Let's talk SRS
simonpettersson
January 05, 2010, 06:42 AM posted in General DiscussionIt's been brought up here and there, but have we had a specific thread about it? Probably, but I can't remember seeing one, so I'll make one now.
Seriously, why aren't you using Spaced Repetition? I keep seeing all these comments about "I study each lesson this much, but then I forget half of the words" and I can't help thinking: "Why?" It seems to me to be a terrible waste of time to learn words and then forget them. Then you have to learn them again! And then maybe forget them once more. Isn't that annoying? It sounds very annoying to me.
So why aren't you using SRS?
bababardwan
January 06, 2010, 04:57 AMmatthiask,
A HSK pack sounds really useful too.It could be a good way of testing where we're at at the same time.I'll have to check that out.Thanks :)
kimiik
January 05, 2010, 08:06 AMHi Simon,
In my opinion, you only need artificial SRS for low frequency vocabulary. I learn regular vocabulary and structures through natural SRS : many lessons giving many exposures of the same words in different contexts.
sebire
January 05, 2010, 01:09 PMI bet it's less useful for people who are surrounded by the language every day. Of course, it's handy to force you to learn how the write the characters. I think for us lot in the non-Chinese speaking world, it's pretty handy. However, it can get dull - you need a bit of will. It works for me, because I can see a nice upwards graph with all my unique characters. However, I do dread those days where I have been away, and have a stupid number of reviews to do.
Only 350 unique hanzi in my Anki at the moment. I wonder how many cards I need to achieve "fluency", rather than number of unique characters, which is clearly a nonsense measure.
daniel70
January 05, 2010, 02:56 PMAround the net, many people insist that you should use sentences or phrases in your srs deck. I've been using words ... primarily because they are easier to input. I have a second deck which is just characters.
Does anyone here use sentences and phrases?Any opinions on this?
richad
January 05, 2010, 03:17 PMSRS技术，可能对学习语言有帮助，带还是不能代替人做来的努力的学习，每天的增加一点一点，一年后 就可以知道很多了，能学习高级的语言了，everybody，come on！Stick to it，the surprise will come to you，believe me。I had the experience from chinese ABC to advanced 。。。
richad
January 05, 2010, 03:17 PMSRS技术，可能对学习语言有帮助，带还是不能代替人做来的努力的学习，每天的增加一点一点，一年后 就可以知道很多了，能学习高级的语言了，everybody，come on！Stick to it，the surprise will come to you，believe me。I had the experience from chinese ABC to advanced 。。。
bababardwan
January 05, 2010, 08:19 PMkimiik,
Good point.Anki blows words that you keep ascribing easy to out to years I think,but I think it should have another option button as you are going through your flashcards to say don't ever show me this card again.You can manually go through your deck deleting words you've mastered,but I think it'd be nice to be able to do that on the fly.
daniel70
January 05, 2010, 08:43 PMbaba,
You can make changes while in review mode.
ctrl-shift-s will suspend a card
ctrl-del will delete the card from the deck
ctrl-e lets you edit the card -- do another ctrl-e to go back to reviewing
you don't need to be in browse mode to do these operations, you can do them while you're going through your flashcards.
bababardwan
January 05, 2010, 09:21 PMdaniel70,
oh right.Great tips.Thanks mate.I knew I should have spent more time reading through the instructions.Really useful advice;much appreciated :)
chanelle77
January 05, 2010, 08:04 AMTo answer you question:
To be honest: I think it is boring :-). It is not my cup of tea to spend time on things over and over again, I need fresh input, or a fresh context. I noticed that high freq vocab will appear anywhere (podcast / irl), anyway. Also I do not feel the need for it, luckily I don't have much problems remembering sounds / words. Unfortunately this does not go for character writing haha!
Besides that, the words I forget, most of the time are not "too important" (to me) right now. I often joke that 刷卡，is my first Chinese word.
However, I find that if I see the words I just saw / learnt / encountered from Cpod / txtbook IRL, and think "hey", here it is again and then yes!, it stick much better! So, I rather go "out there" then use software or flashcards and learn in a natural context.
So, I agree with SRS, but not maybe in an actively or fixed framework, for me, that is. ;-) But if it works for you or someone else, hey that's great!
daniel70
January 06, 2010, 01:55 AMSebier, I believe the idea is "lexical chunks" or "language in context," but I almost feel I would need to be a native speaker to create good phrase or sentence cards, so I use single word vocab cards. I just wondered if anyone here had tackled this problem.
Having a tutor would be great!
linda_b
January 06, 2010, 02:28 AMI use sentences in Anki. I love Anki. I feel I have progressed much faster using spaced repetition.
I, too, am afraid of creating bad sentences so I copy sentences from the dialogue or expansion sections of Cpod. Anki gives the pinyin and/or translation. Otherwise I copy and paste it in as well. I double check the tone marks because sometimes they are incorrect. Sometimes the English translation is goofy so I change it if need be. I like to make an audio tape of the same sentences so I can practice them on my commute.
It is easier to remember the chunks but I find I have trouble with individual characters so I'm practicing them also. I think it would be good to use a set of similar sentences and vary the vocabulary so I can't 'cheat' since the reviewing the sentences can become somewhat predictable. If I know most of the words I can guess the character I have forgotten.
matthiask
January 06, 2010, 03:21 AMActually, the idea of using sentences is actually striking. I guess I give it a try.
Oh, as far as I know, the SRS for the chinesepod flashcards is on the way (I hope, this is also true for the mobile applications)
bababardwan
January 06, 2010, 03:54 AMlinda_b,
I copy sentences from the dialogue or expansion sections of Cpod
..this does sound like a great idea.There are so many sentences in CPod though that it would be a gargantuan effort for one person,so I wonder if we could start a group where such Anki decks could be shared amongst fellow users.I think before such sharing though ,it would be best to check with CPod whether this was ok or not[I'm not suggesting this is necessary for an individual..I'm only referring to being sensitive about sharing their resources in a potentially public domain..I think it important to protect their intellectual property].Better still,it would be great if CPod could consider incorporating this ability at some point down the track into there upcoming SRS system which I'm sure initially will be just for vocab.Anyhow,food for thought.
linda_b
January 06, 2010, 04:12 AMbababardwan,
Sounds good to me. Do you mind doing the checking with CPod? I would be happy to share my decks. I have two decks of sentences so far. I'm planning to add to the second deck because it is kind of short.
bababardwan
January 06, 2010, 04:18 AMSure linda.I'll respect whatever they decide and get back to you,and thanks for your generous offer.
linda_b
January 06, 2010, 04:35 AMVery good!
matthiask
January 06, 2010, 04:52 AMI would join in, if allowed.
So far I found this HSK Sentences pack and it seems quite funny (though not perfect, found already a pinyin mistake in the first 20 sentences.
sebire
January 05, 2010, 10:30 PMWhat's the reasoning for having sentences and phrases?
If I were to just dump random lines from a dialogue into a card using the English translation as it is given, I'm sure I would translate it back into something completely different. Then I get paranoid about whether what I had done was just another way of saying the same thing, or whether it was just wrong. I need a tutor.
Keth
January 05, 2010, 07:22 AMI think they are using some SRS. Quite often I see words that have appeared in recent earlier lessons. Whether it is a deliberate policy I don’t know but I think it is helpful.