How would you translate "Chutzpah" into Chinese?

sbw06
June 28, 2007, 02:26 AM posted in General Discussion
I don't know if anyone here is going to know what chutzpah is in English, even, but it's a Yiddish term that refers to great audacity or nerve.  A New Yorker cartoon once put it very succinctly: a guy walks into a bookstore and says to the clerk "I'm looking for a book on chutzpah and I want you to pay for it".  How do you say this in Chinese?  I have come up with 大胆,无礼and 勇气 but I'm not sure any of them really conveys the same sorts of meaning.
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henning
June 28, 2007, 05:25 AM

Now I eventually know what the German "Chuzpe" originates from. Very helpful - often thought about what that strange little word comes from. Regarding the Chinese translation: dict.cn leads me to 胆大妄为 dǎn dà wàng wéi or 放肆 fàng sì But both do not seem to fit very well as they seem to be utterly negative and lack the respect that resonates with Chutzpah/Chuzpe.

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RonInDC
June 29, 2007, 01:44 PM

AZERdocMom- 'I heard the term used a lot while growing up in New York City. I don't hear it much out here in AZ.' I think there's a reason for that ;-) Actually, in the last 15 years or so, it seems that term has lessened quite a bit, I think because the culture has become more civil there. We're talking degree, though ;-)

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Lantian
June 28, 2007, 09:11 AM

敢: to dare, gan3。 在中国我不敢过马路。 你太凶,我不敢! 干: to do, in a very generic sense 你在干什么? 干不干。 你干吧。 勇气: courage, but in a more noble sense. There's a pop song, sappy and sentimental, 爱真需要勇气。。。我们都需要勇气

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fudawei
June 28, 2007, 09:50 AM

You won't find a good translation. It's one of those unique words like "Gemütlichkeit", "sisu", or "ἀρετή" (arete) that's wrapped deeply into a culture. You might as well ask how to translate 气 (qì) into Navajo. "Chutzpah" is not simply audacity, nerve or gall. It's audacity so outrageous ... a repugnant assault on our sensibilities so offensive ... that we (ironically) come back full-circle and start to admire it. It's a guy on trial for murdering his parents with an ax -- then begging mercy from the judge due to the fact that he's an orphan.

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sbw06
June 28, 2007, 11:20 PM

Thanks for all the input, and glad I could even help some to understand German etymology better! I have also found another possible translation: 厚颜 (hòu yán), which Wenlin says means brazen or shameless.

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aaronpan
June 29, 2007, 04:18 AM

Hi,I am come from China and am native speaker,so i think I can answer this question. chutzpah means 放肆 but in China we also can use 胆大妄为 or 好大的胆子 to replace 放肆 for example 你竟敢偷我的钱,你好大的胆子! 他今天居然没有去工作,他真是胆大妄为。 你竟敢和你老板(boss)顶嘴(backchat) 你好放肆! so, accroding to these examples I think u can figure out that 放肆 is more formal

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azerdocmom
June 29, 2007, 04:22 AM

Fudawei That's an awesome explanation of chutzpah! Totally hits it right on the nose, a perfect explanation of its meaning. I heard the term used a lot while growing up in New York City. I don't hear it much out here in AZ.

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henning
June 29, 2007, 05:06 AM

aaronpan, thanks for the expanations and the examples. Although that vocab seems to go in the right direction the sentences show that it is still does not capture "100% chutzpah". It misses the over-the-top and respect element that FuDaWei described above. But I also believe there is no Mandarin word for that. It is simply a culturally incompatible concept.

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goulnik
June 29, 2007, 05:07 AM

at least I now know that Yiddish is 依地语 (Yīdìyǔ)

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aaronpan
June 29, 2007, 05:14 AM

hening How about this phrase--厚脸皮. 厚脸皮is an informal phrase,it usually used in the oral Chinese

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Lantian
June 28, 2007, 09:03 AM

大蛋 when playing sports with other guys 有敢 in context of a situation, 他真有敢。什么都敢做。 他什么都不怕,都敢。

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goulnik
June 29, 2007, 05:25 AM

sbw06, Wenlin also has 厚颜无耻 (hòuyánwúchǐ) impudent; shameless

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aaronpan
June 29, 2007, 05:30 AM

Actually,Chuzpe have several meanings in Chinese.Like 厚脸皮,无耻 or 胆大妄为 However 无耻and大胆 both are essential meanings. Just like the english word--mean,have many meanings in Chinese

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henning
June 29, 2007, 05:59 AM

Thanks aaronpan, learned a lot of vocab & usage here from you!

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lostinasia
June 29, 2007, 08:21 AM

From above - "But I also believe there is no Mandarin word for that. It is simply a culturally incompatible concept." Best be careful with ideas like this: language may give implications about a culture, but it doesn't define or limit it. English doesn't have a word for chutzpah either; that's why we stole the Yiddish. (And I very much doubt the English usage precisely matches the Yiddish.) Neither chutzpah nor entrepreneur are from English, yet both are definitely compatible with North American culture. From the other side, English has no word for 前天, but we can most certainly understand the idea of two days earlier/ ago. I wouldn't say that it's culturally incompatible, just that there's no direct equivalent. (I say this having been at the receiving end of too many conversations along the lines of "Oh, you're not Chinese, you can't possibly understand.") This thread has really made me laugh (in a good way!) - doesn't anyone else see the irony and fun futility of trying to capture the *exact* meaning and nuance of chutzpah in Chinese, when we can't even capture the precise meaning in English? (Brazen and ballsy both seem close but not quite right.)

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henning
June 29, 2007, 08:27 AM

LostInAsia, I did not mean to imply that "Chuzpa" "cannot be thought with a Chinese background. But from what I see the Culture also has no nutricious fertilizer for such a word to grow on its own - you need a loanword (same in English and German).

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fudawei
June 29, 2007, 08:32 AM

LiA: No one said that the concept couldn't be conveyed. Merely that there wasn't a simple term that encapsulates it.

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lostinasia
June 29, 2007, 08:53 AM

Fair enough (to both henning and FuDaWei) - I just get wary when I see things that MAY imply people from one culture can't understand things from another culture. (Apologies for misreading you, henning.) I didn't see that happening here, but I've seen it enough in other places that I'm on my guard against it. I'm also enjoying the fun of looking for a non-English word in Chinese... it's just a delightfully unexpected direction. Next I'm expecting questions about elan or Kwanzaa or schaudenfreude (sp?) in Chinese. Oh, and while it may be impossible to capture the exact meaning and nuance in Chinese (or English), we can have fun and learn a lot by trying.

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azerdocmom
June 29, 2007, 01:33 PM

i love the respectful mutual learning of the community; that respectful tone is set from the top down ("that tone" hehe...mandarin language...get it?)

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aaronpan
June 29, 2007, 05:23 AM

For example M:他到现在都还没有还我钱。 W:他真是个厚脸皮。 厚脸皮的意思比较广泛,一般在口语中使用,,脸皮厚的人和不知羞耻是同一个意思,但不可以作为放肆理解或胆大妄为理解