王小波 －《黄金时代》Wang Xiaobo - The Golden Age (1)
bokane
December 19, 2007, 07:30 PM posted in General Discussion王小波 Wáng Xiǎobō was one of the most influential writers to come out of the 1990s in China. A voracious reader, Wang developed a writing style - and at times a worldview - reminiscent of Kurt Vonnegut or Murakami Haruki. He died of heart failure at a young age in 1997, but left behind several novels, of which the current work, 黄金时代 Huángjīn Shídài, was his favorite.
Here's the beginning of chapter one of that novella, along with some vocabulary notes that will hopefully prove helpful. This is one of my favorite works of modern fiction, and I hope that everybody else will enjoy working through this as much as I enjoyed reading it!
Please let me know if you have any questions or comments about the reading!
我二十一岁时，正在云南插队。陈清扬当时二十六岁，就在我插队的地方当医生。我在山下十四队，她在山上十五队。有一天她从山上下来，和我讨论她不是破鞋的问题。那时我还不大认识她，只能说有一点知道。她要讨论的事是这样的：虽然所有的人都说她是一个破鞋，但她以为自己不是的。因为破鞋偷汉，而她没有偷过汉。虽然她丈夫已经住了一年监狱，但她没有偷过汉。在此之前也未偷过汉。所以她简直不明白，人们为什么要说她是破鞋。如果我要安慰她，并不困难。我可以从逻辑上证明她不是破鞋。如果陈清扬是破鞋，即陈清扬偷汉，则起码有一个某人为其所偷。如今不能指出某人，所以陈清扬偷汉不能成立。但是我偏说，陈清扬就是破鞋，而且这一点毋庸置疑。
Chinese |
Pinyin |
English |
| 插队 | chāduì | Generally used of the Cultural Revolution; to join a production brigade, to be rusticated, or to otherwise be sent to the countryside. |
| 破鞋 | pòxié | “Broken shoes” -- an offensive term for a women who has “been tried on too many times.” If you must use this one, do so carefully. |
| 不大 | bú dà | Like 不太, but more colloquial. |
| 偷汉 | tōuhàn | A slang term, somewhat dated, used to refer to a woman who “steals” another woman’s husband or boyfriend.
|
| 简直 | jiǎnzhí | “Simply.” |
| 逻辑 | luóji | “Logic.” A phonetic loanword. |
| 从逻辑上证明 | cóng luóji shàng zhèngmíng | “Prove by logic.” |
| 即 | jí | “That is,” “i.e.” Here and below with 则, Wang is having fun by using very formal, pompous-sounding language.
|
| 如果陈清扬是破鞋，即陈清扬偷汉 | “If Chen Qingyang were a slut, id est a stealer of men.” |
|
| 则 | zé | Therefore; thus. Like 即, it is a more formal word used primarily in written language. |
| 起码 | qǐmǎ | “At least.” Similar to 至少 but more colloquial. Also used as a noun meaning “a minimum.” |
| 某, 某人 | mǒu, mǒurén | “A certain,” “A certain person.” Example: 王某 “A certain [Mr.] Wang.” Also 某某人: “So-and-so,” “Who’shisname,” etc. |
| 为其所偷 | wéi qí suǒ tōu | This is a formal construction used in writing and derived from classical Chinese. 为 here is functioning like 被 would in ordinary modern Mandarin -- as a passive marker. 其 is acting as a pronoun -- in this case, as a stand-in for Chen Qingyang. 所 is acting the way it often does in classical Chinese -- as something that turns whatever verb comes after it into a noun. 所偷 therefore is “what [was/is] stolen.”
Taken as a whole, these four characters 为其所偷 mean “who was stolen by her,” like 被他偷的东西 in modern spoken Mandarin. |
| 成立 | chénglì | Usually this means “to establish.” Here, as applied to a logical argument, it means “stand up” or “hold together.” |
| 偏 | piān | Something like “stubbornly.” As a general rule of thumb, whatever verb comes after 偏 (sometimes 偏偏) is not what had been wanted. |
| 毋庸置疑 | wúyōngzhìyí | A fixed expression: there need be no doubt. |
陈清扬找我证明她不是破鞋，起因是我找她打针。这事经过如下：农忙时队长不叫我犁田，而是叫我去插秧，这样我的腰就不能经常直立。认识我的人都知道，我的腰上有旧伤，而且我身高在一米九以上。如此插了一个月，我腰痛难忍，不打封闭就不能入睡。我们队医务室那一把针头镀层剥落，而且都有倒钩，经常把我腰上的肉钩下来。后来我的腰就像中了霰弹枪，伤痕久久不褪。就在这种情况下，我想起十五队的队医陈清扬是北京医学院毕业的大夫，对针头和勾针大概还能分清，所以我去找她看病。看完病回来，不到半个小时，她就追到我屋里来，要我证明她不是破鞋。
Chinese |
Pinyin |
English |
| 打针 | dǎzhēn | Give or get a shot |
| 农忙 | nóngmáng | The busy season in farming |
| 犁田 | lítián | Plowing fields |
| 插秧 | chāyāng | Planting rice seedlings |
| 旧伤 | jiùshāng | An old injury |
| 打封闭 | dǎ fēngbì | Get a shot to temporarily relieve pain or symptoms. |
| 镀 | dù | Plating or cladding |
| 剥落 | bōluò | To flake off or peel off |
| 倒钩 | dàogōu | Hooked barbs or jags |
| 霰弹 | sǎndàn | Buckshot, shrapnel. |
| 针头 | zhēntóu | Hypodermic needle |
| 勾针 | gōuzhēn | Darning needle |
runnerzj
January 24, 2008, 04:21 AMIn this paragraph he says that if he'd wanted to console her it wouldn't have been difficult, he could have used logic to prove that she wasn't a "broken shoes." Instead, he says (in summary) he specifically chose to say that she is without a doubt a "broken shoes": 但是我偏说，陈清扬就是破鞋，而且这一点毋庸置疑。Did he say this directly to her? And I am right in understanding that the action in the first paragraph follows/overlaps that in the second?
--- Did he say this directly to her? I cannot tell if he says this directly to her. In fact 但是我偏说，陈清扬就是破鞋 means but I just insist that she is a broken shoe without any reasonable analysis.
bokane
January 15, 2008, 02:50 AMmarcelbtt -- Sure! I haven't had the time to develop proper lessons lately, but I'm glad you got interested in the story. I'd be happy to answer any questions you might have.
marcelbdt
January 15, 2008, 07:05 PMGreat! Do you have any thoughts on the following?
About Chapter 1
I am reading a version I found at http://www.cnnovels.com/xdwx/wangxiaobo/hjsd/001.htm. I am not sure about its legal status, I would pay for a legal electronic version if I knew how to get it.
Inspired by 王二, I will try to be ridiculously methodical and number my problems.
Both 王二 and 陈清扬 are from 北京. Does this set them apart from the others, or would the entire group of people in the far Yunnan mountains be from the same city?
" 她魂不守舍,几乎连自己是谁都不知道了" I assume the meaning of the last is something like "she almost did not know any longer herself what she was ", but I'm not sure that I get the analysis right. Is 自己 subject for both 是谁 and 不知道? What about the 连? It makes sense if 连 applies to 不知道, but can it apply to 是谁? Another interpretation would be that the 她 from the previous sentence is still the subject of 知道, and what she does not even know is "自己是谁".
"脚上也多了一双拖鞋" What does "多" mean here?
"我就开始捉模" might be "I was getting ideas", but why does "捉模" mean that?
As 王二 is making the speach for the prosecution in the case of 破鞋, he says that people expect "就该面色黝黑". What does this mean? Dark from working on the fields in the sun, or something else?
"上面沾了碎纸和烟丝" What does "上面" do here? Does it mean "even worse.."? But, at this time, smoking was not so bad, was it?
"好像被猪八戒筑了两粑" I might not know the story here.. I do remember that 猪八戒's weapon of choice was a 耙, could this be a typo?
"假如我想证明她不是破鞋，就能证明她不是破鞋，那事情未免太容易了。" It seems he says that it would be easy to prove? I don't think so. What is going on?
"小鞋穿" The boss is making trouble.. but what's the point of 穿 here?
"二斤耗子" Two pounds of mice?? I did not know that mice come in pounds.. Or is "斤" a secret measure word for mice, so that we have two murdered mice here?
"何况队长要是能惹得起罗小四，也不会认准了是我" Does this mean that if the captain had suspected 罗小四, then 罗小四 would not have tried to blame 王二? I can't force the sentence to do quite that, but I can't make any other sense of it.
"天知道它跑到哪儿去了" I feel sorry for the dog... Oh well.
"我倒倾向于证明自己不无辜" Meaning what? That is would be easier to convince people of 2) then of 1) ? Pass him an 耳光.
The logic syllogisms are certainly parody, but parody of what? It would be beating a dead horse to make fun of classical chinese philosophy in 1990, wouldn't it?
I have the impression that he is setting the scene in the following way: Evidence for the defense has to be completely iron clad, but on the other side, incriminating hearsay is accepted at face value. If people say that you are guilty, then you are guilty. This would conceivably be in the spirit of 文革?
3.
bokane
January 18, 2008, 04:29 AMHi, marcelbtt -- a quick response, as I am technically supposed to be working now :p --
1 - I'm not sure here, actually -- my history is fairly weak. The groups sent down would have been comprised of 知青 ('educated youth,' sometimes translated as 'urblings') from the cities, but I don't know whether or not they would have all been from the same place. To be sure, they were set very much apart from the locals -- as becomes clear later in the novel.
2- 她魂不守舍,几乎连自己是谁都不知道了 -- this can be analyzed as 她 [魂不守舍, 几乎 [连自己是谁]都不知道了] -- that is, "She was utterly discombobulated, as if she didn't even know who she was anymore."
3 - 多了 is just "plus a" or "with another" -- that is, compared to the way she had looked before, she had put on a pair of sandals.
4 - This is a colloquial term in Beijing (or maybe just general northern) dialect -- I believe it's a typo here; I've seen it written as 琢磨, 捉摩 and 捉摸. As for why it should have this meaning -- who knows. Most likely it originated as a spoken word, and existing characters were selected to fit it later.
5 - 黑 here just means something like "tan and leathery" -- whether from working in the fields or just general age and decrepitude.
6 - 上面 here is referring to his upper lip. (At least I think so, going by memory -- i don't have the text in front of me at the moment)
7 - Yes, this is a typo for 耙.
8 - Yes, he's saying that it would be easy to do it -- but then goes on to note that his skills are limited mostly to simple sophistry.
9 - 穿 here is as in "he would issue me small shoes to wear."
10 - Nope -- 斤 is still a unit of weight, so he's talking about the total quantity of mice. I'm not sure how many this would work out to be, but the mice in my old apartment were small enough critters that I imagine two pounds would equate to a pretty considerable number of the varmints.
11 - This sentence works out to "Furthermore, if the captain had dared to piss off (惹得起 -- 惹 here meaning to provoke) Luo Xiaosi, then he [i.e., the captain] wouldn't have set his sights on me."
12 - No kidding. I remember being surprised that this was supposed to be a lighthearted little anecdote when I first read the book.
13 - "I rather inclined toward proving that we weren't innocent" -- i.e., that rather than trying to prove their innocence, they just embrace their guilt and have sex.
14 - This bears a slightly longer explanation than I can give at the moment, but the quick and easy answer is that Wang is having fun switching registers.
15 - I think so, yes.
marcelbdt
January 18, 2008, 10:17 AMThanks for your answer! It did clear things up!
If you don't mind spending your work time on helping me, I'll return with questions about chapter 2 next week.
bazza
January 20, 2008, 01:47 PMJust a suggestion, but it would be useful if the words explained below were highlighted in the paragraph itself.
relrel
January 20, 2008, 11:19 PMHi marcelbdt! I just read the first paragraph and am intrigued...=) I've been wanting to read some contemporary lit. I'd love to follow along with things, although I can't say I'll be ready for chapter 2 next week! (what about the rest of ch 1?) I'm also curious if there is much more usage of classical vocab and grammar in this book. Is it common for contemporary lit to have classical allusions? I guess it will be interesting to see it as it comes up. I've taken classical chinese so am somewhat familiar w/ the basics, but haven't seen it outside the context of old texts! thanks for all your work so far!
marcelbdt
January 21, 2008, 12:02 AMAnother batch of questions on chapter 2, taken from http://www.cnnovels.com/xdwx/wangxiaobo/hjsd/002.htm Some of these are sentences I cannot figure out at all, for others I offer a translation, but would like to check if others believe it. Any comments are great! And if anyone has any questions I can answer, I will do my best.
白色的风 - how can a wind be white?
按他的逻辑，我身上这个通红通红，直不愣登 - What does the "直不愣登" mean here?
就如我之存在本身 - "like my very existence"?
戽鱼 - I am not sure how about how the guy is doing his fishing, in particular the role of the 坝 in this. My guess is that he just keeps the fish he catches alive behind his dam?
两个累颇族孩子 - This could be the Jingpo nationality (景颇族), but why is there a 累 in there? Maybe 累颇 is a tribe of 景颇, or a similar but different people. Anyhow, it seems to me that we are in Déhóng Dǎizú Jǐngpōzú zìzhìzhōu (德宏傣族景颇族自治州) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DehongDaiandJingpoAutonomous_Prefecture. If this is true, about half the people living here are 汉, and the rest are mostly either 傣族 or 景颇族 (according to the wiki).
"烂泥横飞" Are the rascals throwing the mud at 王二? Why? If I were them, I would simply run away.
"若干砍草皮打的坝，哪个鸡巴敢说不牢？" I am guessing that 若干 can mean "So many", and the whole sentence "I have used so many turfs to build this dam, who the fuck dares say that it isn't strong?" But I might be wrong.
"鱼全泡了汤" Maybe 泡了汤 just means "got away"? On the other hand, there is a huge amount of water in this sentence, so perhaps 泡了汤 means "swam away"?
"你们姐夫舅子合伙搞我" This is quite confusing to me - I understand that 姐夫 is sisters husband, 舅子 is wife's brother. I assume that the speaker could have a sisters husband, but definitely not a wife's brother. And "wife's brother of sisters husband" sounds like an extremely complicated way of saying "me", which is probably not what he intends to say anyway. Maybe he is saying "You are ganging up against me like a man and his brother in law"?
"你走了我们给你赶牛哇？做你娘的美梦！” Another of those mystery sentences. "After you left, we will herd the cows? Make your mother's sweet dreams?!" I bet 5 RMB that there is some sense in this, but I did not find it..:)
"江湖 " are certain people... I am not sure exactly what kind. However, it seems that 王二 is borrowing the idea of "伟大友谊" from books like "水浒传". I haven't read it, but I believe that it is written for boys of all ages. Maybe "江湖 " is a term from that book?
"可一听说及时雨的大名" Is "及时雨" a name I should know?
"哪怕我是个卑鄙小人也不背叛" : "哪怕 ...也.." should be "Even if... still.."
"我的话也半真不假" Maybe this should be "我的话也半真半假"? If not, what is the function of the first "半"?
"所交到的朋友不过陈清扬等二三人而已" I suggest: "I could only offer friendship to 陈清扬 and at most two or three others."
"你知道自己在于什么吗？" Maybe "You do know what it's about, don't you?"
marcelbdt
January 21, 2008, 12:04 AMHi relrel!
It's great if you have comments or questions on chapter 1 - I think I understand most of it now, so I might be able to help you where you are stuck...
marcelbdt
January 15, 2008, 12:06 AMActually, after reading your lesson here, I got interested in the story, and downloaded it from baidu. I have read most of it by now, but there are many difficult points. Maybe it would help if I knew the political and geographical background better. Would you be interested in discussing it chapter for chapter?
runnerzj
January 22, 2008, 03:49 AM"你们姐夫舅子合伙搞我" This is quite confusing to me - I understand that 姐夫 is sisters husband, 舅子 is wife's brother. I assume that the speaker could have a sisters husband, but definitely not a wife's brother. And "wife's brother of sisters husband" sounds like an extremely complicated way of saying "me", which is probably not what he intends to say anyway. Maybe he is saying "You are ganging up against me like a man and his brother in law"?
Let me try to answer this question.
Literally, marcelbdt is right. 姐夫is sister's husband, 舅子 is wife's brother. But here it is not this way. 姐夫舅子 combined together indicates some people who have similar opinions are on one side against the other side together, especially refers to people who are relative. If try to explain this in Chinese, we can use 串通一气 to subsititute 姐夫舅子.
runnerzj
January 22, 2008, 04:04 AM"可一听说及时雨的大名" Is "及时雨" a name I should know?
---Yes, 及时雨 is the name of a important person in the novel 水浒传.
"哪怕我是个卑鄙小人也不背叛" : "哪怕 ...也.." should be "Even if... still.."
--- You are right.
"我的话也半真不假" Maybe this should be "我的话也半真半假"? If not, what is the function of the first "半"?
--- 半真不假: this phrase has not grammatical error. In fact, its meaning is the same as 半真半假。But it is usually more oral than the latter in cartain cases.
"所交到的朋友不过陈清扬等二三人而已" I suggest: "I could only offer friendship to 陈清扬 and at most two or three others."
--- basically it's right.
"你知道自己在于什么吗？" Maybe "You do know what it's about, don't you?"
--- Can't you be aware of what you are doing? In fact here it is used to criticize someone who does do well.
bokane
January 22, 2008, 10:19 AMWhoa -- I missed all the activity here. Welcome, relrel and runnerzj, and thanks for the help. A couple more quick notes, while I procrastinate:
直不愣登 -- 不愣登 here is actually just a meaningless sound. It's a term used in Beijing dialect (and elsewhere, I believe -- I've seen similar formulations from Shanghainese and Northeastern writers if memory serves) after an adjective to give the meaning "extremely" adj. Very colloquial and usually never written down -- hence the lack of good characters to write it. It's analogous to 里吧叽 in 傻里吧叽.
泡汤 -- this is a colloquial term meaning "to fall through" or "amount to nothing." Googling it turns up a nice usage in a Xinhua headline: 抽支烟36元打的费泡了汤乘客敬烟要拒绝 -- "One cigarette and your 36 yuan bus fare is totally wasted -- If other passengers offer you a cigarette, you have to turn them down."
你走了我们给你赶牛哇？做你娘的美梦！-- "[You think that if] you go, we'll herd the cows for you? You're motherfucking dreaming!" (你娘的 is exactly the same as 你妈的. Off the top of my head, I can only think of usages of 美梦 where it means a totally unrealistic dream.)
江湖 -- I hate translating this term. Off the top of my head: he's using it here alongside his other reference to Timely Rain from 'Outlaws of the Marshes,' and it's very much part of the "honor among thieves" ethos. I'll have to check Chapter 2 once I get a chance and make sure that he's not using it in some other context, since there are a number of different ways of using it.
Thanks for the suggestion on text highlighting, Bazza -- I should've though of that. Will correct, and I'll try to start putting up lessons more regularly starting tomorrow. I guess I'll continue to go on until the end of Chapter 1, after which I'm not sure if we should continue, since it's copyrighted material and all that. Do keep asking questions about later chapters, though -- at the very least, we can turn this into a nice reference for other foreign readers of the book.
relrel -- Wang's writing style is mostly very colloquial, but it does reflect his strong grounding in Chinese and foreign literature. There isn't an awful lot of Classical Chinese in this, but it does make the odd appearance. As for whether or not Classical Chinese shows up a lot in modern works: yes, depending on how broadly you define Classical Chinese. Usually it turns up as purple prose and botched allusions.
marcelbdt
January 22, 2008, 11:45 AMThanks for all help!
I feel that I am 抛砖引玉的..:)
Bokane, maybe you could make a dummy lesson "chapter three", so that we can post questions and comments on chapter three there? I intend to get there in a week or so. This lesson is getting pretty long.
klgardensong
January 23, 2008, 01:58 PMHello, all. It's great to find this group, and I'd love to join in on the discussion and weekly readings. (I've never really read Chinese literature - except in very small chunks in college, so this may be beyond me). I read through the only two paragraphs I found at the top of this discussion, and have a few questions about that text. It's really great to have the translations for individual words and occasionally whole sentences. THANK YOU!
It's clear that marcelbdt has read ahead (and maybe others?). Should we all be accessing the full novel, or will we go a chapter (or chunk) a week?
I can't imagine the two paragraphs above are all of Chapter 1 - but I do assume they're the beginning of the book, right? Is there text somewhere for the rest of Chapter 1 or for Chapter 2 on this site?
Questions about Paragraph 1 text:
1.则起码有一个某人为其所偷. I've only ever seen the construction 某一个人, and here it's 一个某人. Are they interchangeable or is there a difference in meaning?
- In this paragraph he says that if he'd wanted to console her it wouldn't have been difficult, he could have used logic to prove that she wasn't a "broken shoes." Instead, he says (in summary) he specifically chose to say that she is without a doubt a "broken shoes": 但是我偏说，陈清扬就是破鞋，而且这一点毋庸置疑。Did he say this directly to her? And I am right in understanding that the action in the first paragraph follows/overlaps that in the second?
Many thanks in advance.
Kathy
marcelbdt
January 23, 2008, 09:19 PMGreat! Another reader of chinese literature!!!
You can get the full text from the site http://www.cnnovels.com/xdwx/wangxiaobo/hjsd/001.htm, by cleverly replacing the 001 in the adress by appropriate chapter numbers.
This is "probably" not "entirely" legal, but I don't know how to get a legal electronic copy of the text. If it exists and someone hints me to where I can find it, I would certainly buy it.
As you say, there is overlapping in the two sections. It is descibed twice that 陈清扬 visits the narrator, whose name as we will find out is 王二. The story is in principle told in linear time: we follow the story as it happens. But it is also full of flash-backs and flash-forwards.
In my opinion the conclusion that 陈清扬就是破鞋 is a flash forward. If you read on, you will be enlightend, but you cannot understand it completely yet.
I am not the best person around here to answer your question about 某一个人 and 一个某人, but my gut feeling is that 一个某人 emphasises "one", so that the sentence means "at least one man whom she has stolen".
klgardensong
January 23, 2008, 10:21 PMMarcelbot,
Thanks for the warm welcome, helpful hints, and responses to my questions. I, too, would pay for a legal text if I knew where/how. Meanwhile, I've cut and pasted chapters 1-4 and will slowly being working my way through.
I've been away from Chinese for long enough to have lost most of my character recognition, which means A LOT of dictionary work for me. But the interpretive exchanges are great, and I hope the vocabulary lists will continue - they're a big help.
Thanks for getting this started, bokane!
More soon.
runnerzj
January 24, 2008, 04:13 AMHi, all.
Let me try to answer this.
I am not the best person around here to answer your question about 某一个人 and 一个某人, but my gut feeling is that 一个某人 emphasises "one", so that the sentence means "at least one man whom she has stolen".
Basically marcelbdt is right.
--- 某一个人 is a commom daily phrase, which emphasises there is someone unknown.
一个某人 is a very amusing way of expression, which might be gramatically wrong. But here Wang xiao'bo showed his humor by this means. It's exactly his unique writing style.Like marcelbdt said, 一个某人 emphasises "one", i.e. there does exist such people. Anyway, it always made me laugh whenever I read it.
runnerzj
January 22, 2008, 03:40 AMHi, marcelbdt did a wonderful work. It's so much fun to learn that there is a forum like this. I was once a fan of Wang xiaobo. His style is so special that it easily attracted my attention 10 years ago. Well, I think I can probably be of help if you meet any difficulty in reading this novel. Honestly, I myself have some difficulty as well, but mainly it is about the content, not the word.
marcelbdt
January 06, 2008, 04:53 PMMmm.. I wonder what will come out of this. What exactly does he mean when he says that the needles had barbs?..:) Only an exaggeration to stress that they have been reused and were wearing out?