Korea = ?
maxiewawa
July 28, 2008, 01:07 PM posted in General DiscussionI've been seeing advertisements around Shanghai advertising lessons in 朝鲜语... and it's got me thinking about the differences between 朝鲜 and 韩国 if only linguistically.
朝鲜 is the ancient name for the Korean peninsula. In modern Chinese 朝鲜 is only used for to refer to the North side, the DPRK, the ROK is known as 韩国. In English, confusingly, we only have one word: Korea. We must qualify either North or South Korea.
So anyway, my question is about referring to Korea, Korean people etc. To say to any of my Korean friends 我在学朝鲜语 or to use 朝鲜 in any situation where 韩国 would do would probably elicit a giggle or at the very least a blank look; to ask a North Korean about 韩国语 韩国人 or anything similar would be very offensive, if what I've heard is any indicator.
So for a native English speaker it's very difficult to know which to use. It's one of those places where we have only one word (with a descriptor "North" or "South") where the Chinese have two.
I've always always talked about 韩国/韩语 when referring to Korean or anything to do with it, but seeing a few signs around advertising 朝鲜语 lessons has got me wondering.
Is 朝鲜语 something that only old people use? Or a political thing between communist countries? A typo?
changye
July 28, 2008, 02:36 PMHi maxiewawa,
What kimiik wrote above is right. This issue is very complicated politically, emotionally, and nationalistically, and therefore let me just tell you the following terminological facts (although not accurate) here in East Asia. They indicate how every term is generally called in these regions respectively. I really envy you guys because just using ‘Korea’ is very simple and neutral!
(A) Korean language
S. Korea… 韩国语
N. Korea… 朝鲜语
China… 朝鲜语 (韩国语 is often used recently to indicate Korean spoken in S. Korea. So 朝鲜语 usually indicates the languages spoken in N. Korea and China. There are about two million Korean Chinese in China.)
Japan… 朝鲜语 (in the academic world), 韩国语(S) / 朝鲜语(N, S)
(B) The Korean Peninsula
S. Korea… 韩半岛
N. Korea… 朝鲜半岛
China… 朝鲜半岛
Japan… 朝鲜半岛
(C) Korean people
S. Korea… 韩国人 (N. Koreans are referred to as 北韩人) or 韩民族
N. Korea… 朝鲜人 (S. Koreans are referred to as 南朝鲜人) or 朝鲜民族
China… 朝鲜人 (Korean), 北朝鲜人 (N. Korea), 韩国人/南朝鲜人 (S. Korean), 朝鲜族 (Korean-Chinese in China)
Japan… 韩国人,朝鲜人 (S. Korean), 朝鲜人 (N. Korean / Korean-Japanese)
(D) State
S. Korea… 韩国 (including N. Korea), 北韩 (N. Korea)
N. Korea… 朝鲜 (including S. Korea), 南朝鲜 (S. Korea)
China… 南朝鲜/韩国 (S. Korea), 北朝鲜 (N. Korea)
Japan… 韩国 (S. Korea), 北朝鲜 (N. Korea), 朝鲜 （Korea）
changye
July 28, 2008, 09:05 PMCorrection.
(D) State
China… 韩国/南朝鲜/南韩 (S. Korea), 朝鲜/北朝鲜/北韩 (N. Korea)
Japan… 韩国 (S. Korea), 北朝鲜/朝鲜 (N. Korea), 朝鲜 （Korea）
maxiewawa
July 29, 2008, 12:31 AMThanks for the comprehensive answer!
Yes we're lucky to just say "Korea" in English! Like I said, In China up until now I've never heard 朝鲜 mentioned at all where 韩 would do. It's interesting to see all the differences.
changye
July 29, 2008, 03:10 AMHi maxiewawa,
Linguistically (and exactly) speaking, 韩国语 is the largest dialect in Korean language, and it IS the language you are now studying with that Korean-learning podcast. And of course, it would be highly recommended to consciously use the word 韩国语 when you are speaking with people from South Korea.
In China, 朝鲜语 has been most commonly used when people generally refer to Korean language, 韩国语 included, because the PRC has traditioanlly regarded North Korea (朝鲜) as a friend country, and China also has the Korean ethnic minority group called ‘朝鲜族’ mainly in its north-east region.
On the other hand, with the increasing number of South Korean people working and studying in China (and vice verse) and the deepening economic relationship between the two countries, the word 韩国语 has also been more frequently used recently to exclusively mention the dialect spoken in South Korea.
The dialects spoken by Korean-Chinese and North Korean are both called 朝鲜语. They very much resemble each other, except that one used in China have been affected by modern Chinese vocabulary, and one in North Korea have been somewhat influenced by Russian words. There are few borrowed words from English in both of them.
As opposed to them, 韩国语 contains numerous imported words from English, just like Japanese, which generates some difficulties in communication between South Korean and North Korean/Korean-Chinese people. The pronunciation and orthography of 韩国语 are also slightly different from those of 朝鲜语. This is just an outline.
changye
July 30, 2008, 11:16 AMHi kimiik,
In the Wikipedia article, the situation in Taiwan, Hong Kong, Vietnam etc. were completely new to me, which I thank you. I was a little suprised to know that Taiwanese people commonly refer to Korean language and North Korea as 韩国语 and 北韩 respectively, in a sense Taiwan saves South Korea's face, even though I hear that ironically South Korea generally shows indifference to the Taiwan issue.
kimiik
July 28, 2008, 01:30 PMI thought using 朝鲜 in Chinese was like using Korea in english (or Corée in french). Korea is not a country but a territory on the globe ... like America (oops bad example).
In mainland chinese 北朝鲜 is North Korea.