Worrying developments on Praxis language

matthiask
May 19, 2009, 11:28 AM posted in General Discussion

spanishpod down from 5 lessons per week to 3
italianpod down from 3 lessons per week to 1
frenchpod down from 3 lessons per week to 1

I sincerely hope, chinesepod is doing better.
I'm tempted to switch from praxis to premium.

My French is not worth it anyway.

What do you think? Any statements of the Team concerning the health status of chinesepod?

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simonpettersson
May 19, 2009, 02:31 PM

Well, that stinks. I just upgraded to a Praxis Pass to be able to maintain my French. And I was hoping I'd get access to more languages in the future, so that Praxis could be a sort of one-stop shop for all my language learning and maintaining needs.

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user76423
May 20, 2009, 06:21 AM

I am sure that in the future service reductions will happen at ChinesePod too - so the best for you is to read carefully the terms & conditions of ChinesePod & Praxis:

All products and services, their contents, availability, and pricing are subject to change at any time with or without notice.

It says nothing about compensation if they reduce or cut their service. So the best customers can do for their own money is to order only a Monthly Subscription!

You may cancel the Monthly Subscription at anytime.

So you know for what you are spending your money month by month.

And if you are not happy with all this:

Any claim relating to, and the use of, this website and the materials contained on the website is governed by the laws of the State of Delaware.

Maybe you have a chance to get some money back there ;-) ;-)

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urbandweller
May 19, 2009, 03:42 PM

I wouldn't worry about Cpod too much...the others may take a hit and possibly go down...but my gut feeling is that this is the "bread and butter" of praxis! meaning the main $$$ maker...they have too many addicted and loyal followers that will fork out the cash...even in tough times and when unemployed like me!! ha ha!

加油cpod!

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tingyun
May 19, 2009, 03:45 PM

I think connecting such cutbacks to the global financial crisis may be a bit of a leap.;)

A more likely explanation is that FrenchPod and ItalianPod were never that great ideas for expansion.  Firstoff, these languages had their best days in the past.  Primarilly, English speakers now learn them to fill a language requirement in high school or college - which doesn't provide the strongest incentive to get really good, or to learn the kind of functional language that helps outside the classroom.  Of course there are exceptions...but compared to Mandarin?

Second, a quick google search confirms that there are many competing French and Italian Podcasts.  More competition means less customers.  Compare that to Mandarin, where Praxis is like Microsoft, if Ninjas killed Apple.

Now, SpanishPod has more of a reason to exist - but a quick google search confirms the existence of competition, and Praxis lacks its ChinesePod long-standing dominance in this market.  So, makes sense its doing better than the others, but still having some amount of struggle.

Honestly, I see no reason why this should cause any worry at all for ChinesePod.  If anything, it might cause a consilidation of focus on Praxis real core business - ChinesePod.  In law school, in situations like this with expansion into areas that weren't doing so well, we would call ChinesePod the "crown jewels" of the company.  Very doubtful there is any danger to it.

Of course, these judgments aren't informed by anything other than the above poster's announcment of cutbacks and a few google searches, so - could be I'm completely wrong about everything.;) 

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antony73
May 19, 2009, 03:56 PM

timsls

"Praxis is like Microsoft, if Ninjas killed Apple" very funny :D

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RJ
May 19, 2009, 04:06 PM

Tim,

I have to agree. My guess is that Cpod is not only healthy but has been paying the bills for all of them.

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matthiask
May 19, 2009, 05:09 PM

well, I took this moment to show my support with a 2 year extension but into ChinesePod premium subscription. Let's hope it stays the cashcow :)

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user76423
May 19, 2009, 05:21 PM

matthiask: 真勇敢!

What if ChinesePod reduces podcast frequency & reduces manpower, just to improve earnings??

If you subscribe, what are you buying? The status quo? Do you have to swallow reduced podcast frequency without compensation?

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mikeinewshot
May 19, 2009, 07:40 PM

I agree with the above comments from others.  Certainly when I visited Frenchpod they seemed to have very few learners if the comments were anything to go by.  I was about the only one commenting on the advanced lessons.  (Actually I sent my CV in to apply for the host of Frenchpod, but they said they lost the application, so my judgement may be coloured with some sour grapes!)

Incidentally, I have always wondered about the business model and strategy of producing new podcasts for ever.  What is the point? For instance, on Chinesepod, if most of us mastered the lessons already there, we would be pretty fluent.  The cost and effort of producing new lessons could be channelled into improving the exercises, search function etc etc....

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sebire
May 19, 2009, 08:17 PM

I think that French and stuff is harder to pick up than Chinese using this format, to be honest. I think it's the grammar. I spent lots of time at school learning verb endings and irregular verbs, which I suppose don't come through so easily in podcast format.

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user150509
May 19, 2009, 03:11 PM

The global crisis has arrived at Praxis.

After lurking into FrenchPod (quite silent there) I always asked myself how they make money there. So this is not a surprise for me.

As an aspiring CPod customer, I would be really interested how CPod podcasts would be affected by such cost reductions. What about the current customers, if Praxis reduces the number of lessons, will they get money back?

I just found the answer:

"I'm afraid the subscription extensions offered last time are not a part of these changes. Thanks for your patience and understanding."

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sebire
May 19, 2009, 08:56 PM

I somewhat agree based on my experience of chinese school as a kid. Going to learn French at secondary school was a revelation - people actually understood the language and had teacher training, whereas the Chinese school teachers were well-meaning volunteers. Saying that, at university I had a really good Chinese teacher who had clearly been trained.

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antony73
May 19, 2009, 09:03 PM

mikeinnewshot

All my brothers, sisters, friends, myself, all learned french at school here in the UK. The local college always has french courses running. The local book stores without fail have french courses on the shelves.

You're right, Mandarin is different. This year was the first year the college ran a Chinese course... a one-off six week course. 

The UK education system announced last year they plan to introduce Mandarin into the curriculum due to China's ever growing importance in the world, though no sign of it yet.

 

 

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calkins
May 20, 2009, 12:20 AM

I don't think that the 'other Pods' can be compared with ChinesePod. 

Cpod has been around for 4 years, the others are going on what, a year maybe?

Cpod started out small, a few people in an old factory.

Cpod started out with investment money (and probably Ken's, Hank's, etc. own money).  The other pods are more than likely (like RJ said) funded by Cpod.  That can't last forever of course, so then cost-cutting measures must happen.

Cpod has been slowly (I use that loosely!) built up, both in staff and user base.  It takes a while to get the word out, especially with such competitive languages like French and Spanish.


I can understand the frustration of fewer lessons being published, but no one can expect the other pods to be in the same league as Cpod, at least not for a while.  And like others mentioned, maybe they never will, given the dynamics and markets for those languages.

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bababardwan
May 20, 2009, 12:28 AM

I don't profess to know exactly what's going on or the reasons,but I do know what they are saying the rationale is,and both mikeinewshot and sebire's comments would tend to support their rationale which is something along these lines:

They are saying that there are already heaps of podcasts that have been produced but what learners are needing help with are both structure to their learning and help with grammar etc,so they are producing less podcasts in an effort to focus more on new features to support that and more staff time to support the learners.Yeah,the boards on the other languages are a lot quieter [such a shame] but I get the impression it is still only a tiny fraction who bother posting [do people get shy after they see others who get personal attacks? ..dunno,but probably several factors]

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John
May 20, 2009, 02:29 AM

ChinesePod is healthy, growing, and has lots of great changes in the pipeline.  Calkins is right that each language is very different.

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goulnik
May 20, 2009, 05:25 AM

virtual learning notwithstanding, relying on a Shanghai-based outfit to learn Italian, French or Spanish is still a leap of faith. Somewhat lacking context if you ask me, to use a word Ken will relate to...

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simonpettersson
May 20, 2009, 05:53 AM

I learned French by lots and lots of input and that's the way to learn a language (like Ken emphasised in the early Cpod lessons). Memorizing verb endings is the stupid way around. You need to get them automatic, which you do by listening to them in context again and again. Also, people who want to maintain, rather than attain, an advanced level of for example French, cannot do it by indefinitely rehashing old material. We want fresh stuff.

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henning
May 20, 2009, 05:54 AM

I noticed that CPod has seen a lot more attention in the last 5 months. The less blood is sucked from unhealthy xPods the better. 

Although I understand the "economies of scale" rationale behind it (if it works that is), I have never been a particular friend of the xPod-approach. It leads to a uniformity that just is not compatible with the specific nature of learning Chinese. There is no uniform approach suited for all those languages and there is no uniform platform either (How many characters do you need to learn for French?). 

 

Mike: Regarding the number of lessons I absolutely disagree. It is the ever increasing number of lessons that still sets CPod apart. And those new lessons are my daily impetus to continue learning.

Besides, I continuously encounter new words and phrases that definately haven't been introduced here (yet). And I am not talking about "Archeopterix" but fundamental phrases and even common function words.

I agree, though, that the number of possible lesson subjects is limited. My estimate for the upper bound lies somewhere around 2,885,773.

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mikeinewshot
May 19, 2009, 08:36 PM

I am now going to be controversial I think!

Certainly in England the history of teaching French and indeed European languages is longstanding.  There are many trained native language teachers and books which combine grammar and context learning.  Well trained and experienced teachers are common who can guide students through the language.

Whereas in England I have not yet met a single real native Chinese teacher who understands how to teach Chinese.  I have searched and searched and all I have found is Chinese women living in England who are not qualified and indeed have no idea either how to teach languages or how to teach westerners.  For example, my first Chinese 'teacher' spent 6 weeks trying to teach pinyin to a group of people who understood alphabets better than she did.  She was amazed that the English could put a K together with an E and produce a KE sound!!  Yet another 'teacher' who had no idea of the simple rule for tone changes of 不 .  Her poor students must be completely in the dark.

So if you want to learn Chinese in England you have no good source of help - so Chinesepod is great.

But if you want to learn French you have many more excellent options, so you don't need to go to a podcast.