The relevance of 古文?

There is some relevance in learning chengyu:

My first experience with a chengyu outside of a Chinese learning session was in a meeting with my graduate students, several of which are Chinese. Our project has had a history of "hurry up and wait" which has been upsetting to both my students and me.

At this particular point in time, I had to tell my students that we had to stop work because the US Congress failed to pass the FY07 budget which contained our funding on a competitive grant. (The work has since been started again.)

At the time the Chinese students were talking and I ask them what they had said: 半途而废(ban4 tu2 er2 fei2). Normally, I understand a good part of what they say to each other but I couldn't figure this out until one of them explained it to me.

Moral of the story: chengyu is a part of the daily Chinese language.

Therefore, if you expect to understand Chinese at a high level, you must also be able to understand chengyu. 

I do not feel that chengyu is essential if all you want to do is to be able to ask directions in Chinese, say at the Newbie or Elementary level; yet I do feel chengyu should enter at least at the Elementary level as it is naturally used to express common thoughts.

I agree that Chengyu are core vocab.

But what about the value of really studying 古文?

I don't understand what makes it hard to undersand. Is it the context that does not imply the meaning? Is it the chunk of characters that confuses? I just thought they were proverbs so I have skipped over them until I was a little better at the basics. What made you need for them to explain to you the meaning?

I do remember one instance of not understanding an asian guy (can't remember if he was Chinese) who was basically saying "[There's] no risk [in this game]". That is, he was repeatedly saying "no risk" and it took me some time to realise what he meant by it. There was no monetary risk in playing D&D games, so what was the point? It was a genuine question he had because he didn't understand why we would sit there for hours playing it. So by understanding the culture, you understand the language more than just the words/sentences by themselves.

Hi henning,

I myself am a guy who is learning classical Chinese, bit by bit, every day, but if I were NOT a Japanese, I would never learn it UNTIL I become relatively proficient in modern Mandarin.

Otherwise, I would certainly be mixed up due to the difference in grammar and vocabulary between 文言 and 普通话, for example, 走 and 女 means “walk” and “woman” respectively in Mandarin, but “run” and “you” (though not always) in classical Chinese.

On the other hand, if you have knowledge about Japanese, it would be much easier for you to read 文言. Classical Chinese and Japanese have many things in common, in terms of syntax and vocabulary.

Anyway, 文言 is worth learning!

Henning, the value of learning 古文 is pretty dependent on your goals for learning Chinese. If you're goal is to absolutely own the language, then learning at least the fundamentals is pretty useful. Most Chinese, even the well educated, have no more than a cursory knowledge of 古文, so it's not going to come in handy every day. 

I found that while translating more "literary" essays (i.e., where the author wants to look smart), or reading 近代 novels (where classical constructions are more common), at least some knowledge of 古文 was helpful.

Around Christmas I bought and read through 解读论文, which takes each part of 论文 and provides a translation into modern Chinese and an explanation of the difficult bits. It's aimed at educated Chinese readers, so it's a bit tough going, but I learned a lot, both about 古文 (at least the 古文 in use during 孔子's time) and about modern Chinese (my "philosophy Chinese" was rather lacking before this).

All in all it was a good experience, and helped my overall reading level. It gave me insight into some of the less commonly seen constructions and how they work. Being able to read 孔子 in the original is a pretty cool feeling, too -- almost like the sense of history you get when you walk through an old building. I'd say go for it.

changye, johnb, auntie68,
thanks for your long and helpful replies.

light,
Not quite your ordinary proverb. It is your next playground. There are 2 lessons, 1 Intermediate, 1 Advanced, (and quite a few discussions) dedicated to the subject.
加油。

http://chinesepod.com/lessons/what-is-a-chengyu

http://chinesepod.com/lessons/%E6%88%90%E8%AF%AD%E4%BF%97%E8%AF%AD

Hi henning,

Where is the "antie68's long and helpful comment"?

changye,

arrived on another channel...

Here are some links I gathered so far: