Groups Filter on Dashboard

You're absolutely right--simply allow filtering in the Dashboard, and to leave the Community Conversations Page unfiltered. So, all postings are shown on the Community Conversations Page just like before. is what makes the most sense. That's what I would like.

Zhen, your "up here" link does not work. However, I've read your post on your observations as a new user. I'm surprised that lesson conversations are now showing up in the Conversation Page even though a user did not select certain lesson levels. For example, I've not selected Media so Media conversations do not appear on my Conversation Page. Aiyo, it is so confusing what's in and what's not!

Anyway, my proposal in an attempt to satisfy both types of users ( "the silent majority who wants to participate however are intimidated by the vocal minority - as so says Cpod" and the "vocal minority" ) and also for non serendipitous discovery of new groups, is to simply allow filtering in the Dashboard, and to leave the Community Conversations Page unfiltered. So, all postings are shown on the Community Conversations Page just like before. As Cpod now says on the How Do I Use The Community Section banner: "All of the conversations occurring across the site are aggregated here". So, any user interested in Community groups can simply browse through the Conversations Pages and see groups they might be interested to join .

What is wrong with this win-win approach?

Paul, like I say up here, because you have all the lesson conversations (not the lesson groups though, except for your own level group) actually it looks very 热闹--you just have no idea how much more there is that you don't see. And as of now it's--to borrow Bodawei's term--pretty much serendipitous, if you do come across an interesting Group on your own.

He he, I agree with you! I'm also baffled as to why Cpod is resisting a win-win solution. Users who do not wish to to venture into the community can remain so in their dashboard cacoons of filtered groups, while those who wish to see what's new and what's up with the community can visit the Community Page and scroll through all the postings from all groups. One would think that this approach will easily and conveniently promote participation by more poddies (and save time and inconvenience of staff and users having to promote new groups), which was the intention of all these tech changes in the first place. I don't buy Cpod's excuse that is technologically challenging to include all posts in the Community Page. Such was the case before all these tech changes (to improve users experience, ha,ha) in the first place.

Personally, from a business case perspective, I find the strategy of putting blinders on new users is as lame and soggy as over cooked noodles. I would want new users to integrate into the community as easily and quickly as possible. But having been here a year and half, it's no big deal for me.

p.s. Cpod, since you have now placed blinders on new users, you need to remove the banner "How Do I Use The Community Section". It doesn't generate a warm and trusted feeling when a new user discovers a community of only News and Features.

the ironic thing is that the filter was not working properly anyway and the "all my posts" option was showing everything. (or very nearly so). CPOD seemed to be unaware of this until it was pointed out, so how important can it be? It also points out that it is feasible, if they can do it by accident, surely they can do it on purpose. :-) the other issue is that the filter is working properly on the dashboard (home page). Those folks that want currently to see only all their groups can use that as home base. The rest of us can use the community page. To be honest, all these changes aimed at making the site less cluttered and confusing have done just the opposite. I also have to wonder it they contacted any of these surveyed folks and asked them what they think of it now. I have yet to hear much praise from anyone. At the end of the day we all use the system differently and we all must adjust and develop our own "work withs" and "work arounds" that suit us. I can work this system as well as the old one but this one is just more work. If there are a large number of people who like it this way then I have no problem with the little extra effort it takes from me but I cant help but get the distinct impression that this whole thing was a misguided attempt and we are all suffering for nothing.

xiaophil,

I do seem to recall John making some response too,but I don't recall getting a clear cut answer to it as it was early days in the changeover. I think it was more of a "noted" type response leaving one with the feeling that we'd get an answer down the track. I may have this all wrong but that is the impression I've been left with. If it is not technically feasible [surprising ...but I'm not in IT either] then it would be nice to hear that so we can just accept it and move on. As always I respect what is CPod's decision in the end but as they have been asking for feedback on what would improve user experience I'm just pointing out what I see as the root of many problems for some...if this could be fixed than I think many other things will fall into place. But of course that's just my opinion. Once again I'd just like to say how much I appreciate all that CPod does for us in a job that can't be easy. You're all tops. Cheers :)

Catherine, Baba, RJ

I could be wrong, but I thought someone, and I want to say it was John, said that a "see all groups function" was technically unfeasible. Do I have my facts straight? It seems strange that it would be unfeasible, but I'm not a website designer.

That said, some of the user groups are very productive and add value to chinesepod.com. I mean, I know that 中文吧 and others are not for everyone, but it is very helpful for some, and just seeing people actually using Chinese on a Chinese language website is obviously beneficial, right? I cannot understand why CPod is stubbornly willing to sacrifice/hurt the positive input that some of us have done, just to try to appeal to people who may or may not join in the process. I guess what I am saying is that if a win-win is not possible, I don't think CPod should bite the hand that feeds it. And if there is a win-win solution, but we have to wait for it to be implemented, why not make the people who want filters wait instead of making those who are positively active suffering while a solution is made? What do you think?

I'm curious, and this is an honest question, is this new filter system working? Are there more people posting? I really don't see more people posting, but perhaps it is because of the filter.

Ah shucks, maybe I should just give up. All this nitpicking is wasting time. Perhaps I should just hang out more at nciku.com. It's free.

I have to agree with baba and this has been pointed out before. I am continually baffled by cpod's reluctance to accept solutions that are the best of both worlds and satisfy both camps. Isn't a "win-win" the best win?

catherine,

One of the major problems with the "view all," which we had before, is that it does not help the people who have told us explicitly that there is too much going on in the community, and that they find it overwhelming (especially when conversations are way above or below their level, or when conversations are about stuff unrelated to Chinese language learning).

I hear you on this and understand the purpose behind this and respect those who don't want to be overwhelmed . What I'm finding a lot harder to understand is why that can't be an option you can select from the drop down menu. Can we have an answer on that? Those that don't want to be overwhelmed would simply not select it . It could even be at the bottom of the list [the default could be "all my groups" ]. Surely this would suit both camps...those that want it all and those that only want select bits.

I'm sorry to have posted this more than once but I don't believe this question has ever been directly addressed unless I missed it,and I don't think I miss too much.

xiaophil,

We have been meeting a lot to develop a plan to nurture and develop user groups. We feel that they have the potential to be a valuable element of both the community here and the learning process. I agree with you that there is still a lot of work to be done, and that mentioning a group each week in our News and Features show is not enough.

I'm sure you already know this but you can leave user groups. Open the page of the group you want to leave and check out the left-hand sidebar. There is a button that says "leave this group," which will unsubscribe you from conversations happening in that group.

I hear what you're saying about making all conversations. We are still working on a compromise - a system in which people don't have to waste their time continually trying to find new groups or revive old ones. One of the major problems with the "view all," which we had before, is that it does not help the people who have told us explicitly that there is too much going on in the community, and that they find it overwhelming (especially when conversations are way above or below their level, or when conversations are about stuff unrelated to Chinese language learning).

We feel that by having users opt into conversations (instead of being in them all from the get-go) that the community will be a more inviting place. That being said, there is still a lot of work to do to make sure that groups are easy to find, easy to join and full of conversations.

Believe me when I say that the development and promotion of groups is a priority for us here. I would encourage you to send us any and all ideas you've got (or to post them here). I will continue to keep you appraised of developments on this front.

Good to hear. Thanks for all your (and the team behind your public voice) hard work over the last couple of days Catherine. The increased activity of Cpod folks on the message board has really made the site feel a lot more friendly and involved. Thumbs up.

We have a lot of things in discussion and in the works to address these concerns and to make groups both more visible and more user friendly. I am going home for the day but will address this at more length tomorrow when I'm back in the office.

Catherine yes I did find that out:

http://chinesepod.com/community/conversations/post/9301#comment-180294

I'm totally with Baba on his question in reply to the comment you linked to. I never meant imposing a view-all on anyone. Why can we not have the option to select View All?

New users are automatically members of our News and Features group. This way they are aware of news, updates to the site, upcoming lessons, etc. As for the "view all," please see my comment below.

Zhen

No, you don't seem like an attack dog, and I didn't intend to imply I think anyone is too harsh or what not. I try to measure myself against myself and not in relation to others (at least that's the ideal). What other people say or do I try to let it be their own business as far as judgments go, unless of course it is far over the line.

Mm? 是个词语吗？我以为是一个很有名的人物的名字…

ni zhen cong ming ! ....I knew you'd know that character of course but I thought the word I was making it part of was possibly a tad obscure....so you know of course I was just kidding around :)

Yes that's the part I didn't need to look up. hehehe

zhen,

yeah ,well ,don't forget my kids are always telling me that their generation don't use a lot of the expressions common in my day. They seem a lot more Americanised these days. I guess language is a constantly evolving thing as well all know and some things just go out of fashion.

Did you get my little reference with 青?

Baba every day I learn English (Australian) here, if not Chinese ...

Zhen,

In your case ,just don't add 青 at the end and she'll be apples.

mmm ... I don't mean to present myself that way either. Anyway you wouldn't have an attack dog aura, even without the apologies and reassurances, I'm saying.

So I have that aura about me? You can be honest.

Oh well, doesn't really matter. I just want to get some studying done now.

小腓力

I just don't want to produce an aura of attack dog about me.

那，如果是这样的话，你应该保住你的名字，千万别成为大吠力

well you know mate I see things the same way as you do so agree with what you've just written. I guess I'm coming at it from the angle that I don't see why it has to be an either/or scenario....I don't see why there can't be a few options to keep everyone happy.

Zhen

Actually, I really don't feel all that guilty. I just don't want to produce an aura of attack dog about me. That's just me.

Baba

Actually, I wouldn't unsubscribe to any of them either. I never felt like there was information overload here.

My reasoning for why an unsubscribe function is reasonable is as follows. There really are not all that many groups here at CPod that are regularly used. As has been noted quite a few times, most of the groups are just wasting away. Therefore, if say,a newbie, feels overwhelmed by seeing too much high level chit-chat, it really isn't hard to unsubscribe to those, what, five frequently used groups, ten tops.

Now as I said before, this blinder function is quite hurtful to groups. I have been considering running periodic advertisements for 中文吧 and "I Have a Question" just so new arrivals know that it exists. That's ridiculous that I should have to consider that, but under the current system, I don't see how anything but dwindling users will occur.

Ah and this is the thing, with General Discussion. I thought for some reason all of us users were automatically in this Group--we didn't have to go and actively choose to join it do we? Do you mean some of us automatically included in it could have left?

Actually I created a trial account this morning (under my real name. CPod--the username is "suibiankankan") because I wanted to see what view a trial user would have coming here. I left my academic level at the default Newbie, and found that the only two Groups I automatically got added to were the Newbie, and News and Features groups. Not General Discussion. So the Conversations page showed me all Lesson Channel conversations, Newbie Group and News and Features Group conversations. Looked like a lot of action actually. You'd never know how much else is going on that you're unaware of. It was weird being aware of that.

And as you browse (oh CPod, the Take a Tour of the Community Section is broken so you can only see pages 1 and 2, out of 5. will post this again elsewhere) you occasionally see the notices of Groups. But partly because the current Groups page is still not good at giving people an idea of which Groups are "important"--even with the new filters--you don't get sufficient orientation at all. Of course this is just my opinion, my sense of how it felt. And of course I'm not a real newcomer and I know how things are different from before the current system.

Xiaophil I have to say I really don't see why you should always apologize for offering your feedback, or remind CPod that you're their fan and not down on them. Same with me, though I really think there are too many bad ideas recently that should have been considered better before implementing (and are now being withdrawn because some of us raised our voices about them). You're never rude and I think you're a lot more patient than most people. Of course your questions are constructive. And if you did nag, so what?

Speaking just for myself, I could easily withhold all negative feedback and in the end just decide to quietly take my business elsewhere, but I'm a bit friendlier than that.

xiaophil,

personally this would suit me as I would never unsubscribe to anything,but I'm not sure it's the best solution [on it's own] as those who only want to belong to one or two groups may not want to unsubscribe to a large number of existing groups and new groups that could keep popping up. Sorry to reiterate what I've written elsewhere but I would prefer a drop down list option "all groups" .That is not to say that having the ability to approach groups from both directions couldn't be another option as well.That is to say to have a priority set in your account which says "subscribe me automatically to all groups" and then have the ability to unsubscribe to those you don't like.The other direction would be to not tick that option so you weren't subscribed to any group until you chose to subscribe.

hehe,yeah a great Tok Pisin word....very hard to rival

I am pretty much in favour of the new Group about Technical Problems, thanks Catherine. It is already causing controversy deciding whose original idea it was - it certainly needs a better name than 'Technical Problems on Site'. eeerk, what are we, Microsoft?

I would like to sponsor the name 'Bugarup'... sounds an okay name? :) Post it on Bugarup.. check on Bugarup... I saw it on Bugarup... works for me. (It is a Tok Pisin word covering all things dysfunctional.)

But I see a problem of co-ordination already - with any number of posts within the group there is no global view. I'm already lost. Still lost.

And I would like a page dedicated to reviving the technical functionality of Groups dedicated to me. :) Just kidding.