Direction for Video

For me, the key is that we keep producing the very best audio lessons that we can. That's what we are and that, for the most part, is what we should continue to do.

Video is an entirely different medium and I have yet to see any truly excellent language learning video lessons, anywhere. It has taken us 3 years to get where we are with audio - and there's a ton still to learn - so I relize the difficulty of creating truly great video. (The pedagogical issues could be overcome, but the production ones are very significant.)

So, I say we keep focused on our core activity but comntinue to experiment with video. However, we really have to ensure that the video that we do publish reaches certain standards and gets the time and resources that is required and meets a high level of quyality. 

However much potential video may have, I honestly don't use it (cpod, tv, or others) much for my studies.  Unlike a podcast, I can't watch video when I'm driving or just out and about.  Videos just don't fit into how I use ChinesePod.

I only hope that CPod will screen future videos with some user group before releasing to whole audience. 

I actually don't mind the audio bumpers at the end of the podcasts.  The end of the lesson is clear, so it doesn't take much effort to skip over the bumper if desired.  Now, the "Do you understand the words coming out of my mouth?" bumper at the beginning of the lessons needed to go, and it did a long time ago.

I just deleted a comment that was nasty and personal. Why does video raise the tepmperature like this?

(Oops, the system also deleted my own previous comment!)

I'll try again. I think we should reaffirm that we do audio lessons around here. I think we can experiment with video but only release when it has reached a certain standard of quality.

As yet, I have not seen a systematic approach to language learning through video out there that I think is really good. There are lots of excellent short videos - such as the ones produced here by SpanishPod and some of the ones we've done at CPod were good, too - but I'm talking about an entire course in video-based language learning. I think no-one has figured out a systematic approach to that. 

I've made several comments about the old "commentary" format (and even included examples of what I am talking about) whenever the discussion of video comes up but I never seem to get a solid answer as to why these types of videos were scrapped and why it's not an acceptable format in the current environment. I'm not saying that it should be the only idea that is looked at, nor that the videos should all be like that.. I'm just wondering why..

I got a lot out of those videos, particularly the one I like to use as an example which is the "Hair Salon" one, and feel strongly enough about it to keep raising the issue.. so I apologise if I sound like a broken record in regards to that but I am all for the idea of video if it can be done right and since that format worked "for me", it is obvious that I am going to keep mentioning it until I get a solid acknowledgment either way as to its validity.

I'm never sure about the tooting of one's own horn, but I thought you might like to see the way that some of my students have been using video.

To be brief, in class they write on a certain topic, then they study video clips of native speakers talking about that same topic, then the students create a video skit on that topic.  The video is then posted on our course blog, together with transcripts, translation, analysis, comments, etc.  (Note that the Fall 08 students were extremely creative.)

http://kelmbrazil.wordpress.com/

I believe the challenge for ChinesePod, unlike my students who use video to produce and practice language, you are coming at it from the opposite direction.

Any chance of getting more stories in audio format? I liked them a lot.

Considering how many comments are generated on the video lessons themselves, it's interesting that there are relatively fewer comments here about them. 

My take was that video quality lesson seemed to be mixed, and extremely context dependent.  I felt you already had to have some familiarity with the subjects in the video, otherwise you never really were sure what objects were being referred to in the video. So I was in the "scrap it completely" camp.  But I would also note that there were people that seemed to rave about video, but then they didn't really quantify what they got out of it beyond "I learn better visually".  I would have said, it's ok to give them video lessons regularly, but then I realise that creating video lessons for them means less cpod resources available to create other content, or to improve the site in other ways.  In that regard, I say scrap video until a lesson suggestion list is created, and other items that have been suggested have been included in the site. Thanks John.

This thread is not about whether or not we want to have video.. video is something that's obviously going to be done.. no point turning this into another "video and the community". I believe this thread is about creating direction for the video.. a vision for the video content..

Before you post here with "I don't want video" responses because the previous video submissions were "sub-par", please re-read John's post. Let's forget about the failures in so much as they have been acknowledged as failures and now concentrate on learning from those mistakes.

I'd really like to see some responses with creative ideas and brain-storming conversations in an attempt to come to some mutually beneficial direction that the video should take.

I agree with the "RJ Berki's view". If Cpod don't have the resources today for quality video lessons, it should mainly focus on the audio lessons that made its reputation.

More advices :

- Get rid of Aric's closedown self-promotions. It's only funny the first time but not after more than 2000 podcasts.

- Feel free to surprise us sometimes with a new format or new voices.

- A short audio-blog like "Princess Remy" (may it rest in peace) would be more than welcome. If you give it for free (like the basic lessons) and (above all) bring some interesting/polemical subjects in it, lots of new "native chinese" poddies will spark down here to debate.

How is it that JP and SpanishPod have created such fun, engaging videos in the same building?  "Cooking with Tabasco" allows students to hear Spanish spoken at a normal speed in a context that gives plenty of hints and crutches to keep even a beginning listener following the flow of the speech and picking up words.  "La Clave" is a truly beautiful series of videos with professional animation, smooth transitions and _excellent_ content.  JP is a natural teacher who knows how to organize and synthesize information effectively, and both shows even throw in a little humor every 20 seconds or so.

Instead, CP is stuck with John Pasden wandering around the streets of Shanghai, mumbling with two people who look like they have brain damage.  Why such a difference in quality from the same company?

agreed.. I would not miss Aric's part at all.

Have you seen the use of video here?:

http://www.ctcfl.ox.ac.uk/Chinese/lessons.htm

I think it is effective

i agree about scrapping Aric's old bumpers...the "cave mandarin into rave mandarin" cracked me up the first 10 times...now its kind of annoying! using the same ones over and over kind of gets old...

Get creative and make some new bumpers for your podcasts. I think that kind of stuff helps to keep things light and funny.

also, i really liked the videos tour things of the markets etc...why arent you still doing those??

mikeinewshot, you liked them? I didn't think they added anything in particular. Just filming people acting out a dialogue doesn't make any difference to me (though sometimes if there are more than two people in a dialogue, I don't know which person is speaking).  I quite liked some of the grammar exercises though.

Urbandweller, I think John mentioned somewhere else that it was really difficult to get useful footage when making the vocab tours, which is a shame because I also liked them.

light 487,

I apologize if the comment you posted wasn't aimed at my comment. But if it was:

1) Since John posted this discussion in the first place, isn't it really John's call if my post about "video is not effective" is unwarranted? Aren't you just another paying subscriber like me? You're not an cpod employee are you? I'm willing to go by cpod staff about appropriateness of comments, and if you're staff, then ok.

2) Even if my comment is unwarranted, it will be ignored if its off topic and no one really cares what I have to say.  But I was only expressing my opinion because I took John at his word about "welcoming feedback"

3) I know from previous feedback I and others have given, that once cpod staff have made a decision, it's unlikely that i'm going to say something that's hasn't already been said, and re-opening this thread to "eliminating video" is not my intent, but more likely not likely to be acted on by cpod management. Can't you let it go at that? My comment was already ignored by everybody else, including cpod staff.  But if cpod staff was irked, they could have taken a number of actions, including deleting my post, and emailing me personally as to why. No comment from you would have been necessary.

Light487,

The video commentary lessons were fine, but they're not as effective at teaching vocabulary as the Vocab Tours. Their main function is cultural commentary. We do tons of cultural commentary throughout all our podcasts, and even though video adds a valuable dimension, that particular style doesn't fill a particularly urgent need.

Some people really like them, but I'd say the overall response was "lukewarm."  At the time they were exciting because they were ChinesePod's first foray into video content.

Oh, and we hear you about the little audio bumpers at the end of the pocasts.  We work really hard to put out excellent podcasts every day, so we'd hate to be ending that experience with a moment of annoyance on your part.  We will remove/change them.

@everyone

Thanks so much for all of your input - discussion is healthy and its the only way to move forward.

I've taken care of the end of lesson sound-bytes as per your suggestions, however due to the lead time on podcast production this change should be in effect as of mid to late February.

Matt

(second chance ?)

I agree with the "RJ Berki's view". If Cpod doesn't have the resources today for quality video lessons, it should mainly focus on the audio lessons that made its reputation.

More advices :

- Get rid of Aric's closedown self-promotions. It's only funny the first time but not after more than 2000 podcasts.

- Feel free to surprise us sometimes with a new format or new voices.

- A short audio-blog like "Princess Remy" would be more than welcome. If you give it for free (like the basic lessons) and (above all) bring some interesting/polemical subjects in it, lots of new "native chinese" poddies will spark down here to debate.