Nick and Joel's Discussion
nmar
October 04, 2008, 05:54 AM posted in General DiscussionHey Joel,
So the discussion begins!
Ive just had a look at the first two dialogues and it looks like the play should progress quite interestingly. The first one saw LiLi try to ring ZhangLiang when he was working overtime, and she overreacted a little when a female colleague answered instead, especially with the call that 你们男人都一个样 . I guess we will see if her suspicions were correct or if ZL's phone really was dead.
With the 'conniving friend' one, LL talks to a friend in the aftermath of the above phonecall where she reveals her suspicions. The reason it is called 'conniving friend' is that LL's friend is actually the one who expressed an interest in ZL at the end of the last play so in this one she subtlely tries to persuade LL that ZL isnt right 'for her'. This will add further drama to the play as her involvement in the play will maybe become more significant. So so far LL feelings for ZL appar to be weakening, like ZL's were at the end of the last play...
cant wait to find out what happens next!!!haha
nmar
October 12, 2008, 01:49 AMoh and yes im pretty sure we are performing the final one...and even if we are not meant to im sure we can still do it anyway...
jwin
October 10, 2008, 03:00 AMCheers! Looks like you've done a pretty good job of those. Sorry for coming a bit late to the party.
This fits in well with all the Chinese pop music I’ve been listening too…
So with the clichés flying the plot thickens, and we come to "Seeking comfort" and the return of Liu Xiang, the Old Flame and internet millionaire! That ever busy Liu Xiang: 每天不是上电视就是上报纸. How could Lili, 她只是一个平凡人,dare to take the initiative to contact him? But Liu Xiang tells her that she’s not like other people, and he’d always have time for her.
Anyhow, Lili tells Liu Xiang that she has been feeling a bit down lately, setting up Chinesepod’s 最妙语双关 (pun) 之一: 怎么了？这可不像你。在我们眼里你永远都是开心果. You have always been the pistachio of our eyes!
It goes on… She broke up with Zhang Liang etc. etc. and it gets super soppy with some serious sweet talking as Liu Xiang makes his move, with some of these fairly familiar strategies:
是他不懂得珍惜(zhen1xi1 - cherish)你。
我想能照顾(zhao1gu – care for)你的男人肯定是这世界上最幸福的男人。
我是世上最笨的人，因为我失去(shi1qu4 – lose)了你。
Lili is her usual vacuous (空洞的?) self.
Liu Xiang sums up with this line that I think encapsulates the thrust of his argument: 相信我，这么多年了，我心里一直只有你一个。Trust me, all these years, it’s only been you in my heart.
jwin
October 10, 2008, 04:24 AM“Uncomfortable encounter in a bar” really is an uncomfortable encounter in a bar!
Zhang Liang’s buddy Zhenhua offers to take Zhang Liang out to a new bar. 他请客, which must be highly unusual. 啊哟，Zhang Liang exclaims, 你这个铁公鸡(tiěgōngjī – stingy person)总算请客了. This is probably Zhenhua’s generous effort at cheering up Zhang Liang after unfortunate recent events.
This particular exchange seems fairly authentic:
Zhenhua: 你想喝什么，随便点！
Zhang Liang: 当然是越贵越好了！
随便点 is an interesting phrase, 随便 meaning freely, or “easy" (随便女孩),“as one wishes" as Chinesepod puts it in this lesson, “so order as you wish"
Then disaster strikes, as Zhenhua spots Lili and Liu Xiang, offering us a new chengyu: 冤家路窄 - enemies often cross paths.
After some frosty exchanges by all parties, (张亮，好久不见。你好吗?), and Liu Xiang goes all modest on them again ( 咳，都是媒体(méitǐ – media)宣传(xuānchuán – to publicise)的) things get nasty when he too offers to qing ke. (This is also a fun exchange). Zhenhua gets angry on Zhang Liang’s behalf， 他不想认识他这种小人. Liu Xiang retorts 他也不想认识他这种没素质(sùzhì – social graces）的人.
Zhenhua: 什么？你再说一遍！说啊！
When Zhang Liang tries to stop him, Zhenhua then flies off the hook at him, berating him for being useless, and in the presence of the man who stole his girlfriend doing nothing but brooding. He tells him he warned him that Lili and Liu Xiang’s relationship wasn’t just ordinary. Etc. etc. At least he can give up hope (死心) a little earlier now.
All Zhange Liang can say is你烦不烦？别说了, which could translate as “could you be any worse? Shut up.”
As a little coda I’ll post this excellent little ditty I’m listening to now (from that USB of Andrew’s). I’m sick of Zhang Liang and Lili now. I need to take a break.
相信未来》-动静乐团
我怎么还在记忆里徘徊
一个我最爱的人已不在
从没想到你竟然狠心这样
看着最爱你的人选择离开
手机号码还在
随时都开 为了你不能改
总在期盼哪天你真的会打来
爱在我心里面像个小孩要呵护依赖
没有人可以一口气说个明白
等待你接受我的爱
等待我给你的未来
让我这样抱紧着你不放开
我要你接受我的爱
相信是上天的安排
让我可以手牵着你
永远不要分开
jwin
October 11, 2008, 06:49 AMOk, the first “it’s over”, the soppy and sentimental one. Lili and Zhang Liang meet at the same Café as their first eoncounter. And Zhang Liang reminisces, Lili, you still drink Mocha?
Lili: ng.
But this times, 你我都变了. You and I have both changed. 是啊,Lili replies, and I thought this kind of thing only happened in novels, In ever thought I would experience it myself!
The rest of it is a very typical soapy sentimental reminiscence, packed full of emotive vocabulary冲动, 原谅, 等等. Lili’s life has changed a lot, 都有点接受不过来, whilst Zhang Liang is the same as always, 每天上班、加班、下班. A new chengyu is added to our vocabulary: 有缘无分 – “destined to meet but not to be”. Etc. etc. We’re all a bit teary by the time Lili drops the bombshell –that she’s engaged to Liu Xiang and emigrating to Australia. Zhang Liang, ever the gentlemen, congratulates them 恭喜你们 and realizes its really over.
All in all it’s a very civilized conversation, Lili is clearly life’s winner and Zhang Liang is clearly life’s loser. I guess it doesn’t pay to be the nice guy, you have to show initiative like Liu Xiang.
Here I thought I might add some character analysis built on from last semester’s project:
Zhang Liang: Zhang Liang never seems to put up with a lot with and rarely loses his temper. He can be quite diplomatic, (calling his girlfriend's best friend thin, fairly tactfully trying to fend of li fei), he also has a penchant for excrutiatingly soppy lines (my happiest time of the day is when we are together, you are my best vitamin, etc., etc.). He is very accomodating, perhaps gullible. 他工作得很辛苦。I think we could almost call him a bit of a pushover. He seems to be led on by everyone including Lili and his best 'bro'.
Installment 2 reinforces these perceptions, although he now seems to have turned into the hopeless loser who can’t give up. Basicly he seems to be further used and abused by –
Lili: a badly behaved precious girlfriend. agitating her friends with excessive public displays of affection, causing scenes in shopping centres, cavorting with 30 year old billionaire exs.
We might also now add, suspicious jealous and hot tempered, and very fortunate to have billionaire Liu Xiang to fall back on.
We also see the return of Lili's best friend: Chen 'It's not like they're married' Jing.
In installment two we also have the entrance of the dutiful Zhang Baba and the “generation gap”. I guess we might say that every cliché and stereotype is at least based on something from real life.
And I forgot to mention that smoothtalking Liu "pistaccio of my eyes" Xiang, one can assume no likeness to the famous hurdler bar the fortune. Confident, knows when to make a move, and why shouldn't he be.
and the hot headed Zhenhua. Need more be said?
(It's not like the characters are one dimensional or anything is it? Well it is a Chinese educational podcast after all.)
And anyway, this lesson was just a point in contrast to the final one, which I think we are performing (right?) “It’s over (again)”. The alternative, nasty ending to the Zhang Liang and Lili’s fairytale romance.
nmar
October 09, 2008, 11:19 AMok that was a bit lengthy! so now ill brush over the dialogue we are concentrating on...the dads advice to the broken-hearted son...and from the title we can tell that there will be some interesting phrases - if not a little awkward in this one - so it should be interesting to perform and study!
so the steeing is presumably in ZL room, or just lazing in front of the tv. I think the latter would be a better option for the performance, cos then we could position him holding a beer with sorta depressed body language and maybe even semi-drunk to make it a bit more interesting!The dad(D) then enters to try and see whats wrong with him, as he must obviously look a little down. again with the abrupt sayings, i like how 'im not in the mood' is trans;ated to 没心情 as if to say having a bad mood is to have none at all in chinese!D then tries to support ZL and encourage him to get over LL. Im not sure if this is the right approach for throughout the dialogue it seems D is suggesting that there is no one girl for anyone - even himself, which adds an interesting character to him!- so ZL should just accept his foolishness and move on.
Well ZL is clearly not convinced, nor would I be, for although his suggestions at first seem supportive, D is not really empathizing with his situation and just being a bit arrogant – especially by emphasizing that he first went with the 校花- campus beauty – which could also be interpreted as making him a bit shallow. It seems ZL immediately recognises this and realizes that the good conversation he thought he was having which would strengthen their relationship, is turning out to be the opposite. So I would say from that perspective that ZL is right in saying that D doesn’t understand his generation, especially as he says twice I think during the dialogue that ‘there is not one Mrs. right for you’.
However I think it is also plausible from another perspective that the D is giving good advice – for the moment to just help him get over her, and ZL just isn’t understanding him, yet D’s attitude doesn’t seem to suggest that. What do u think??
So basically in this dialogue D tries to help ZL and give him advice, but ZL doesn’t find it very helpful and it perhaps only increases his agony – which is described interestingly by D as 受得死去活来 = to hover beneath life and death, so it is a very dramatic expression!We will discuss it much more in person when we go through the dialogues next week to really get a feel for whats going on for our performance...
So the remaining dialogues are: seeking comfort, uncomfortable encounter in a bar, its over, and its over (again).
The next dialogue that features ZL is uncomfortable encounter in a bar…so perhaps he runs into the other girl that likes him but I guess we will see…
明天见！
jwin
October 11, 2008, 07:33 AMcheers, i've still got the last one to go. That's one we're performing right? And then I guess there's the actual performance too.
Have a good one yourself. see you next week.
jwin
October 11, 2008, 09:54 AMSo here’s the nasty and equally melodramatic alternative finale to this sorry tale. “It’s over (again)”.
To place us in context, this episode begins with a somewhat insistent doorbell. Zhang Liang is at Lili’s doorstep to apologise, quite formally 实在抱歉, for the uncomfortable encounter in the bar. Lili tells him: 算了. Forget it, she didn’t take it to heart. She is a little bit impatient with him though, 有什么事你快说吧.
Will that Zhang Liang ever learn? 他说：我哦觉得我们分手都是误会. Wu4hui4, a misunderstanding. 我们喝好吧。Lets make up.
And Lili pulls out the timeless classic: 我们还是做朋友好。Lets (just) be friends.
And then it starts to get a little nasty, with both of them beginning to cast dramatic aspersions. Zhang Liang, didn’t realize that Lili and Liu Xiang were in a relationship, and that he had no chance. 是刘翔，对吗？He draws Liu Xiang’s motives into question: 他不可能真心爱你的.
来到这儿我有一个问题：合适和适合有什么不同？
Moving on, it’s all fairly self explanatory. I might just quote some of the choicest lines:
Lili: 你有什么权力(quan2li4 – right)这么说？你以为所有男人都和你一样吗？
Zhang Liang: 是你故意(gu4yi4 – deliberately)冤枉(yuan1wang – wrong)我！因为这样你就有借口跟我分手，去找有钱人。
Lili: 刘翔就是比你有本事(ben3shi – ability)、有钱。你除了会妒忌(du4ji4 – jealous)，还会什么？
Zhang Liang: 我对你全心全意，你却一直在玩弄(wan2nong4 – toy)我的感情。我今天总算看清你了。我们彻底(che4di3 – completely)分手！
Lili: 我们已经分手了！
Dramatic breakup vocab with plenty of scope for drama, slamming doors and all. Zhang Liang – forever clueless, Lili – forever bitchy, although perhaps here she has some excues. So I guess the question remains, who is playing who ;)
jwin
October 11, 2008, 10:09 AMYou know i think this play was more exciting when there was a bit of intrigue in it, i.e. last semester and before they broke up. It seems that the rest of it just seems to be Zhang Liang bashing his head against the wall as Lili hooks up with the billionaire Liu Xiang.
You had some good ideas for staging the father - son one. I guess that last one definately takes place in a doorway - Maybe flowers would express Zhang Liang's corniness. I guess there's a bit more staging stuff to discuss, we can talk about it next week.
Anyhow, now back to 谈谈男女平等.
nmar
October 12, 2008, 01:46 AMAAhhh!I just typed out a whole thing, pushed send and my net cut out so it all deleted!!bloody computers!!
Well done again on that last dialogue…chinesepod certainly does know how to churn out some creamy cheese!haha. I guess we can work out who will play who next week, but I spose it would make sense to have the same person playing ZL in both. You got any preferences atm?
I agree that the story started to lag a bit towards the end of this part, although the dialogue certainly didn’t…yet I think I was good in a way to show the ‘full circle’ of the relationship. Not sure if I’m a fan of the portrayal of ZL though as he seems to be the weakest and they don’t really end his story on a positive not. I guess the Chinese aren’t as big fans of the underdog story as us aussies are!haha
U free next Tuesday either before or after chinese to work out the detailed logistics and discuss staging etc??im free from 11.
Righto…I guess I should keep going on that composition as well and all the listening stuff!!
nmar
October 11, 2008, 07:00 AMhey joel - they were awesome notes!well done and good analysis of heaps of the phrases. havent gone thru that song properly yet but i can tell from a few lines that it seems extremely cheesy and mushy...i can only imagine that the accompanying music is just as corny! ill try and make a few more notes on some of the dialogues tomorrow...enjoy ur w/e!
nmar
October 09, 2008, 10:51 AMrighto...the story continues. Tonight I will briefly go through the 3rd and 4th dialogues so we get the story going in our heads, and then tomorrow hopefully we can finish them off before going into detail on our specific ones.
So first with the breakup...straight away from the title we can tell that the story is going to get a lot more dramatic from here on, as the couple attempt to either fix things up, or it all just goes pear-shaped!
so the setting is ZL finally gets onto LL after trying her phone several times, to try to make amends and sort out the issues which seem to be disrupting their relationship. LL initial response on the phone was quite humorous with "有什么事吗？" which would definitiley not be the reply Zl was hoping for!so she is obviously still very mad at him for working late with his colleague the other night
ZL then tries to persuade her that there was nothing going on that night and it is all a big understanding. However despite his attempts LL just does not seem interested in believing him at all and continues to bitch and pesture him.ZL then gets perhaps madder and perhaps makes the wrong decision in saying that "反正你们女人就是很多疑" which was similar to the generalisation LL made in the previous dialogue and we also see useage of 反正 here!I am not convinced that he was actually cheating anyway, so i think LL misreads this by treating it as a guilty conscience, whereas as he was really just pissed off withher constant badgering!
she then generalises again about 'twotiming men' , which sets ZL off as he brings the millionaire Liu Xiang back into the picture and starts to question why she even went for him(ZL) in the first place.Ithought 。。。去过好日子was an interesting way to say 'happily ever after' as it is like 'go and live a good life', so i suppose it lacks the poetic value of the english version!yet it is perhaps more logical!
LL then gets madder and affirms that LX is probably better than ZL, but as this was said in the heat of the moment, it is difficult to see that she actually means it!
so ZL ends it and says 分手把very appropriately (reminds me of the chinese play we saw with lots of short commands!!haha). There is then a strong sense of reluctance in LL agreeance with that as she says 'if that is what you want-it was your suggestion' as to perhaps remove guilt from her part later on.
this dialogue was quite interesting i thought and there were many interesing phrases, especially with something like 分就分 which show how simplified some things are in the chinese language.its hard to say at this stage whether they will actually end up together again or not...