:22 AM

Hello!

OK next week for sure. Thats an interesting point about Zhang Liang. I hadn't picked that up. I think it's probably a combination of his upbringing in America and it being a younger generation thing. In the dialogue "A dad gives advice to a heart-broken son", i felt that Zhang Liang was being a little rude to his dad and was not being as respectful as we would assume for a Chinese son talking to his Chinese father. I reckon maybe this has something to do with Zhang Liang's response to his friend.

I went through "Uncomfortable encounter in a bar" in more detail and came up with some interesting points. The word 铁公鸡 used by Zhang Liang is funny! It actually means "iron rooster". Now why would he call his friend an iron rooster? (in english its translated as a scrooge). The meaning behind it is if a rooster is made of iron, you can't pull out a single feather--> i.e. you don't let go of any of your possessions (e.g. money). So it means that your "tight" in colloquial english. Also be careful not to think that 错过 is something like "have made a mistake"-- it actually means to miss an opportunity. It has nothing to do with mistakes!

I remember in last semester's play I had the line "怎么这么巧!" meaning "what a coincidence". In this dialogue I have a very similar line again! This time its "怎么这么倒霉". 倒霉 = bad luck, so the phrase means "What bad luck" or "Just our luck". I think this structure is really handy.

It's interesting that Zhang Liang's friend retalliates so fiercely to Liu Xiang especially when Liu Xiang was being so polite-- 你们要喝什么？我请客。哦，对了，这位怎么称呼？He offers them both a drink on him, and we can see that he's being polite (mostly for Lili I assume) by looking at his use of 位. In addition, that whole phrase is in polite form as the more colloquial way to say what he is asking is "Zhe ge ren jiao shenme mingzi?".

Another interesting word is 小人. It is not the opposite of "daren" meaning adult, it actually means a petty person/ someone whose tolerance is 'small' or their way of thinking is 'small'/narrow.

In the paragraph after xiaoren, Liu Xiang uses the word 素质 which is basically one's social education/ cultural upbringing etc. If you don't have any suzhi, you would be the kind of person who cuts in line (damn those people!), shouts loudly, has a foul mouth, gets into fights etc. Just someone with no respect for culture and social behaviour.

And lastly ín Zhang Liang's friend's last big paragraph, he uses the word 死心 which is quite a weird match of characters! Its a mix of "to die" and "heart/soul". It basically translates as to lose hope/ to give up but I think it must have originally had a much deeper meaning.

Alrighty then, keep me posted! haha

Lou

 

 

 

 

 

sben

October 09, 2008, 06:12 AM

Hi guys,

Here are my thoughts! The comment about the mobile phone applies cross-culturally, it would seem! It is really interesting to see how the Chinese and Western ideas intersect in this area.

In "The Other Woman", I was most interested in the use of "guaibude" as opposed to "nanguai". What is the exact translation of "guaibude", and what type of situation dictates this different usage? Lili is also quite sarcastic in this dialogue, such as when she says "Am I interrupting your private time together?" I wonder if sarcasm is used frequently in Chinese, or if it's more of a modern trait?

I don't feel that we've gone into much detail about "Seeking Comfort". The first line that struck me was "Ni gen bieren ke bu yi yang", meaning "it's different with you than with other people". What is the function of "ke" in this sentence? Is it derived from "ke shi", do you think? Or is it used purely for emphasis? 

Also, do you notice how Lili only mentions the fact that her and Zhang Liang have broken up quite far into the dialogue? I think there might be three reasons for this - 

1) Because it's a difficult subject to broach with Liu Xiang given their history, and she'd rather delay its discussion (or maybe she isn't entirely "over it", as she claims);

2) She wants to "take it out" on Liu Xiang by telling him off for his lack of contact, before admitting to the truth;

3) She's naturally reserved. This last reason might make sense within the context of the Chinese culture, in which people avoid "laying their cards on the table", instead choosing to express their feelings in a more subtle way.

Any thoughts?

Sophie