Tone rules
pipsy
January 24, 2008, 03:53 PM posted in General DiscussionAs a newbie when I first started listening to the lessons and following the transcripts I initially thought that some of the transcripts had errors in them because what I was reading was sometimes different to what I was hearing regarding certain tones. Then I came across Tone rules! The third tone rule, the Bu tone rule, and now the first tone rule.
The very first newbie lesson (Basic greetings) begins with the following two lines which both employ using the third tone rule.
Nǐ hǎo ma?
Wǒ hěn hǎo , xiè xie.
As a suggestion, the Newbie transcripts could include something like:-
(3TR) Nǐ hǎo ma?
The (3TR) indicating the use of the third tone rule.
Similarily you could indicate (buTR) for a change of bu.
An explaination of (3TR) and (buTR) could be included in the Key Vocabulary of the transcript with maybe a link to the tone rule lesson appliccable.
Just an idea!
pipsy
January 25, 2008, 03:02 AMWhat I was trying to point out was that the very First lesson on C-Pod to anyone completely new ie lesson 001_A1 has the first two lines both containing tone rules to which there is no reference whatsoever. So thereford as as a complete NEWBIE it just goes to confuse right from the start !! I am just trying to suggest that there should be some indication in the transcript as to why it is that you say Nǐ hǎo ma? but do not pronounce it as it is written. (How are you?) ie not Ni3 hao3 ma? but Ni2 hao3 ma? Third tone rule applies. and in reply you should say Wǒ hěn hǎo (very well) ie not pronounce Wo3 hen3 hao3 but wo2 hen2 hao3 because the third tone rule applies. It might seem obvious to those that have been studying for a while. Not to complete beginners.
John
January 25, 2008, 05:31 AMPipsy, Your point is well taken, but we go to great efforts not to bog down the absolute newbie with grammar and technical details. We feel newbies should be focusing on the sounds of the words and using the language to communicate rather than "what tone is it." After soaking in the language for a while, the learner should be ready for more formal guidance on aspects such as tone rules, which is why we made the tone rules Elementary lessons.
xiaohu
January 27, 2008, 02:24 AMPipsy: John makes a good point, remember if you want to go the extra mile and take some initiative there are plenty of resources on this site that can explain about the tone change rules. If you hear wo3 hen3 hao3, pronouned as wo2 hen2 hao3, then you can alwys ask a question on the forums, "why do I hear it wo3 hen3 hao3 pronouned as two 2nd tones and then a 3rd tone?", you'll get the answer. Again, there is a certain method that the experts use to teach Chinese that have been concecrated by time. No professional teaching method will display "wó hén hǎo" and furthermore none of them that I have used will introduce the change of tones in the first few lessons because, just as John said, in the first few lessons you should be concentrating on the getting used to, and repliating the sounds of Chinese words. I also went through the same thing as you when I first started learning Chinese, but believe me, there IS a method to the madness.
xiaohu
January 24, 2008, 08:46 PMpipsy: Actually I don't think adding those types of keys in the transcripts would be a good idea because then they would start straying from the standard format that's used by all Texbooks and Mandarin educational institutions etc. worldwide, and it would start getting kind of chaotic. Besides there are only a few rules you have to remember regarding tone sandhi, it should only take a day to learn and will be like riding a bike, once you learn...you'll never forget!