Jimin, Helen and Andrew Discussion

arei

October 08, 2008, 12:58 PM posted in General Discussion

Hello Helen and Jimin,

I will be discussing the first five (5) dialogues and will dabble in the last three (3) tomorrow. Jimin you have comprehensively outlined the dialogues and have raised some interesting insights into the relationship (or lack thereof) between Zhang Liang and Lili [Surname]. In regards to our actual play, hopefully you guys received my email about availability and practice? Anyway lets get on with it…

The Other Woman

This dialogue provides a wonderful insight into the vastly different relationship between boyfriend and girlfriend in Chinese culture. An interesting character use was “所” in the answering machines recording. As stated by the podcasters, this adds a level of formality to the sentence. We see Zhang Liang, as you pointed out Jimin, defending himself saying he is with a whole group of 一大帮同事 which is of course one big ‘group’ of workmates. Before this dialogue I would have guessed this to mean “one big helpful group of workmates” but we are introduced to a new ‘grouping word’ (?) or it is possibly a measure word? Another interesting opener spoken by Lili is “怪不得” which one may get all confused about, ‘don’t blame get’, ‘blame + potential complement X2’… not really sure … but Jenny from ChinesePod points out it literally means “不奇怪” or something we learnt in class “难怪”, hopefully this structure will be explained because I am not sure if I came across a similar pattern I would understand it. Zhang Liang pushes the point stressing the need to 别误会 which literally translates to ‘Don’t mistake possible’ or ‘don’t be mistaken’ or ‘misunderstand’. A use of 了 which I don’t think I and maybe other students are very confident with is the ‘change of status’ use; which we see used in “你别解释了”, ‘le’ means ‘change your status from 解释’ing to not explaining. A question I have is the last sentence and last clause spoken by Lili, “你们男人都一个样”, what purpose does the ‘个’ serve, it seems to be to be optional, perhaps its for emphasis?

Jimin I think you were right that Lili just did not listen, which is quite unreasonable, I guess we can safely say that你们女人都一个样！

Confiding in a Conniving Friend

Jimin you said that Lili wants go find a new man to love her more whilst this is true I don’t think it does her sentence justice. Lili says she want 全心全意爱她的人, totally reasonable and pretty much what you said. But I think there is more meaning that someone who loves her. The colour with which she speaks, to me sounds like a man [like LiuXiang, but let’s not get ahead of ourselves] who cannot part from her hip.

Moving on. I didn’t mention in last dialogue, but this dialogue gives use the second use of the 着. Last dialogue we saw the use as ‘for the purpose of’ [忙着跟女同事。。] but this dialogue we see the use to describe a physical action “背着我” which describes the physical (even though it is metaphorical) nature of Zhang Liang’s actions. I find it interesting that Lili is getting such good advice from this old friend of Zhang Liang’s, they really didn’t hit it off last series at the restaurant, I must say her advice is fair if not conservative, considering she once seemed to see some 分手 action. Notably, a character very similar to 着，看, is used in a new way. It describes a thought, I believe you ccan replace this character with a 以为 which would perhaps provide a little bit too much information, as it might suggest that this supposed ‘conniving friend’ already believes Lili. Another use of the 个 which I don’t understand in 笑个不停, unnecessary I believe, unless it adds colour, I want colour I suppose.

BEAT EMOTION CURSE PLAYFULNESS, personally on first glance I would have translated it to, hit emotion scold sticky rice dumplings, but that’s because I didn’t know the last character. I think this is a fantastic way to describe flirting and courting. Another Chengyu 成语 employed by those craft ChinesePodders is 做贼心虚 doing ‘nervous’ like a thief. So I suppose Lili is complaining about Zhang Liang saying he had the look of guilt on his face that was likened to a thief that has been caught.

Oh and just quickly, 不管。。。都/也. Just as we learnt in class this week, this expression is replaceable with the structure 无论。。。都/也.

[more to come 等一下]

arei

October 08, 2008, 02:28 PM

The Breakup

As you have correctly stated Jimin, in The Breakup, we are introduced, I think most interestingly, to Liu Xiang.

In this dialogue, after countless phone calls Zhang Liang finally gets a hold of Lili and she responds with a total lack of interest as we can see the burning fire of an angry woman raging within her. As the saying goes ‘hell hath no fury like a woman scorned’ I think it is pretty fair to drop that in considering the situation. Zhang Liang continues to placate and reason with her, however, as some may know dealing with anger is sometimes best dealt with silence. Unfortunately for Zhang Liang he decides to fight back and for the first time whips back at Lili mentioning Liu Xiang [a past love] and now then all communication crumbles ending in two single people. The funniest bit in the whole dialogue to me was when Lili has to have the last word, which I thought was 无数 = ‘not to count’ or in English, countless. I think this 无 character comes up quite often and we should note that it means not or lack of [I think].

I nice use of the hypothetical, is 我没猜错的话。。, suggesting there is still some doubt in Lili as she is not being definite about her assumption. Again we have the 着 use, with 忙着给你的新女朋友打电话, 发短信吧, or, busy calling your new girlfriend. Notably, the second clause in the previous quote does not necessitate a conjunction, I find it quite difficult to adapt to the lack of ‘and’ ‘or’ etc… as in the previous example a comma has taken place where typically in English an ‘and’ would be.

偏偏　。。 I cannot translate it into something, except maybe an emotion. Of being picky, because that’s also what it sounds like. 信不信由你，I think is a nice new phrase I might use myself, 由 translating to ‘depends on’, or the whole sentence: believe don’t believe depends on you, in English we use a more round-a-bout way of expressing this, ‘whether or not you believe me is up to you’ or maybe shorter ‘believe it or not’.

Like from the Chengyu used in the previous dialogue 心虚 describes a guilty conscience. Moving on… we come across a nice, very Chinese expression. 脚踏两条船，which is literally ‘stepping on two boats’ which naturally is quite difficult, so what does this mean? I think the best English translation is probably trapped between a rock and a hard place , but this expression has multiple uses that extend outside the realms of relationships, like the Chinese counterpart is restricted to.

Again we see a change of status 了 not in ‘我真是昏了头’ but in, ‘我们都该清醒了’, the first use of 了 is for past tense whilst the second is for a change form unclear to clear. As I mentioned at the beginning, I love how Lili end the dialogue with ‘这可是妮说的’ I think this is really funny because it shows her immaturity. Instead of talking things out and resolving the issue, she rather push the point and kick up a stink, then faced with the question of breaking up she of course says yes, and then makes an attempt to remove all blame from herself. One question, why is 可 used in 这可是妮说的。With the preceding character does it mean “just that” “but”?

A Dad’s Advice to a Broken Hearted Son

In this dialogue ZL father tries to cheer up ZL by reflecting on his own past and showing him similarities and why now is not the time to bring oneself down. ZL if of course reluctant and refuses to believe his father could relate.

过去 is an interesting term for the past, but more interesting is the ‘end of the world’ translation, 没什么大不了的, which to me seems like ‘the great unbearable’ … I suppose I can see the similarities. 何必为他伤心 is another sentence which took me a while to translate… ‘why necessary for her grieve’ … recently we have been coming across quite a lot of these sth+心 words. 比如说，放心，担心，操心，伤心，小心 (a bit different).

I could not understand why 是 is used in “正在你是不明白的”. No idea….

Another use of 是 I am curious about is in the following sentence 你那个年级也是爱的死去活来。Of course we come across another Chengyu, go and die , live and come back. I suppose it means, experiences the whole range of emotions, form death to life. Worthy of mention is the, ‘every person takes their own path’ expression, 各走各的路。I think the English translation of this sentence is quite funny, 还有过其他的女朋友 the use of 过, which I translate as “experience(d)” makes the sentence, also had experienced other girlfriends, which takes a slightly promiscuous tone, but, nevertheless, its Chinese. I am not sure if another word can be sued instead of 过。

Also, in line with out recent textbook chapter, the 一对 used in this text has very similar meanings to the 对 used for a team (of basketballers).

不提也罢　。。I understand the meaning, mainly from the tone in which it was spoken, but what does the 也罢 mean? Together to they mean something or are they separate, or is the 罢 used as a tone softener? Confused {and sleepy now}.

Question, can I put a 的人 in this sentence…
怎么可能只有一个合适你（的人）呢？

Of course I must mention (and I am sure everyone else did) 别老钻牛角尖。

Very weird, but in English we can say for the horn part at least to get to the point or be (so) precise. But the whole ‘drilling’, not quite sure if that can be incorporated.

Overall I think ZL’s dad gave good advice, although I can imagine how ZL feels and his reaction is somewhat understandable.

arei

October 09, 2008, 02:06 PM

Seeking Comfort

"maybe they will be happily ever after..." .... Jimin, I suppose I don't mind LX at this point in time, but LL is getting on my nerves, I think she was the one who was really 脚踏两条船...

Summary: LL and LX meet one another and LX expresses his feelings for LL that have not changed since they broke up last time. LL is in an obviously bad mood and LX asks what happened, whereby LL tells about her breakup with ZL. Then LX takes advantage of her sad state to provide an apparently far better off option... with LX himself!

Points of Interest:

The opening line by LL is a hypothetical statement but it really is a comment on the actual situation. 要见你一面真难阿！ Translates to, "if i want to see you it is really difficult!" (i think). When really it just is stressing the degree of difficulty in seeing her.

你才是大忙人呢 .. i don't understand the meaning of 才 here. Perhaps it is for emphasis, but I don't think I have come across this usage in emphasis before. Shortly following this statement is the beloved grammar patter 不是。。。就是。。。, stating that if LX is not on tv LX is in the paper. I liek hwo in the Chinese language they also use "Where would you find...." to stress a point through the use of 哪. For example, 哪有什么道理？！

Again I am unclear why the 可 is used, 你跟别人可不一样 or 这可不像你, can it be expanded to mean something else? 可是？

I like the directional complement use of 出 in 挤出, to literally "squeeze out" time of LX's day. We are also introduced to 之后 being equivalent to 以后. Also with 永远 and 总是 or 老 But are they replaceable in most/all circumstances?

I did a dictionary search of 到底 and it came up as "finally/in the end", 你到底怎么了? probably then means, what are you really feeling, or at the end, or what at the core of your heart, etc etc...

通, we have learn this as 打通 or 通过, again we see a similar use here with passing an emotion attached with a 'change of status' 了 I believe, 我现在也想通了.

弥补 - to fill/full of repair, or to reconcile, perfect.

失去 - is this use of 'lost' only use in the abstract cases or can i say, 我昨天把我的钱包失去了..[hope that makes sense in any way].

arei

October 09, 2008, 02:24 PM

Uncomfortable Encounter in a Bar

"happy with another new boy friend" hey Jimin, I agree with you, but I am not sure it is so clear in this dialogue. I was really surprised by LX reaction to ZL ZH's comment. I understand ZH's protection of his friend ZL but LX should be more understanding, although again he is in front of his new girlfriend!

Summary: ZH invited ZL to a new bar where famous people 'love' to come. Much to ZL dismay, they run into LL and LX, LL introduces LX to ZL but ZH fires back at LX's offer to 请客 and then LX also fires back. Then ZH tells ZL to stick up for himself/let out some of his pent up anger, however, ZL doesn't want to hear any of it and just recedes into sadness.

It's Over

Hey Jimin/Helen I think the only sad bit in this dialogue is the news that LL is so quick to run off with another richer man. I really feel sorry for ZL and LL makes me sick a bit.

Summary: ZL and LL are having mocha, quite symbolically in the same setting as when they first met. Zl is being quite philosophical and talking about how he has learnt a lot from this relationship and that he feels stupid for his actions. LL also says she feels stupid. Then they ask what each has been doing, LL is getting used to her new found luxury lifestyle with rich man LX. ZL is still routinely working overtime. ZL then feels depressed but LL tries to cheer him up. THEN LL that GOLD DIGGER brings up the news of her 订婚 (booked marriage/engagement) and that she is.. not going as an exchange student .. but immigrating with LX to Australia (woohoo!). Then ZL feels this is his last goodbye, but LL reassures him that she will come back to see her family and they will continue to be friends.

It's Over (Again)

"I guess Zhang Liang is very poor minded person... he is being bit nasty"
Jimin, I have to totally disagree with you. LL is being really immature. Maybe because you're a woman you only see from a woman's perspective and I can only see form ZL's perspective...

ZL approaches LL at (supposedly) her doorstep and tries to reconcile their relationship stating that it was just a big mistake. But LL decides to stick with the friend option. Then ZL makes quite a bold statement saying LX is not right for her, but then she whips back at him asking what authority he has to make such comments and that he should realise not all men are 'like him' (whatever that means pfft!). Then ZL asks her to elaborate and then she refers to the FF situation which kicks off ZL temper as he points out that LL was only trying to find a good excuse to dump him. And then LL just proves his point, in my opinion, where she says that LX compared to him (ZL) is more capable at providing and has more money (dig dig dig digging for gold). ZL is furious and finally realises she is toying with him and really 死心 this time. Of course in true LL style she must have the last word.