Lesson explaining the 是。 。 。 的 construction
runei
May 15, 2008, 06:06 PM posted in General DiscussionAnybody know about such a lesson? preferably in the elementary section?
Or maybe somewhere on the web where it is explained to me like I was 5 years old and kinda' stupid ^_^
Cheers
儒内
runei
June 19, 2008, 09:45 AMThank you so muck for the help ^_^
Sorry it took me so long to reply, I've been busy with my exams
Rune
frances
May 15, 2008, 09:26 PMThat seems like it would be a good qingwen topic. The construction has come up in a bunch of lessons, though can't get thorough explanation in that forum. What I know: For these two sentences 我昨天去了。 Wŏ zuótiān qù le. 我是昨天去的。Wŏ shì zuótiān qù de. The meaning is essentially the same, but in the first I'm telling that I went, and when. In the second sentence it is already understood that I went and just I'm telling you when. The second sentence would be a good answer to the question: 你是什麻時候去的？Nĭ shì shénme shíhou qù de?
frances
May 15, 2008, 09:31 PMBoran, that's so funny! I almost used 來 as my example too and then switched it to create a greater probability that the fact could be in doubt. Finishing my response and seeing yours there would have been even funnier if I had left it that way! I'll have to check out your resource links.
boran
May 15, 2008, 09:45 PMFrances, Yeah, I hate when that happens. At least, we didn't contradict each other - whew, that always causes confusion and this stuff is confusing enough. You're right though, the differences between these patterns become more evident when answering a question. The OpenCourseWare site is great. It has lots of courses, everything from Chinese to Astrophysics, all free!
henning
May 16, 2008, 05:12 AMHi runei, I haven't worked through all Elementry-lessons yet, but there is a recent one in which the construction is briefly explained:
| In: B0866 | the 是。。。的-pattern for marking past tense and enhancing clarity (here: 你是什么时候去的？) |
| pattern | In: C0552 | 是。。。的: 我是五星公司的。 |
| 的 | In: C0557 | 的 vs. 了 and 是。。。的 with an omission of 是 (here: 你在哪里看到她的) |
| 是。。。的 | In: C0731 | sentences ending with 的 as a result from a 是-的-construction with an omitted 是 - used for indicating past tense (multiple examples) |
| In: C0797 | adding emphasis with the 是。。。的-patter (here in: 你是怎么知道的？) |
| In: C0826 | 是。。。的 without 的 (here: 哪儿买的？and 我自己织的) |
| In: C0837 | the 是。。。的-pattern for emphasis (here: 我是被冤枉的) |
| In: C0874 | the 是。。。的-pattern for marking and emphasizing an explanation (here: 是介绍芝加哥的) |
boran
May 15, 2008, 09:17 PMThere needs to be a Qing Wen about the 是...的 pattern. I see Amber answering questions about this in the comments all the time (including my own question!). Particularly confusing is that the "是" is optional when speaking so your mind doesn't automatically pick up on the pattern when you hear it. Essentially, the 是...的 pattern and 了are mutually exclusive, each used to describe a completed action. 了emphaiszies the action while 是...的 emphasizes the consequences or circumstances of the action. For example: 他是昨天来的. Tā shì zuótiān lái de. 他昨天来了. Tā zuótiān lái le. Both sentences translate to "He came yesterday." The first one emphasized "when he came" and the second one emphasized "whether he came or not". In English, we accomplish the same difference by placing spoken emphasis on "came" or "yesterday". Take a look at MIT's OpenCourseWare. They have four semesters of Chinese courses online including their reading materials which contain a lot of grammar points. In particular, the 是...的 pattern is described in Chinese 102 section 6.8 - it gives lots of examples.
runei
May 18, 2008, 09:17 AMThank you so much for all the replies c'',)
mandomikey
May 18, 2008, 03:52 PMFollowing up on Boran's, Frances, and Henning's fine examples, I'll add that my understanding is to employ the是...的 bookend when responding to a specific "wh" question in the past tense such as "who" "what" "where" when" or "why", requiring an answer other than yes/no.... yes/no questions requires the 了. When/where/why did you buy that hat? Use 是...的 Did you buy that hat? Use 了 If you're open to studying examples outside of CPod, the Pimsleur Mandarin series really hammers this construction home.
runei
May 19, 2008, 09:25 PMthx Mandomikey can you also use a shi..de answer to the question "what did you buy"? Does it have to be an answer to something or can I use it if I wan't to emphasise that I did something last monday and i'm not sure if the person I'm talking to gets that? Do you know which levels & lessons in Pimsluer, there are so many :-S
mandomikey
May 22, 2008, 02:47 PMRunei: There are 3 levels in Pimsleur, each containing 30 lessons. It's been awhile since I've completed them, but I'll take a stab and say the "shi...de" construction begins early in the 2nd level and is drilled all the way through the end of the 3rd. Even without knowing your experience level with Mandarin, I reccomend it as a good supplement for acquiring common grammatical patterns, though they're not heavy on a lot of new vocabulary. ChinesePod contiinues to be my preferred source for expanding vocabulary and picking up many countless phrases, while Pimsleur helped me make sense of grammar and syntax structure. (I hope no-one misinterprets this as a plug for a competitor) Affirmative to both your questions (I think!). ~Mikey
wolson
May 16, 2008, 08:14 PMHenning, very nice! I was wondering how one could search Chinese Pod for this construction.
mayor_bombolini
May 15, 2008, 09:16 PMGreat idea for a "Qing Wen"!!!