第一回: Chunk 20

Hi henning,

Since there is no lesson today, reading the 红楼梦 thread is a very good pastime for me. Keep posting!

若许(these, those, 如许, 如此) 年(years)

此(this)系(= 是, is) 身前身后事 (entire life, from womb to tomb)
The usage of 系 (是) is important in reading old Chinese. You can see the same usage in modern Cantonese, for example, 我係(= 系)学生(I’m a student). You will come across the 系 again in this section (第一回).

地舆 (land, region) 邦国 (state) 
For the record, 地舆图 means “atlas”, and 吴邦国 is a current member of 中央政治局常委 (standing committee) of the PRC.

却反 (but , yet) = 倒，反，却
As to this kind of “a little cumbersome to translate, but frequently used” adverbs, I think just translating as “but, yet” would be enough. There is not much significance in them, anyway.

或(= 又) 可(worth, very, good for) 适趣解闷

Sensei -- thank you for your remembering my question.  Yes, Japanese is difficult and if there is no one to talk it to, the incentive is too small for a small mind like mine.  And the irresistible magic of the kanji -- straight, undiluted -- that is why I ended up where we are.  

P/S.

> 若许(these, those, 如许, 如此) 年(years)

On second thought, my above explanation is wrong. 若许年 should be translated as 若干年 (a certain number of years) in modern Chinese. On the other hand, there is the word 若许 (= 如此) listed in my dictionaries, but in this case it is not a proper translation.

Watching you champions shine and sparkle here is my idea of Chinese Olympics!  Thank you, I am learning a lot.

若 seems to be an interesting word.  I have always wondered by which of its different aspects it managed to become the 字 for "young" in Japanese.  Actually it seems so far-fetched that I worry about being totally mistaken.  

:(  Obviously a few beer already have a huge impact on my interpretation 能力: the next chunk turned into total gibberish. Will need to try again, tomorrow.

Thanks to derek for keeping the flame burning. It is very satisfying getting up in the morning to already find new fodder. :)

I try to contribute two chunks myself this weekend. Let's keep the pace up.

Henning,

haha, I have tried drinking beer and translating chinese at the same time, the results are not good. LOL

Changye,

you explanations are amazing, you are certainly a 大师.

Thanks to all of you, gentlemen, sober and spirited alike, for keeping the stone rolling.  The story of 若 is almost as fascinating though.  Just what I always wanted and could not find.  

liansuo,

haha, more spirited than sober I suspect, thanks for your support and encouragement.

Hi liansuo,

There is no work for it's Sunday, and of course there is nothing interesting on CCTV, so I have no choice but to drink, watch anime DVDs, walk a dog, and 徘徊在网上 here in a small city in China. As a result, I’m already fairly tipsy now. And I've just suddenly remembered that there is one thing I forgot to mention in my previous comment.

I think that you know the Japanese word “もしも (moshimo, if)”. This word is usually written only in Hiragana, but it can also be written using a Kanji, just like “若しも” (if). And in this case, the “若” naturally doesn’t mean “young”, but “如果 (if)”. When it comes to the usage and reading of Kanji, Japanese is a rather confusing language for foreigners.

Hi liansuo,

That’s a very good point. Comparing the usage of a Chinese character with the corresponding Japanese Kanji is very intriguing semantically and phonetically. The character 若 (ruo4) doesn’t mean “young” both in old and in modern Chinese, but interestingly, its primary definition in Japanese is “young”.

The reason is very simple. “若” (ruo4) obtained the meaning “young” in Japan just because it has the same pronunciation with “弱” (ruo4, weak, young). The Japanese Kanji “弱” primarily means “weak”, and I guess that’s why people bestowed the new meaning “young” to 若 to make their meanings clearer.

若 in Chinese mainly has three definitions, 像(be like, just like), 如果(if) and 你(you). The last usage, 你(you), is often seen in old written Chinese (文言), and more confusingly, there are several characters that mean “you” in classical Chinese, i.e. 尔 (er3), 汝 (ru3), 女 (nv3), 而 (er2) and 若 (ruo4).

Their pronunciations are different from each other in modern Chinese, but interestingly enough, in ancient Chinese, they all had the same consonant “n”, which suggests that they are all originated in one character or word that meant “you” a very long time ago. P/S. 若 and 弱 have the same reading in Japanese too.