Slow Chinese

go_manly
January 09, 2010, 01:13 AM posted in General Discussion

Has anyone come across this site before. Although still in its infancy, it would seem to be useful for building listening skills.

http://www.slow-chinese.com/

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go_manly
January 09, 2010, 01:43 AM

I also just found CSL Pod.

Here is a sample lesson.

Ignoring the colour scheme, does anyone else think the layout looks remarkably similiar to CPod's?

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paulinurus

I visited both sites. Liked the clear pronunciation of slow-chinese, however the material is beyond me at this time.

CSL Pod has been designed with some likeness to Cpod, including the line by line dialogue. Sounds like it caters to Japanese audience as well as English. The pronunciation feature from slow to natural speed could be useful for learning pronunciation... have bookmarked it. Thanks!

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Tal
January 11, 2010, 01:12 AM

You don't need any speaking skills for Latin or Old Norse either, (I guess.) If studying a language is purely a kind of intellectual exercise with no direct connection to living humans, one might just as well study those. (I much prefer Virgil and Ovid to Li Bai anyway.)

Power to your brainbox Simon. After a year here I was only just starting to get the hang of it. I was pretty busy teaching most of the time though.

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simonpettersson
January 09, 2010, 08:13 AM

I've come across it, but I don't agree with the "slow language" proponents. Slow language destroys the natural prosody, which is what you really need to practice in order to get good listening comprehension. It's better to listen to an audio clip with natural speed several times, than to listen to a longer clip in slowed-down speed.

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user76423

"Slow language destroys the natural prosody (sentence rhythm)?"

Then every Newbie/Ele lesson here destroys the natural prosody. You are really kidding. If you're able to follow fast speech, do it. But I wonder if that's the case.

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blox

I agree with Simon. Newbie and Ele lessons here are used as stepping stones towards the higher levels. At the upper-intermediate level of CSL pod, they still play the dialogs in chinesepod newbie-speed. At that level you should already be able to have conversations with native chinese speakers on quite a broad range of topics, you should be able to watch chinese movies and have an idea of what is going on. This is done in a much higher speed than what they are teaching. So much higher that it's almost like a different language. Don't forget that even Chinesepod's upper intermediate level is still a bit slower than the real thing.

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user76423

slow-chinese.com is IMHO nothing but a stepping stone towards higher levels and speaking speed. It's just interesting material with relatively slow audio. If you want real fast dialogues of real people, watch TV discussions. Can you follow? No.

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go_manly

"Newbie and Ele lessons here are used as stepping stones towards the higher levels."

Well I got very wet trying to hop from Ele to Intermediate.

Lets face it, everything we do in learning Chinese is only a stepping stone to a higher level. And if CSL play UI dialogs at a slow speed, then that is the stepping stone I need to get from Ele to Intermediate on this site. If you are already comfortably at the UI level here, then clearly CSL won't benefit you.

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blox

The jump from ele to intermediate is indeed a big one, but I doubt if listening to slow speed dialogs is going to help you make that jump. Because one of the main reasons why the transition between ele and intermediate levels is tricky is the difference in speed, in my experience. On the other hand: different people have different styles of learning. Maybe it works for you.

@hape: I certainly can't follow everything if I listen to native speakers on TV or radio or outside (I live in China) , but I still believe listening to native speakers on full speed is a great way to practise your listening abilities. If I have to wait with switching to the real deal until I can follow everything, I'll wait forever.

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trevorb

I recently started to listen to intermediate lessons and the jump up is quite large, but despite not yet always understanding the lesson I think my familiarity with the language is increasing more quickly.

Maybe this is to do with the "music" of the language or maybe its because in straining to understand the bits i know I'm actually picking up more.

I now have a Satellite tv card in my computer and I often leave it on PCNE tv in the background just to listen to the stream.

When I first got my 550cc motorcycle opening the throttle wide open from standstill used to scare the living daylights out of me. After I'd been riding it for six months I'd open the throttle and wonder why acceleration was taking sooooo long. After a while you acclimatise and it becomes normal, if you always listen to slow Chinese you'll probably only ever be able to understand slow Chinese.....

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go_manly

There are A NUMBER of reasons Intermediate is more difficult than Ele. The speed is one. The fact that Jenny speaks almost entirely in Mandarin is the main factor for me, especially when she uses a large amount of vocabulary that has not been seen in Ele lessons. Another is the longer sentences, with more difficult sentence structure, which I believe should be the only increase in difficulty for these lessons. And we are meant to cope with all three in one hit. My aim is to eat away at this bit by bit. Allowing myself to understand the more difficult vocabulary without having to worry about speed, I see as an entry point to these lessons. Of course, it not the only way in - I've already attempted one podcast transcript.

Anyway, I would have thought it pretty obvious that slower speed = more understanding.

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BEBC

I agree. The main problem for me when I started Intermed. was the non-lesson dialogue used by the hosts; however, I got used to that after a couple of months with the aid of a magical online translating machine. The more recent lessons also seem to be more user-friendly in terms of the commentary than the lessons from a year or two ago, so I'm working backwards from the most recent. I'm also walking backwards for Christmas, but that's just a whim.

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bababardwan

“magical online translating machine”.。..care to share your tip brick? you had me at magical

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BEBC

Magical Decipherment for British Gentlemen.

As for sharing my tip, steady on there old chap, there may be ladies present.

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go_manly
January 09, 2010, 08:31 AM

simonpettersson

(apologies first: I hate this threading, so I'm only going to use that to reply to old comments)

I don't think I've ever heard the word 'prosody' before, although I pretty much understand from the context.

I am gradually picking up comprehension from the Cpod dialogs, but for the life of me I can barely utter a sentence in real time. People here have talked about mimicry of Chinese speakers, and I want to model myself on someone who talks at a rate I might be capable of.

If that site was the only source of listening material, you would have a point. But I can't see that studying from both Cpod and that site can do any harm.

As an aside, how many people here would rate their speaking ability way below their listening ability, as I do. (To be fair, lets not include Chinese residents)

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user76423
January 09, 2010, 09:00 AM

"Slow language destroys the natural prosody (sentence rhythm)?"

Then every Newbie/Ele lesson here destroys the natural prosody. You are really kidding. If you're able to follow fast speech, do it. But I wonder if that's the case.

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blox
January 09, 2010, 09:26 AM

I agree with Simon. Newbie and Ele lessons here are used as stepping stones towards the higher levels. At the upper-intermediate level of CSL pod, they still play the dialogs in chinesepod newbie-speed. At that level you should already be able to have conversations with native chinese speakers on quite a broad range of topics, you should be able to watch chinese movies and have an idea of what is going on. This is done in a much higher speed than what they are teaching. So much higher that it's almost like a different language. Don't forget that even Chinesepod's upper intermediate level is still a bit slower than the real thing.

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simonpettersson
January 09, 2010, 09:57 AM

I would probably rate my speaking ability below my listening ability, if I'd ever spoken Chinese with somebody else but me. So I don't know if I'm even able to make myself understood to anyone but myself.

For learning to speak at a natural pace (it seems really quick to the learner, but it's just regular speed), I'd recommend doing shadowing. I think it's really helpful; it has certainly allowed me to speak at the same pace as natives.

Shadowing is listening to the audio in earphones and trying to keep up with it with your own speech, lagging as little as possible behind (usually about half a second or so). Working with the same audio over and over again, you can get there, but it's really hard in the beginning. Very good practice, in my opinion. It will force you to speak at the same pace and rythm as a native speaker, with the same prosody, with the same tones. That's my tip, anyway.

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paulinurus
January 09, 2010, 04:20 AM

I visited both sites. Liked the clear pronunciation of slow-chinese, however the material is beyond me at this time.

CSL Pod has been designed with some likeness to Cpod, including the line by line dialogue. Sounds like it caters to Japanese audience as well as English. The pronunciation feature from slow to natural speed could be useful for learning pronunciation... have bookmarked it. Thanks!

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hamshank
January 09, 2010, 12:30 PM

I agree with what you are saying in principle...but from my experience of trying to have simple conversations with natives is (depending on your skill) that it is "sometimes" better to talk a bit faster as you can get away with dropping a few tones or messing them up and still be understood.

When you talk a bit faster, the person you are talking to tends not to focus on every word and tone you are saying. I'm also 90% sure that the natives consistently drop tones, especially mid sentence without even realising. (Or perhaps my listening skills are not good enough yet)

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trevorb
January 09, 2010, 12:46 PM

I recently started to listen to intermediate lessons and the jump up is quite large, but despite not yet always understanding the lesson I think my familiarity with the language is increasing more quickly.

Maybe this is to do with the "music" of the language or maybe its because in straining to understand the bits i know I'm actually picking up more.

I now have a Satellite tv card in my computer and I often leave it on PCNE tv in the background just to listen to the stream.

When I first got my 550cc motorcycle opening the throttle wide open from standstill used to scare the living daylights out of me. After I'd been riding it for six months I'd open the throttle and wonder why acceleration was taking sooooo long. After a while you acclimatise and it becomes normal, if you always listen to slow Chinese you'll probably only ever be able to understand slow Chinese.....

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BEBC
January 09, 2010, 01:59 PM

I agree. The main problem for me when I started Intermed. was the non-lesson dialogue used by the hosts; however, I got used to that after a couple of months with the aid of a magical online translating machine. The more recent lessons also seem to be more user-friendly in terms of the commentary than the lessons from a year or two ago, so I'm working backwards from the most recent. I'm also walking backwards for Christmas, but that's just a whim.

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Tal
January 10, 2010, 12:58 AM

Thanks for posting those 2 sites Bob, I've bookmarked both and intend to use both for my personal/private study when I have the time.

It seems to me all you 'my speaking is way below my listening' people lack one thing mainly. Namely, real contact with Chinese speaking people in a situation where you can't just fall back on English. I'd have to say that it's living in China which has really increased my speaking ability, (I'm talking about being able to sustain any kind of meaningful conversation here, not just 'shadowing' or drilling oneself on tones or pronunciation from a recording.)

Obviously living outside China this is not perhaps an easy thing to arrange, but if one takes lessons from a tutor, (you do Bob, don't you? I never have,) I think there should be a period during each lesson when the tutor will just speak only Chinese to you, will 'tutor' you in simple conversation.

Simon, you're coming to China of course, but if you've really never opened your mouth to speak Chinese before, I think you're going to find it pretty hard going for a while, no matter how many CPod lessons you've got under your belt, and no matter how skilful a linguist you are, (and I do respect you Scandinavians and others who seem to have a brace of languages in your heads before you're "out of short pants", and seem to find picking up new ones pretty straightforward.)

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simonpettersson

Of course, when one is outside of China, one doesn't NEED any speaking skills.

Anyway, yeah, I'm convinced speaking with natives will be pretty tough. Everyone says so and I've never said otherwise. Especially since Guangdong people are likely to have a pretty strong accent, and probably a lot of local words loaned in from Cantonese that I can't learn from neither ChinesePod nor native media. I'll deal with it when I get there. It might take a couple of months before I can speak freely. I've got a year, so no biggie.

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simonpettersson
January 10, 2010, 09:28 AM

Of course, when one is outside of China, one doesn't NEED any speaking skills.

Anyway, yeah, I'm convinced speaking with natives will be pretty tough. Everyone says so and I've never said otherwise. Especially since Guangdong people are likely to have a pretty strong accent, and probably a lot of local words loaned in from Cantonese that I can't learn from neither ChinesePod nor native media. I'll deal with it when I get there. It might take a couple of months before I can speak freely. I've got a year, so no biggie.

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go_manly
January 09, 2010, 10:17 AM

I read up about shadowing last time it was raised here. It makes sense, but I'd only be able to do it inside my small unit - I'm not the type who could do it out on the street surrounded by strangers, or even in a quiet park knowing that someone might walk by.

You say it has allowed you to speak at the same rate as natives. But surely that is only when you mimic the voice on the tape. If you were to have a real conversation with someone (and you say you haven't) you have to actually think - first what did he just say, second what do I want to say in response, third how do I make a sentence out of it. I'm wondering how fast you would be able to talk then. I also wonder why there is a need to talk at the pace of a native.

When Chinese people come out here (ones that haven't reached a high English language standard) and they try to talk too fast, they are difficult to understand, and I'm sure the reverse is true. I would rather speak slowly and deliberately, and make myself understood. And if someone is talking too quickly, I would just ask them to slow down. If they don't, then I would ask the next person - there is no shortage.

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hamshank

I agree with what you are saying in principle...but from my experience of trying to have simple conversations with natives is (depending on your skill) that it is "sometimes" better to talk a bit faster as you can get away with dropping a few tones or messing them up and still be understood.

When you talk a bit faster, the person you are talking to tends not to focus on every word and tone you are saying. I'm also 90% sure that the natives consistently drop tones, especially mid sentence without even realising. (Or perhaps my listening skills are not good enough yet)