China's national census
bodawei
October 10, 2010 at 03:26 PM posted in General DiscussionChina's sixth nationwide census will start on Nov. 1 and finish in June 2012, Guangzhou Daily reported on Tuesday.
The census-takers will go into every household to collect data from Nov. 1 to Nov. 10. They will ask for private information, such as nationality, education, occupation, marital status, births, social security, death and housing.
People from Hong Kong, Macao, Taiwan and foreigners living and working on the mainland will be counted for the first time during the sixth national census.
From People's Daily Online, 2010/10/10
Notices have already gone up - my notice says that data collections officially started 2010/10/08.
I would like to follow any other poddies' experiences with the census collectors ..
I've learnt a little vocabulary already - they will ask if I am 流动 liúdòng (itinerant). I wonder if foreigners will be asked the full range of questions?
I think I will start by writing out the notice，headed 温馨提示 wēnxīntíshì (amusingly translated as 'Warm Tips' at a nearby public toilet.)
bodawei
November 22, 2010 at 07:50 AM
Good point, tgif. I am not trying to confuse anyone. I think that when I signed up for ChinesePod Jan 2009 I was living in Australia and I never thought to change it. Now you ask, I realise that I am not sure of the purpose of declaring your 'country'; it could be nationality, could be place of residence.
bababardwan
November 12, 2010 at 01:12 PM
"Or maybe some people will welcome the opportunity for confusion."
lol.
hey, thanks for sharing all these observations mate. Interesting. Particularly interesting is the attitude which I would have not expected.
bodawei
November 12, 2010 at 03:57 PM
Maybe my final offering.. :)
you commented on 是否识字. I asked a mate who said that he thought that four years of schooling, but possibly as little as two years of schooling would qualify for a 是的 response. Being able to scratch out your name, and read the toilet doors, and not much else, if that doesn't sound too cynical. But my qualification is that my mate is one of those opting out. He can't understand any of the fun that I'm having.. :)
bodawei
November 11, 2010 at 02:32 PM
As the sun sets on the 6th National Population Census I will toss a few more thoughts/findings in the air. One of the things I found most interesting is that the Chinese Census is based on the 户口 (an ID book which you can think of as rather like your passport) whereas in Australia and possibly other Western countries it is based on the household. It is a much more significant difference than it sounds. (But note, there is one question on the Census form that attempts a count of the number of people in 'the household'.)
As one Chinese friend said ..'why don't they just add up the information on the 户口 data base?' and the answer is they don't trust the data base. But neither should they trust the Census - and here the Chinese attitude to 'authority' is quite telling. I thought Australians disrespected the 'bosses' but the Chinese have kind of raised this to an art form. I'll just say that there is ample opportunity to (a) opt out, (b) fudge the truth, and (c) confuse the authorities, with or without intent.
There are several opportunities for confusion - one is in the count of people in the 户口 - there is also a question that asks (in the past 12 months) how many people were born, and how many people died. But it is unclear how this relates to the total in the 户口, which could well be not updated. So are the births added to the 户口 total or are they inclusive? There is a check in that each living person should be listed separately elsewhere on the form, but I expect at least some people will be confused by this. Or maybe some people will welcome the opportunity for confusion.
Another source of confusion is the 户口 itself. The Census form starts by categorising you as having a 'family' based one or a 'public' one - you would have the latter if you work for a large Government employer like the army, or if you are a student at university etc. Then, you can in many cases choose how to be counted - you could do it at home, or at work, or in your home town (which could be a long way from where you live.) You do have to state your address but .. And the Chinese people I have spoken to about it seem to enjoy the general confusion.
Further on this - a man, his wife and a child could be all on the same 户口. But the child could live overseas; they will still appear in the count, but their current address should be shown. Also, the wife could have her own 户口; I am not sure of the rules about this. But if she does, then as I understand it two Census forms would be completed, even if husband and wife completed them at home. They could of course choose to complete them at work. But this is not so important in a system which has the 户口 as its base.
To put the contrast with the West in perspective, a household in China where there are four young unrelated people living together would fill out four Census forms for the one dwelling. In Australia they would all go on the one form, because they form a household.
A final comment: the 'other' questions are limited to (i) area of the dwelling in square metres, and (ii) number of bedrooms. Limited as they are, it will be a nightmare to avoid double counting of dwellings and their characteristics. In the West we ask a range of detailed questions (apart from the population basics) to profile the social and economic and the physical environment, all useful in the development and implementation of Government programs. Many Chinese people feel this fairly modest range of questions an imposition, perhaps because of a level of cynicism about the government.
bodawei
November 10, 2010 at 06:30 AM
The data collection finishes today according to the publicity. Disappointed by my 'foreigner' form I sat it out (okay, I forgot to fill it in) and today the Census collectors came to our door. They didn't have a foreigner form so I got a Chinese form - cool. Questions they bothered with:
姓名
与户主关系
性别
出生年月
民族 ... that did cause some problems - eventually they left it blank :)
高开户口登记地时间
高开户口登记地原因
户口性质
是否识字
受教育程度
I also discovered that it works a little differently to our Australian Census in that it is not restricted to who normally lives at home - eg. if you have a child studying overseas they are included in the count.
bodawei
November 10, 2010 at 09:51 AM
I like your thinking on the 民族 or 少数民族 - but it is a big church (as people used to say, I'm not sure why.) I have maybe a dozen 少数民族 students out of about 100, quite a large percentage. Not only from Yunnan, one from 东北 and one from 福建 just off the top of my head. Clever economics students, definitely literate. On the other hand many 少数民族 are in the poorest strata of society here (in the second poorest province in China.) I am told that many cannot speak 普通话 - but they can read more than likely. So I guess that they would answer 是的。 Maybe my 'mother' in the above story can also read but not write, I don't know.
bababardwan
November 10, 2010 at 08:21 AM
"foreigners are literate"...I guess taken at it's word it could refer to literate in any language, but I'm wondering if that's what they're looking for or rather literate in Chinese. ...and where would the 民族 stand on this front?
Nice anecdote btw mate. :)
bodawei
November 10, 2010 at 08:11 AM
'爽。。。crikey I love that character...reminds me of Liberace...'
Love it. All bling. :)
bodawei
November 10, 2010 at 08:08 AM
I would think that 识字 and 认字 are practically different - dictionary suggests that the first meaning is 'have you learnt to read?' and the second meaning is 'literate'. It may not seem much of a distinction in the West. In China this might be a proxy for 'have you been to school?' [I posted recently about how I asked a woman her name and then wrote the characters in my notebook - she looked emotional and said 'you know, my mother cannot do that - she cannot write at all'.] We tend to take literacy for granted in the West. (it would be interesting to get a teacher's response on the difference between 识字 and 认字)
BTW the Census guy didn't ask me the question, maybe because I was reading the questions over his shoulder, or because he just assumed that foreigners are literate.
bodawei
November 10, 2010 at 07:53 AM
China is a male-dominated society (witness just one female in the top governing body since 1949). I was listed first on the form. The Census guy filled in all answers except 'name' - we wrote that in English.
bodawei
November 10, 2010 at 07:50 AM
It was all in Chinese, 没关系 。。
I said '澳大利亚 - which is what I think we would say in the West - my nationality is Australian, doubtful I think that Australia qualifies as a nationality in China. :)
They didn't write anything down, so I said 外国的 (without much enthusiasm) because I was told that foreigners are technically considered 民族 for the One Child Policy. They didn't write that down either. I can see their problem - the question is there to distinguish people according to the 56 'nationalities' of China. I wonder what other foreigner poddies experienced with that one?
bababardwan
November 10, 2010 at 07:18 AM
hmm, interesting. This 识字 meaning learn to read is like a synonym of a word zhen taught me the other day ...认字 meaning literate. Both words have taken one half of 认识, and I'm not clear on the distinction between the two words, if any.
It's just uncanny how often words you've recently learnt pop up. I mean I know CPod has a clever way of 故意 doing this, with todays lesson being no exception [eg 逛..and also as has been noted between levels..this 专卖店的专 was a regular on the 媒体课程“出租白人”】 but this is also occurring in non lesson threads like now, or out in the real world [ a Chinese mate said 大商场 to me only yesterday after I initially thought he was maybe trying to say 市场】. Anyhow, it feels cool [or I guess I should now say 爽。。。crikey I love that character...reminds me of Liberace...a guy wearing a sparkly coat] and I guess one thing that keeps us coming back for more, hehe.
bababardwan
November 10, 2010 at 06:54 AM
I like this one:
与户主关系
which I take to be : your relationship to the head of the family [eg son]. I guess in the olden days this would often have been the eldest male? dui bu dui? What about now? let's say you have 奶奶，爷爷， 爸爸，妈妈，and 孩子all living together. Who's the 户主 there? I guess it'd be safe to say [in most cases anyway] that it's not the 孩子。And yeah, how do foreigners address this question? [hehe, personally I couldn't care less if I were filling out the form, but the Chinese current take on this I would find interesting]
..it also reminds me of one part of an episode of China Rush where the question was posed on one of the clues as to who was the leader of the team.
bababardwan
November 10, 2010 at 06:44 AM
民族 ... that did cause some problems - eventually they left it blank :)
...was it an interview conducted entirely in Chinese and they couldn't understand 澳大利亚人 or was there some other issue?
..or are we taking 民族 in the ethnic sense rather than nationality sense, and you had your family tree mapped out for them back to William the Conqueror?
suxiaoya
November 04, 2010 at 03:39 PM
A lady from my compound just came round as part of the census. Chanelle77, I felt sort of proud to be included, too!
It started out as a very simple procedure of ticking boxes on a form. However, it turns out that this lady can talk! 她是上海最爱说话的人; we ended up chatting for about forty-five minutes about life in China and England. She then presented me with a shopping bag and a face cloth to commemorate the census.
It was fun! Quality, one-on-one conversation practice and some free stuff, plus you get to feel "involved". Brilliant. I love the census :-)
chanelle77
October 15, 2010 at 01:07 AM
About two weeks ago, there was a nice lady from the governments national census at my door and wanted me to answer a few questions and needed our passports. At first I did not realize this was the census thing and it took me a minute to realize what was going on and what she wanted. I saw the notice on buses in Nanjing just 2 days before and suddenly I remembered!
This lady (and her colleages) in Nanjing did not have any special form and could not speak English. Everything was in Chinese. So, we discussed everything in Chinese and I ended up translating the form for her and writing a little notice in English for other Laowei who live on my compound and others close to us. All in all it was a nice experience :-)
chanelle77
October 16, 2010 at 12:55 AM
Yes!, I remember she asked me about children (we do not have any yet). They also asked questions about the house (landlord), they knew she owns it.
Will keep an eye on this thread to see if you got the form and I am also very curious about the full range and if it is the same!
Very interesting thread btw thx for that! :-)
bodawei
October 15, 2010 at 02:11 PM
Hi Chanelle
Not at all weird - I am jealous that you got the Chinese form, but I am still curious. I expect that the Chinese form has many more than eight questions. It definitely has a question about the number of children you have had 'in wedlock'; do you remember that? That is not in the foreign version. Maybe they used the Chinese form and only asked you the foreign questions? It should also have questions about the kind of dwelling you live in? I plan to get one of those forms tomorrow - I would really like to see the full range of questions.
chanelle77
October 15, 2010 at 10:13 AM
Hi Bodawei,
Have the feeling that this was the real census thing they had badges and explained it to me. And yes I think those are the exact questions she asked, but there was no form for foreigners.
I also had to sign on the Chinese form after the lady filled it out. I had to look up for her how to write Amsterdam!
As far as I know, nothing is mentioned at my husbands job, but I will ask out of curiosity :-) !
After that I felt sort of proud to be also taken into account in the census thing or or is that weird haha?
bodawei
October 15, 2010 at 02:45 AM
Hi Channelle
Maybe she was doing a little forward planning? She should have asked you at least 8 questions:
姓名
与户主关系
性别
出生年月
来大陆或来华目的
已在大陆或在华居住时间
受教育程度
身份或国籍
There is a special form for foreigners. Everyone (Chinese and foreigners) will have their details written on a feng1biao3 (form) and you have to sign, confirming that the information is accurate.
The most common way to collect the information would be at your husband's workplace, I would imagine. Have they mentioned it there? You need only one fengbiao per household.
bodawei
October 13, 2010 at 11:40 AM
Meanwhile, the Economist is running a story on China’s one child policy, which is coming under pressure from within. But though many Chinese would like to see the policy lifted, the Chinese Academy for Social Scientists says that the problem will be getting women to want to have more than one child:
Some Chinese scholars argue that the government is at risk of overdoing things. They say the country’s fertility rate may actually be much lower than the official figure of around 1.8. This number has been used for more than a decade … It suggests a comfortable levelling off after a steep decline in the rate in the 1970s, after mild childbirth restrictions were introduced.
The recent CASS report said the rate that would be expected if women had exactly as many children as allowed would be 1.47. The government uses the higher figure believing that many “black children” were missed by censuses. But the report disagreed, saying such serious underreporting was unlikely. It said data showed that the 150m-strong migrant population has a fertility rate of only 1.14 (similar to that of registered urban residents). This belies the common image of migrants as big producers of unauthorised offspring. Zhang Juwei of CASS believes the overall fertility rate is no higher than 1.6.
China cannot avoid its looming ageing problem, but these lower fertility estimates suggest its impact could be greater than officials have bargained for. The CASS study calls for a “prompt” change of policy to get the fertility rate up to around the “replacement level” of 2.1. The problem could be in persuading Chinese to have more children. In cities and wealthier rural areas, surveys found that the number of babies women said they actually wanted would produce a fertility rate well below 1.47.
[From the Joyfulpapist blog on Wordpress]*
* I am aware that they may have a barrow to push. :)
bodawei
October 12, 2010 at 03:24 PM
婚姻生育 (marriage & childbirth)
I believe this is where they ask you for details of children born in wedlock. What happens about children born out of wedlock? Are they not counted in the Census? Do they get a 户口? Any poddies know anything about this?
bodawei
October 13, 2010 at 11:48 AM
Hmm - seems that this is a live issue:
A police directive said that, in preparation for [the National Census], officials must give household registration papers [ie. 户口] to children born in violation of family-planning directives. Normally such papers are handed to “black children”, as offspring like Mr Yang’s are commonly known, only on payment of a huge fine (or fee, as officials say). In cities this is often between five and ten times the local average annual income.*
But officials have been trying to quash the speculation, saying that “fees” will still be imposed.
[The Economist, 2010/08/19]
* 'Mr Yang' is the activist who was widely publicised in March for having a second child in violation of the rules. It was reported in various places that he haid he 'wanted a boy' and apparently had a girl who he called 若男 Ruonan (like a boy).
bodawei
October 11, 2010 at 02:06 AM
More vocabulary from the notice (again, corrections are welcome):
进行登记 (to carry out registration/complete the forms)
物业管理 (property management)
住户 (householder)
户口册 (residence book)
相关证件 (related paperwork – ie. related to户口册)
单位，物管公司或者据委会 (your work, the property management office, or the census committee)
望 (expect/hope)
名位住户 (a respectful reference to the householder)
给予 (to give or afford)
大力 (great efforts, energetic)
支持 (to support or provide)
配合 (co-operation), so
望名位住户给予大力支持配合 ([we the committee].. would like your enthusiastic co-operation)
bodawei
October 10, 2010 at 11:16 PM
The part I find interesting is the process (how different to the West!) The use of a street organising committee to supervise data collection. Furthermore, the delegation to our 小区 staff to collect information (where you have property management people on site). There will be a cost in accuracy, but it saves resources. In Australia we do employ volunteers to collect information but there is standardized nation-wide training and close supervision. Also, they can come to our door any time up to 10 pm! Whoa, that wouldn't happen in Australia.
I have already been involved in a kind of survey in this area - pretty funny. It was to gauge reaction to a levy on property owners to undertake important public works. It was made clear to me that 'everyone' was voting 'no'. The locals thought this was something the 'government' should be paying for. Also, they wanted my name even though I am just a tenant.
bababardwan
October 10, 2010 at 09:07 PM
yeah, this 温馨提示 is interesting.
温...warm
馨..fragrant
提..to mention
示..to show
提示..to draw attention to something
It's the 温馨 [also meaning warm] part that's interesting. I guess it's used in the sense of warming you up to the idea? Getting you ready in advance for something upcoming they're bringing to your attention. Anyone got a more accurate take on what this means? I guess the whole 温馨提示 just means "notice" .
bodawei
October 15, 2010 at 12:49 AM
Just to clarify - this term 温馨提示 does not actually mean 'prompt'. (The dangers of over-analysing and looking at characters in isolation.)
It simply means 'notice' - but it has a friendly laid-back kind of tone, in contrast to something that might be headed 'Attention!'. This is an interesting aspect of the culture - that is, the friendly tone conveyed even though everyone is required to comply.
bababardwan
October 10, 2010 at 11:54 PM
hehe, yeah...the gentleness has an expiry date I guess..what next? a hot poke?
bodawei
October 10, 2010 at 11:20 PM
It doesn't translate easily to English. :)
Like a notice from the Tax Office ...
Gentle Prompt:
You owe us $18,000 - payment due immediately.
bodawei
October 10, 2010 at 10:57 PM
I think so, this often heads public notices - see photo elsewhere 'one small step forward, one large step for civilization')
Here's a bit of a vocab list (corrections welcome):
温馨提示 (notice)
社区 (community)
居民 (residents)
全国 (national)
人口普查 (census)
国情国力 (national features and resources)
调查 (survey)
住户 (householder)
性别 (gender)
年龄 (age)
民族 (nationality)
受教育程度 (education level)
行业 (industry)
职业 (occupation)
迁移 (change in address)
流动 (mobility)
社会保重 (community protection)
婚姻生育 (marriage & childbirth)
死亡 (morbidity)
住房情况 (housing situation)
bababardwan
October 10, 2010 at 09:01 PM
Am I reading this correctly? The census takers will also go into homes in Taiwan? No biggie then?
bodawei
October 15, 2010 at 12:42 AM
RJ
You are right - there is a special form for people from HK, Macau, Taiwan and foreigners, all who are living on the mainland. It has an English translation. Now I have to go and get the real Chinese form (because I'm curious about the questions being asked). I asked a friend 'what do I say when they ask "what do you want this for?" and he suggested I say 没外什么‘。But he says that they won't ask, because the forms are 免费. I just love the Chinese logic. :)
bodawei
October 10, 2010 at 11:05 PM
Hmm - ambiguous wording; you may be right, although that does not make sense for Hong Kong, Macau, does it. We would expect people from HK and Macau to be included in the Census as a matter of course.
bodawei
October 10, 2010 at 11:00 PM
That was in the press report - that is interesting. It would be in co-operation with Taiwan authorities I imagine. Can't see mainland clipboard-holders marching over there. :)
bodawei
October 10, 2010 at 04:05 PM
Notice about census circulated a couple of days ago:
温馨提示
[insert your street name]社区居民：
第六次全国人口普查工作已经启动，人口普查工作是一项重大的国情国力调查，人口普查主要调查人口和住户的基本情况，内容包括：性别，年龄，民族， 受教育程度，行业，职业，迁移，流动，社会保重， 婚姻生育，死亡，住房情况等。
[insert your street name]社区第六次全国人口普查工作定于2010年10月8日正式开始入户，届时普查员将会到每一户居民家中进行信息登记。 此次人口普查工作，属于单位家属区的由单位派普查员进行登记，有物业管理的小区由物管公司登记，没有物业管理的小区由社区据委会进行登记。 住户也可以带上户口册和相关证件到单位，物管公司或者据委会进行登记。
入户时间为：上午9：00时----晚上10：00时，望名位住户给予大力支持配合。
[insert your street name]社区据委会
2010年10月8日
tgif
November 21, 2010 at 04:48 AMbodawei,
Why do you list your country as Australia when you live in China?