The Incredible Shrinking Candy Bar
mark
July 30, 2008, 04:27 AM posted in General DiscussionI came of age in the 70's. At that time we suffered the twin scurges of high inflation and a sluggish economy. Candy bars were 10 cents at the beginning of the decade and 50 cents at the end, but in between price hikes, the contents got smaller; a different kind of price hike. It seems we are entering similar times now. I hear of shrinking cerial boxes, and such like.
I'm not sure what economic forces are opperating on CPOD now, but I feel like my diet of content has been reduced without a nominal change in the price. I had become used to one I, one UI and one advanced lesson per week, but the new plan of five lessons per week makes this impossible. In the last week or two the lessons at any given level have seemed much simpler than previous lessons at the same level; less new vocabulary and not a long.
One of the things that I like about CPOD is that it has always seemed to allow me to grow my skills as much as I am able. Most Chinese study materials that I've found just offer the opportunity to learn the equivalent of a couple years of college. It's hard to get from there to truely fluent, but until now I have felt that CPOD offered me that hope. For a while I can use old advanced lessons, but then what? 我感觉绝望了。
Ok, enough complaining. I have a request. Could you please consider starting a series that is weekly and provides both a recording of a native speaker and transcript of a couple pages of adult level reading material? I think it would not be expensive to produce and would give those of us in the no man's land between fluent and intermediate a rung to the next level.
bryan
August 18, 2008, 12:20 AMThis is great news, John. Thanks to mark,auntie68,rjberki and all of you other users out there who help provide the input needed for CPod to continually improve.
kimiik
July 30, 2008, 08:57 AMSorry Auntie and Mark, I admit that my last answer was a bit blunt and unconsidered.
As a basic subscriber, my expectations and commitment here may be lower than yours.
auntie68
July 30, 2008, 09:43 AMKimiik, thanks for the kind post, but I was far blunter than you were. If any apologies are due, I owe them to you, for snapping at you/ anybody/ everybody.
Actually, I have never been more than a basic subscriber. I've been -- maybe rightly -- hassled by other users for being cheaper than somebody's cheap grandmother in Vitebsk (*so sorry, my own grandmother was extraordinarily generous to me, but I can't apologize for that, only thank her, and try to spend her legacy like a decent human being), on account of my willingness to complain about a mere USD$60 (no, $69!) worth of subscription.
In any case, my perceived "speaking rights" will end in a matter of months, because I have been trying to stretch my Chinese by referring only to the free "Chinese-only" transcripts delivered with the free MP3s. So far, it's manageable. And that additional discipline/ effort is not bad for my Mandarin acquisition. So if I can help it, I won't be renewing my sub when it expires in December.
I think you can look forward to a lower volume of complaints from me after I become a free subscriber, it's only fair.
RJ
July 30, 2008, 09:50 AMManagement's job is to every day find some screw to tighten that squeezes more blood from the population. Only when they are sure it will backfire by negatively impacting that same blood supply will they reconsider.
mark
July 31, 2008, 02:49 AMI calculate that I'm getting about 25% the content that I paid for when I last subscribed (fewer lessons that are at a level that challenges me, and less content per lesson).
I respectively request that CPOD consider my perspective and what form of redress might be appropriate. I think creative and energetic people, such as CPOD staff seem to be, can come up with a solution that doesn't bust the budget.
BTW, I do have a collection of Chinese DVDs. The problem is that the （汉字）subtitles go by too fast for me to study。
However, there is a lot of energy that goes into the newbie and ele lessons productions that I don't really need. For example, I was perfectly happy with Jenny reading rather than acting a dialog, and while the vocabulary in the pdf is helpful, I'd be happy with just a recording and a machine readable transcript.
John
July 31, 2008, 04:56 AMMark,
I hear you. I've discussed your concerns with upper management, and we've made some decisions that I think you'll like. Let me address the issues one by one.
1. After looking at it from your perspective, I agree that the reduction is too drastic. The truth is that there are already enough Newbie lessons to move to the next level, and arguably enough Elementary lessons, but not enough of the higher levels. So you're right, and I'm making changes.
I'm tweaking the schedule so that there will be one Intermediate and one Upper Intermediate every week. There will be 3 Advanced lessons every 4 weeks, with Advanced Media replacing Advanced every 4th week.
2. Shorter lessons are not a permanent change. They're part of ongoing experimentation on making the lessons better. We have gotten requests for shorter lessons, and longer does not always mean better. This change is not at all related to the cutback on weekly lesson production.
Like I said, the experiment with shorter lessons is not permanent, and there are longer lessons coming out in the future.
3. You asked: "Could you please consider starting a series that is weekly and provides both a recording of a native speaker and transcript of a couple pages of adult level reading material?"
This sounds a lot like our Advanced Media lessons. If you could explain a bit more what exactly you feel you need, we can consider it.
4. You said: "...there is a lot of energy that goes into the newbie and ele lessons productions that I don't really need. For example, I was perfectly happy with Jenny reading rather than acting a dialog, and while the vocabulary in the pdf is helpful, I'd be happy with just a recording and a machine readable transcript."
We're committed to making the best dialogues and lessons out there. So we're not going to make cutbacks in lesson quality. The main reason we reduced total output is to raise quality. And that means better Intermediate, Upper Intermediate, Advanced, and Advanced Media lessons as well.
Changes to the publication schedule will probably take about 2 weeks to go into effect.
auntie68
July 30, 2008, 07:19 AMHi kimiik, I won't presume to speak for Mark (or anybody else here), but the frustration which I feel comes from realizing that the CPOD "package" which I had signed up for, and paid for (with my eyes open all the time), is being turned into something less.
Maybe not for those happy newbies, but definitely a disappointment for me. I spent an entire year on the transition to "Advanced", in good faith, and suddenly now the lesson schedule won't have as many "Advanced" lessons to consolidate my hard-earned skills, which are far from solid. Telling me that I ought to be getting my Mandarin learning elsewhere is simply insulting. That's not the line CPOD was taking when I was gritting my teeth and relying upon my trust in their assurances that the transition would happen. And it did. But suddenly the CPOD promise is different... the package seems smaller.
Don't anybody dare to tell me that there are other resources out there. I gritted my teeth and started using a Chinese-only dictionary. I even started helping a family friend with her Mandarin homework, even though it means 2 - 3 hours of lesson prep each week for me, because I want to improve. And I am studying written Cantonese and beginning to explore Classical Chinese. Please don't ANYBODY imply that I'm being lazy or narrow or lacking motivation or imagination or whatever...
How would you feel, I wonder, if you went on to amazon.com and bought a well-known books + CDs package covering some "Intermediate - Advanced" level, only to discover that the latest edition which is actually delivered to me is 75% Intermediate and perhaps 25% Upper-Intermediate (compared objectively with the previous edition)?
And btw, is it really helpful in any way to try to "reason" with grumpy people like me by reminding me that I shouldn't have any problems with a dialled-down "Upper Intermediate/ Advanced" package because I ought to be grateful to newbies because they are subsidizing ME?
To my mind, this is pretty disrespectful to Newbies. It -- at worse implies that they are some kind of cash cow. I don't think that anybody who searches the threads will be able to find a SINGLE post by me where I disrespected any newbies. But this is so, so wrong.
John
July 31, 2008, 05:41 AMThanks a lot, auntie68.
Oh, to follow up my comment above, I've already reorganized the publication schedule. The last time you'll see two Newbies in one week will be Friday, August 15th (about two weeks from now), after which we'll be adhering strictly to the schedule I outlined above.
lostinasia
July 31, 2008, 05:43 AMThat is a fantastic development and great news. Thanks!
mark
July 31, 2008, 06:22 AMJohn, thank you for your response. I look forward to the changes you mentioned.
You asked me to explain. Some of my comments. In regard to recording + transcript, only some media lessons have a transcript. For the ones that don't, if I don't under stand something, I'm up a creek without a paddle.
In regard to not needing some of the things that make lower level lessons good lessons, I was partly just offering suggestions for compromise, and partly observing that I don't need a lot of sound effects, clever jokes, etc. to make Chinese fun and interesting. It is intrinsically fun and interesting for me already. I suspect others that have studied for a while might feel the same way.
In any case, I will trust your judgement. Thanks again for your response.
RJ
July 31, 2008, 10:01 AMJohn,
Great answer. I think you are doing the right thing. I look forward to the changes.
matthiask
July 31, 2008, 11:28 AMAs one of the newbies who is transiting towards higher levels, I welcome the changes as well. At the moment I subscribe to newbie, elli, and intermediate to get my cpod fix. I noticed and appreciate the reoccuring vocabulary in different context. I once heard that the brain works with new vocabulary like a glas of beans. For every time, you hear or use a vocab, you get one bean in the jar. If the jar is full, the vocab is in your brain. With advancing in level, the glas becomes smaller.
baillies
July 31, 2008, 12:09 PMhurray! this sounds perfect, thankyou John and the cpod team. I feel that the most important thing for Newbies is for all of the old newbies to be improved to the current std so that we don't have to read the frustrated user comments. 加油
auntie68
July 31, 2008, 05:01 AMHi. Thanks John, your response was addressed to Mark's concern, but it does address what was troubling me too. So thanks.
It was faith in you guys that got me through my painful transition to (your) "Advanced", so I'll remind myself to keep trusting you. Good luck with the changes. If anybody can do it, CPOD can.
kimiik
July 30, 2008, 07:00 AMThere're millions of chinese DVD out there with interesting content between fluent level and intermediate level. Most DVD will give you the transcript (subtitle). Cpod can concentrate advance and media lessons on some interesting cultural subjects needing more explanations.