Lesson suggestion for food, heath, likes and dislikes categories

Julie: I think that would be a very positive lesson. Because so many Chinese people drink and smoke, and while at dinner kind of have a habit of pressuring others who don't want to participate. A lesson on the language of politely declining to 抽烟 or 喝酒 would be helpful, as well as how to understand the role that Alcohol and Cigarettes play in Chinese society. For instance while here in America we give, CD's, DVD's, Clothes and electronics as gifts, Chinese people give Cigarettes (Yan1, 烟）and Alcohol （Bai2jiu3， 白酒） Lessons on how to be tactful and respectful in those situations and help our western minds better understand those situations and their cultural underpinnings would be great!

One of my preferred drinks these days is cold barley tea. Is barley tea available in most eating places? And how would I ask for it?

Hmm, an upper intermediate lesson isn't going to be ideal for a newbie, though the PDF might help. [reading...] Err, no, actually that lesson seems to be about boasting that one has the ability to out-drink someone, not mentioning non-drinkers, and if there was anything in the lesson discussion I couldn't find/translate it. Drats. I seem to recall this was also discussed on The Saturday Show but I don't remember which one. I've definitely heard how to say I don't (ever) drink (alcohol), and then forgotten it again like so much other good stuff.

If you don't want to drink you can just say 不要喝酒 [bù yào hē jiŭ].

There is definitely something somewhere about a phrase that means 'I will substitute tea for alcohol' Who remembers that?

I never told anyone I was substituting tea for alcohol, but it's an old trick nonetheless. (If you enjoy the act of walking, there can be disadvantages of being the only foreigner at a banquet.) julesong, I remember reading in one of the upper-intermediate drinking lessons that religion is a valid excuse. Nevertheless, with the exception of business (required), I've never felt "compelled" to drink.

The Chinese wedding customs lesson... http://chinesepod.com/lessons/chinese-wedding-customs/discussion ... has one expansion sentence with "我酒量不好" / "I have a poor tolerance for alcohol." That lesson also talks about how guests don't necessarily force the groom and bride to drink. I know they do often drink tea, but I can't find any example sentences describing that. Also possibly useful could be the allergies lesson: http://chinesepod.com/lessons/allergies/discussion

Oops, I see you mentioned allergies in the initial post. A couple of useful things I scrounged out of phrase books: 我不太想喝酒 / I don't feel like drinking. 給我一杯水就行了 / Just water will be fine. 不必招呼我 / Bùbì zhāohu wǒ Don't mind me. 隨便 / suíbiàn can also be used, if you don't want to keep up with the toasting.

AuntySue - thank you so much for remembering I'm at newbie level. I've found lessons on some of the things I need in other areas (mostly business) covered only in the upper levels, and it's been a bit frustrating knowing it'll be ages before I can get to them. There has got to be a way for me to learn some of those concepts but at newbie levels... LostInAsia - thanks for the direction to the wedding customs. Unfortunately, I'm a newbie and have basic (not free) access, so can't get to the expansions. Ah well. 給我一杯水就行了 / Just water will be fine. That one will be really helpful! Can someone help me with the pinyin for it?

xiaohu - thank you so much for you comments! You've said exactly what I am referring to: "Lessons on how to be tactful and respectful in those situations and help our western minds better understand those situations and their cultural underpinnings would be great!" It's not just the being able to say that I need tea or water that's important. It's knowing how/what to respond if it goes past that, and how to it explain politely. And, of course, it would be a valuable lesson for those who do drink, as well, to widen understanding in Mandarin of why there are those who not. And please, is there a way it can be newbie or elementary level? *puppydogeyes* It could be handled in two newbie lessons, if the necessary words/concepts cannot be handled in one.

I am sure there are some lessons on this. I had a quick look and I found this http://chinesepod.com/lessons/drinking-ability/discussion which does have some discussion on this subject.

(Some of the above gave me pause in a different direction... would it be possible that some of the upper-elementary, intermediate, and lower advanced lessons also be done in related, multiple newbie/elementary lessons? In looking for business-related topics, I've found that there are few newbie lessons that will help me get past the "hello, how are you" level of conversation. But if the concepts and vocabulary could be broken down in a newbie lesson like way and handled in more than one session, they might not necessarily be something lower level folks - yes, like me - would find unmanageable. And I, for one, would certainly appreciate having them! I'm sure there would be others who would be grateful, as well.)

tvan says: "julesong, I remember reading in one of the upper-intermediate drinking lessons that religion is a valid excuse. Nevertheless, with the exception of business (required), I've never felt 'compelled' to drink." Ah, there's the rub. *wry smile* Some of this kind of thing needs to be handled in the lower level lessons, too. And there's also the "required" business drinking. Most of the business lessons are upper level, beyond my reach. Business is one of my primary reasons for learning Mandarin, beyond personal growth, and I can only learn so fast, eh? I've been going at it for, hmm, 3-4 weeks now, about 3 podcasts a day and going over each 3-4 times apiece both with and without the PDFs (can't go over the PDFs while driving, after all, and keep my eyes on the road). ;) Then also reviewing prior lessons to keep those fresh, as well. I'm probably spending 2.5 hrs a day on it all, on weekdays, and I think I'm coming along okay. Anyhow, back to the "required" drinking. There's got to be a way for those who cannot drink for medical reasons to deal with that, too...

Some of the pinyin for you: 我不太想喝酒 / I don't feel like drinking. wǒ bù tài xiǎng hē jiǔ 給我一杯水就行了 / Just water will be fine. gěi wǒ yī bēi shuǐ jiù xíng le (Of course, you can easily sub in 紅茶 / hóngchá or 可樂 / kělè / coke if you want) 我酒量不好 / I have a poor tolerance for alcohol. wǒ jiǔ liáng bù hǎo (by the way, there isn't much else that'd help you for this situation within that lesson) A useful tool to convert to pinyin: http://www.pin1yin1.com/ (Although sometimes it messes up with the multi-pron characters... for example, it gave me 行 above as háng, when in this sentence it should be xíng) Oh, and seconding or thirding or fourthing what others have said above... polite refusals would be a great topic. Sometimes in more rural areas I'll get old guys running up and trying to give me a cigarette--what the heck can I tell them?! The drinking issue can be a pain--to be honest, I kind of avoid going out with Taiwanese men my own age (thirtysomething) because too often it leads to the sort of drinking that I haven't really enjoyed since my mid-twenties. And it's so, er, gendered? - men are drinking, while most of the women are under 25, wearing short skirts, and serving. Often in a tight & revealing vinyl/ leather Corona or Heineken dress. (Once I ran into a student of mine doing that as a part-time job... AAAWWWKWAAAARRRRD!!!!) Refusing a drink isn't usually difficult--the hard part is everyone else gets wasted and noisy. A big smile, repeated 對不起 (duìbuqǐ), and rubbing your stomach or head with a grimace will work wonders. But then again, I don't have to worry about doing business or the associated connections and face. Has this been covered in a Dear Amber? I'd love to hear how foreign women have dealt with issues like this.

Julessong, my comment on "required drinking" reflects both my age (51) and my gender. When I first graduated, women were just entering the workforce in the U.S. and nonexistent in China/Japan/Taiwan at the professional level. Thus business entertainment involved male-oriented activities. However, I have noticed that as women become more prominent, and as some asian cultures become more health-conscious, there is a definite shift in what constitutes "business entertainment" (e.g. you don't take your female business partner to a hostess bar ala LostInAsia's comment above). Still, when all is said and done, drinking is a big part of Asian business entertainment for men, and it hurts if you don't go along. How much that applies to women? I don't know.

It seems there is also a focus on the bounty of Chinesepod's teachings outside the US. :) Is that part of CPs stated mission? I haven't seen or heard it stated anywhere - has it been? My business application of Mandarin will be *inside* the US with Mandarin speakers, rather than in China. I don't yet know the length of time they will have been here in the US. But the social environment of the Chinese community in the US - although it will be assuredly different - may not be *so* much different that not drinking with business partners might hurt the deal. It's a sticky problem, and why I'm hoping that CP can come to my aid with lessons about handling it delicately and professionally. :)

Thanks, LostInAsian and Tvan! LostInAsia, very glad to know I'm not alone in being interested in the coverage of this topic. I was starting to feel a bit of a party pooper. ;)

Julesong, I have been to many business dinners in China and most of the women dont drink. Chinese women. It has never been a problem. As a man I have been gently prodded to drink, but polite refusal works. The doctor wont let me drink will also work. Or you can outdrink them and then they back off :-). I really dont think you are going to offend anybody. Especially if you are talking about in the US. -RJ

Thanks RJBerki - in years past, I could've joined them long into the night, but now it's definitely "the doctor won't let me drink." And there's an update - my mom and I are planning a trip to China for 2009! We'll be with a tour, because she's in her mid-70s, but I'm definitely going to fit in a trip to CP Headquarters. :) So now I have even more reason to cram as much Mandarin as I can into my brain, yay!

(Interesting. I'm finding myself making more English typos these days, since beginning Mandarin. Little pieces of sentence structure in English getting swapped around. *chuckle* I guess I need to copy edit my posts before hitting that "add comment" button...)