It seems that we have to move.
marcelbdt
January 31, 2008, 12:20 PM posted in General DiscussionAs far as I can tell, the "Contemporary Chinese Literature" group has turned inaccessible. Maybe it is because we kept posting to the only existing lesson, so that comments caused some weird overflow. I suggest that the people that are interested in reading Chinese texts move to this group, so that we can continue the good work.
marcelbdt
January 31, 2008, 12:45 PMSince we can't read the comments we made on the CCL- group, I'll sum up the latest posts from memory.
We were discussing an alternative text, I suggested Eileen Zhang's "Love in a fallen city". An online version is at http://www-personal.umich.edu/~dporter/sampler/ailing.html, and it should not be hard to obtain legal copies of it (probably not electronic ones though).
I believe that this text is of very high quality. Arguments against it would be that it is probably a little more difficult to read than Wang Xiaobo, and that it is a bit old by now. My main motivation now is to read an interesting texts in Chinese together, so if you have alternatives, it's probably fine with me.
Anyhow, Liansuo seems to like my suggestion, so we are waiting for Kathy's opinion now.
liansuo
February 01, 2008, 04:39 PMOK, Marcel, here I am. Thank you for all your initiative and trouble and sorry about being of such little faith but, as I am beginning to understand, that is a sure effect of little understanding. One thing might best be explained to me right now: is there anything I should do as a member of this group beyond the obvious signing in? Please do instruct me accordingly. (If have just figured out with releif that you are the admin. and thus I do not have to worry about paying my respects to other authorities.
As you must still have been able to read before the last site collapsed on me, I have the text of the ZAL short story on hand in an edition of the 安 徽 文 藝 出 版 社. Let's hope their typesetter was not a baseball buff like the one in the previous text... I started looking at it but have not yet invested much energy and remain flexible. For the moment I am happy to sit patiently and wait for Kathy to find us...
I like the editing facilities on this site!
marcelbdt
February 01, 2008, 04:47 PMI don't think there are any rules, we are out in one of the lawless wildernesses of the internet now..:) There is no authority here as far as I know, except that Chinese Pod pays for the hosting, and could close us down if they wanted to. I don't see why they should, and I don't think that they will do it. Most likely, they will neglect us completely.
I could not read your last comment on the old site, only the first few lines.
I agree, lets just wait for Kathy now, and hear what she wants.
klgardensong
February 01, 2008, 09:31 PMThanks so much for waiting for me to find you! I kept trying the same old link before getting the bright idea to try getting in through the 88groups main page. And thank you Marcel for navigating this cyberspace - I would have been completely lost.
Looks like I missed quite a bit of back and forth, and I'm not quite sure if I'm in the right place or not - so please direct me.
I, too, like working through a text with this small group and am not sorry to leave Wang Er to his own devices. So, I've cut and pasted what I think are Marcel's 10 chunks of what we're calling Chapter 1 in Eileen Zhang's "Love in a fallen city."
I'm happy to go ahead with this based on your suggestions, as I have none of my own. I'll start working this weekend and get you some questions and thoughts as soon as I can.
Meanwhile, I would be interested in why Marcel thinks this might be a little more difficult and what era it's set in.
Glad to have found you again,
Kathy
marcelbdt
February 01, 2008, 10:31 PMWonderful! Welcome Kathy!
We survived! Kathy, you are definitely at the right place, right where we want you.
If this place breaks down like the previous one, mail me at marcelbdt@gmail.com, so that we can find each other again.
The story is set in it Shanghai and Hongkong around 1941. In the first chapters we are in the house of a wealthy traditional family, and I think that we will have to work out some old fashioned vocabulary there.
I'll also past about the first chapter in the weekend, I'm trying to figure it out right now.
There is a lot about Eileen Zhang/ Zhang Ailing on the net, you might want to check on her biography: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eileen_Chang
klgardensong
February 01, 2008, 10:57 PMWoo hoo! We're back in business. I started to google a bit, and then realized there was a lot. I will go to her biography.
I also saw a copy of our book in traditional characters, which I think I'll order. While I'm at it, I need a good tradition character dictionary. All I have is my old 一九七八年的汉英词典（北京外国学院）. Any suggestions?
K.
klgardensong
February 02, 2008, 12:07 AMCouldn't resist getting started. I really like her writing style so far. Here are a few questions for you:
(1.1) 他们唱歌唱走了板，跟不上生命的胡琴。 They’re singing off the beat and can’t keep up with life’s huqin (?). Or…can’t keep up with (the) vital huqin. Since 生命的 can be translated as vital. Or is it a looser, more poetic thought, “They’ve strayed off the beat and can’t keep up with the music of life.”?
(1.2) 说不尽的苍凉的故事──不问也罢！I wonder what the meaning/use of 尽 is here, and also how to understand 不问也罢. If 不问 can mean simply “don’t ask” but also “pay no attention, disregard, let off, let go unpunished”, and 罢 means to cease.
(1.2) I love the notion that the huqin’s story (or the story played on the huqin?) should be acted out (played) by a glamorous actor and totally get the image of singing and laughing with sleeves covering the mouth, but I don’t get two long pieces of red rouge stuck on either side of Qiong Yao’s nose! Help. [长长的两片红胭脂夹住琼瑶鼻]
(1.3) I love this whole paragraph – it’s so well written! I have to admit that although I understood the overall meaning, it took me until the second read-through to find the precise meaning of 作兴 zuo2xing1 (justifiable, permissible).
(1.4) So here we have in proper imperial fashion (皇皇然) all these characters. And just to be sure I’m on the right track, 六小姐 七小姐 etc. are wives (or concubines?). 三爷 and 四奶 etc. are parents of respective wives/concubines and grandparents of the 孩子们 living in various 房. Right?
Now that I’m getting into the dialogue, I think I may finish this weekend!! But thought I’d get the ball rolling for now.
Looking forward to hearing from you both.
K.
liansuo
February 05, 2008, 10:00 AMI just wrote a grateful reply to you both and a long response to Kathy's latest notes -- and lost it all in the computer. This makes me realize that I need to figure out a less amateurish way of dealing with my possibilities of interaction here and also a faster way of doing the Chinese characters. After all, this is meant to be fun, Marcel said a long time ago. There are moments when I would love to be able to THINK rather than just to intuit my way through life. But basic wirings can't be changed. All the more thanks for your joint patience!!
marcelbdt
February 05, 2008, 11:40 AMThat has happened to all of us, and it's SO annoying when it does.
I guess I should tell you about me and the Chinese language. It all started when i was nine or so, and found a book on the Chinese language in the library (yeah, I was weird already back then..:) I looked at the pictures, learned how to write "sun" , "person", and a few others. I was impressed by how easy this was. Some years later I found a text book called "Modern Chinese" (I think, I don't have it any more), and picked up a few signs more. This time around, I was not so convinced that it was easy..
When I was around 30, I picked up the language again. I read a course by a guy called de Frances (you might know him). This was a pure reading course. There was a lot of reading, practicing just a few characters. The texts were quite boring, after all that reading, I can't remember the content of one single text from the course. But I did get a firm hold of some 1200 characters. At the same time, I followed a slow introductory course, and picked up a small amount of the spoken language.
But after that, other things in my life took priority (like kids and work), and I did not have time for all this exotic and useless study. I kept my interest in China, and did some reading.
In the beginning of the 90s I made a new attempt. I followed a Chinese course at the university, but again I found that I did not have time for this.
About a year ago, I started learning Chinese again. Children are out there living their own lives, work is still there. So far I have been reading some adapted Chinese texts, and listened to the CPod lessons. I have never tried texts of this difficulty before, but then my Chinese language is definitely improving. I have big difficulties with listening comprehension, but it is improving. I do believe that reading and listening helps each other.
marcelbdt
January 31, 2008, 12:25 PMAs far as I can tell, the "Contemporary Chinese Literature" group has turned inaccessible. Maybe it is because we kept posting to the only existing lesson, so that comments caused some weird overflow. I suggest that the people that are interested in reading Chinese texts move to this group, so that we can continue the good work.