Heathen's Greetings!

Hey Laodai, right back at you and Merry Xmas to everybody. I have learned there are Two things it is not wise to discuss in a public forum, religion and politics - and since Cpod I have added sex to my list. :-) Nothing good can come from it. So heres to focusuing on the things we have in common and best wishes to ALL. May tolerance and diversity prevail. -RJ

Aert Your second stanza needs a little context so we can truly appreciate Ol' Omar's rationalization for his love of wine: 44. And lately, by the Tavern Door agape, Came stealing through the Dusk an Angel Shape Bearing a Vessel on his Shoulder; and He bid me taste of it; and 'twas — the Grape! 45. The Grape that can with Logic absolute The Two-and-Seventy jarring Sects confute: The subtle Alchemest that in a Trice Life's leaden Metal into Gold transmute. 46. Why, be this Juice the growth of God, who dare Blaspheme the twisted tendril as Snare? A Blessing, we should use it, should we not? And if a Curse — why, then, Who set it there? Who, indeed.

Remember, it's not about what separates us we should be thinking about, but about what has actually happened in our world's history, and the hope, peace and love we all need... more than ever these days as it seems. Sadly "I belong to such-and-such religion, or non-belief" has separated us, and yet like you said, what the whole meaning of Jesus and Christmas is to seek and realize what we all need, what we all have in common as humankind. May Christmas this year not be about all the different views, but what we can do together, and what we are unable to do ourselves. :) Of course, you may not agree with me, but I want you to know Christmas is not a time I just think about those of Judeo-Christian traditions, but all people, from prisoners & their children I help send gifts to, to the homeless I serve turkey and gravy at the shelter, and even more importantly sometimes, to my crazily busy friends who hardly have time to slow down and see the need for the season. So, for what it's worth, Merry Christmas to fellow men and women everywhere! 2007年以前，虽然那时大部分的人不相信他会来，全世界的救主来了。就是世界的历史。虽然现在好多人还不尊他和他的消息，他还活着，还要给我们带来真的平安、真爱、当我们个人的救主。这个圣诞节，希望你能多考虑这最美丽的事情、最美丽的礼物。 Peace on Earth! ;)

Greetings to you Lao Dai, RJ, Jenny, John, Bazza, Henning, Changye, Kerou85, Goulniky, Amber, Clay, John B., Ken, Ambition, and to all, in all of our cultures, in all of our ways of knowing the wonder of this beautiful Earth. May understanding grow. May it be a great new year for all. Obitodd

您信什么教- what is your religion? 佛教 - Buddhism (Fo2 jiao4) 道教 - Taoism (Dao4 jiao4) 基督教 - Chritianity (Ji1 du1 jiao4) 天主教 - Catholicism (Tian2 zhu3 jiao4) 回教 - Muslim (Hui2 jiao4) 无神论者 - atheist -Wu2 shen2 lun4 zhe3) 不信教 - no religion (Bu2 xin4 jiao4) 睡觉 - sleep (Shui4 jiao4) :-) - what I do on Sunday morning.

睡觉教 (shuìjiàojiào)：Sleepism. Now that's a religion I could dream about. 睡觉徒 (shuìjiàotú)： Sleepist.

Thanks Obitodd, Im sure you meant to include Changye's dog, (otherwise you may hear about this from our friend) :-). Your words: "the wonder of this beautiful Earth" are so true. I am still awestruck by life itself and try to stay that way by not getting bogged down in the petty man made "troubles" we have. I think of the holidays as a time when we should all take a moment to remind ourselves of this. I think the major holidays in any culture serve this purpose. Here's to what is important. People.

Laodai, send me a donation and I will sign you up.

"Here's to what is important. People". ...and a good pinot noir.

The term "agnostic" has remained untranslated into Chinese so far. If all people were agnostics there would be fewer wars and killings. An agnostic is not an atheist, for the latter claim to know something. Best wishes to everyone!

Amen.

Changye's dog is definitely included.

agreed - good point that pinot. wine can be very important. Aert - I thought I just saw agnostic defined somewhere but cant find it now. How about wobuzhidaoism? I spent Chinese new year in SH two years ago and I was struck by how similar the general feeling, spirit, family togetherness, shopping, the new years eve tv extravaganza etc etc were to back home during the xmas new year holiday period. I experienced the "wishing tree" and watched an old fashioned puppet show in a box (along with some other small children). I got a taste of what it must be like to grow up in China but it left me wanting more. There is something wonderfully universal about the whole thing and its not based on religion. It was a wonderful experience and I want to do it again. Maybe this year.

I have a great dictionary at work that will have something listed for agnostic, I'm sure. I'd go in and retrieve it but that would break my vow not to go within 500 feet of work for the next two weeks. There are many things I love about the winter solstice holiday break: 2 weeks off from work communal meals with friends (and a little family, but not too much) sleeping in dionysian excess the general spirit of good will (when not debased with crass consumerism) cold weather and snow I've spent a couple of X-holidays in China. Beijing University to be exact. I enjoyed the international, multicultural feel to it all. Everyone sharing their traditional food, or their attempts to replicate them using local ingredients and hot plates. And yes, no religion required. I'm glad you included the little dog Obitodd; we're species-centric at our peril.

ah - found it: 不可知论 bu4ke3zhi1lun4 agnosticism also known as "know nothingism"

Merry Christmas to you all from a hobby heathen and part time agnostic! :) RJBerki, Rich, well said. We are a species that depends on clinging together. Helping each other and helping the seemingly weak is what makes us strong. You do not a religion to become convinced of that. Thanks obitoddkenobi for including me in your list. I do not dare to come up with names as there have been so many important ones this year here...

And so, 不可知论者 = agnostic. Now, how 'bout wicca and wiccan?

Laodai Ditto on all that winter holiday stuff,and double for the dionysian excess. :-)

For everybody's merry and peaceful Christmas, here are two stanzas from Omar Khayyām's Rubāyāt: XXVII Myself when young did eagerly frequent Doctor and Saint, and heard great argument About it and about; but evermore Came out by the same door where in I went. LIX The Grape that can with logic absolute The Two-and-Seventy jarring sects confute; The sovereign Alchemist that in a trice Life's leaden metal into Gold transmute; (translation Edward FitzGerald)

"Laodai, send me a donation and I will sign you up". Let me sleep on it.