第一回: Chunk 7
henning
July 16, 2008, 09:35 AM posted in General Discussion此回中凡用"梦"用"幻"等字,是提醒阅者眼目,亦是此书立意本旨.列位看官:你道此书从何而来?说起根由虽近荒唐,细按则深有趣味.待在下 将此 来历注明,方使阅者了然不惑.
My try:
In this chapter often words like „dream“ or „fantasy” etc. are used – readers be reminded that this is the very idea behind the conception of this book.
Ladies and gentlemen (reader): Do you know where this book comes from? Let’s mention that although the story may seem absurd, if you look at in more detail, in the depths there are yet interesting things to find. Please wait for me to clearly explain the origin of it, clarify it for the reader.
Breakdown:
[Need to know 在下is a humble form for I here…that really threw me off…]
In this chapter (此回中) often words like „dream“ or „fantasy/illusion“ etc. are used (用"梦"用"幻"等字)
Remind (提醒) the readers (阅者) eyes (眼目) also (亦) this the conception of this book (此书立意) is of that purpose (本旨)
Ladies and gentlemen (列位看官)
[看官-> functions like a 各位 here]
你道此书从何而来
Do you know (道) where this book (此书) comes from (从何而来)
说起根由虽近荒唐,
Mentioning (说起) the logic/reasoning/cause (根由)
although虽 is preposterous/absurd (荒唐)
细按则深有趣味
Looking in more detail (细按) however (则) in the deep there are (深有) interesting things (趣味)
待在下将此 来历注明,方使阅者了然不惑.
I (在下) – wait for (待): I will explain it’s origin (将此 来历注明)
make (方使) [it for] the reader (阅者) clear (了然 - clear不惑 – not confused)
changye
July 20, 2008, 03:46 AMHi henning,
方使～; In this case, 方 means '将' or '正在'.
你道此书从何而来; This 道 means 'say'.
henning
July 20, 2008, 05:33 AMHi changye,
first off all thanks for your contribitions. These corrections and additions are the reasons I do this...
On your 道-note: But how does "say" fit in this context?
"You say this book from where"???
Sigh! 道 becomes a more and more confusing little character - a 道 monk, 道 as in "know", 道 as in "way", 道 as in "arrive", 道 as in "say"...
道道道? Any others one should 道 of?
changye
July 20, 2008, 06:07 AMHi henning,
As far as I know, 道 usually doesn't mean 'know/arrive' even in old Chinese, though actually it has a lot of meanings. The original meaning of the word 知道 (know) should be 知 (know) + 道 (way). If you don't think 'say' is appropriate, how about 'ask' instead of 'say'?
你道此书从何而来? You might ask (say) where this book came from.
By the way, I don't think that a question mark '?' is used in the original text.
henning
July 20, 2008, 06:12 AMI wonder: Had they already imported any punctuation from us westerners the time 红楼梦 was written?
[And did they pay their licence fees for that?]
changye
July 20, 2008, 06:24 AMHi henning,
The following picture is the first page (影印, photomechanical printing) of 红楼梦原著. You can see neither question marks nor commas.
http://image.baidu.com/i?ct=503316480&z=0&tn=baiduimagedetail&word=%BA%EC%C2%A5%C3%CE+%D3%B0%D3%A1&in=14498&cl=2&cm=1&sc=0&lm=-1&pn=33&rn=1&di=844481616&ln=44
henning
July 20, 2008, 06:59 AMActually, many of the periods and commas in the online text seem to be a bit out of place...
But it is still easier to read then the original (which on the other hand looks a whole lot better).
changye
July 20, 2008, 07:46 AMHi henning,
Chinese classical literature published with punctuations is called '标点版' (punctuated version). I have a copy of 康熙字典 (标点版) printed in modern type. It's very easy to read, at least, visually.
As you said, those puncuations are actually a little out of place, but simplified characters in classical Chinese literature are already out of place to me. Anyway, punctuations are very helpful.
liansuo
July 16, 2008, 02:46 PMThank you, Henning, for continuing ... it is very encouraging and keeps me motivated to plod on, too!
From my own experience as a butcher of classics, I would say that I have found them to be patient victims, forgiving, and untiringly ready to teach. Perhaps they prefer a little ruffling to no interest at all! Of course, insiders and advanced readers may think this blasphemous. I am eagerly awaiting their input.
The 在下 bit is very helpful! Maybe in return you’ll accept the tentative offering of the alternative meaning of 方 as "just, just then" -- which helps me with the last line. 待 would be like 等, 方 like 才、the effect is an "as soon as, then" construction.