Learning Chinese Grammar from a 2-year old

Cute : ) A question...给吃了 gei3shi1le sounds awkward to my ears. Is that construction normal or is used by kiddies? Or, is it part of 把 ba3...给gei3 grammar pattern (if there is such a pattern)?

Today he learned 是。。。的. After he heard 不是我干的 from a kid's book he started constructing endless variations: 不是我干的 不是我吃的 不是我喝的。。。 His German grammar on the other hand is still pretty basic ("Papa macht", "Mama kauft"). If I could only spend more time at home... :(

Azer, I can't explain it grammatically, except to say that it is correct, or at least, people do say that. I always thought is wasn't correct, but people say it. I think there might be a 把 . . . 给 pattern. I am guilty of saying: 我把 X 给忘记了.

Also, I think using the 给 makes it sound like someone is specifically asking what the person (or in this case, leopard, did). If you just said 豹子吃了老鼠 it would be like you were announcing it for the first time, unprompted by question and you are saying it as a matter of fact, without any emphasis really.

Okay, I am an idiot. I didn't see Henning's responses when I posted mine. In any event, I (obviously) agree with him.

Thanks, guys, Really great stuff! Makes sense. One further point regarding 把...给, the following sentences illustrate how I'd usually use those 2 words: 请把那个给我，好不好？ 请把这个给他，好嗎？ qing3ba3 na4ge gei3wo3, hao3buhao3? qing3bazhe4ge gei3ta1, hao3ma? It seems the ba3...gei3 are used for their individual meanings in my sentences, but in hennings' son's example, ba3...gei3 seems to be used in a different way (as pulosm explains) and that is why it sounds awkward to me.

Doc, I actually discussed this for a while with my wife. Here the preliminary results: - the 给 is *not* kiddy language - yes, the 给 is informal - there is *no such thing as a dedicated 把...给-construction - the 给is used to emphasize the action - in the given case it would especially be used after questions like "So what did the leopard do?" - The 给 needs to be translated as "make" - an equivilant sentence would be 他把他的衣服弄脏了， with the 弄 in the same role as the 给 in the discussed example

I've just consulted "A New Chinese-English Dictionary of Function Words". This is what they have to say: 'Gei3 is used before the predicate for stress.' There are at least two structures possible. The first is the above ba3...gei3 one. 1.警察把那个家伙给抓住了. Jing3cha2 ba3 na4ge jia1huo gei3 zhua1zhu le. The police caught that guy. The second possible construction is the bei4...gei3 one, whereas 被 is often replaced by 让 or 叫. Thus we can have: 2. 他家让那场火灾给毁了. Ta1jia1 rang4 na4 chang2 huo3zai1 gei3 hui3 le. His house was destroyed by the fire. 3. 那个花瓶叫他的孩子给打破了. Na4ge hua1ping2 jiao4 ta1 de hai2zi gei3 da3po4 le. The vase was broken by his child.

Wow I don't think the child realized that such a simple sentence would prompt such a detailed response. Your child's a star wtihout even trying.

Hey ppl . I am chinese if there are any questions about learning chinese , I woulde like to help with your guys , And also , I study english myself , so ,I look forward to findding a study partenr . My msn :shellychen97@msn.com before add me tell me from chinesepod ,ok ? I have readed some questions of what u ppl talking about , Yes , if the sencense there is a 把 could be followed with 给。 we always use the this medol of sentense to express make something change. For example: 我今天把作业都写完了=我今天把作业都给写完了 The same meaning . after 把 there will be something t( a noun ) hat we have done some change. after 给,we use a verb ，express the action . 豹子把老鼠吃了= 豹子把老鼠给吃了 so normally , with 给 or without 给 ，in the sentnces like use 把 means the same . sorry my english . if u guys have any more questions write to me .

Wow. Good info. Sounds like a future Qing Wen topic to me.

pulosm, it never hurts to get second or third opinions, put differently and coming from a different angle. Besides I highly value yours. As I posted above my answers are preliminary.