Only Newbie level audio free of charge from 9/01/08
hanyuxuesheng
August 26, 2008, 06:57 AM posted in General DiscussionToday I received this email from CP:
Dear Friend of ChinesePod,
From September 1st, we will introduce a new pricing system. After that, only Newbie level audio will be distributed free of charge. All other content and learning tools on the site will be available only to paid subscribers. We are doing this in order to create more value within the premium service, and will invest in new tools, such as video, and new formats to help our subscribers learn Chinese on their terms.
We are sincerely thankful for your support over the past three years, and we are committed to continually improving ChinesePod going forward. We welcome your suggestions and feedback.
Access to the site for paid subscribers will not be affected by this change, and we encourage you to upgrade your ChinesePod account (for as low as thirty cents per day) to continue taking advantage of everything ChinesePod has to offer.
Best Regards,
Ken, John and Jenny
As a nonpaying guest here and above Newbie level, I'm disappointed.
What do you think?
auntie68
August 26, 2008, 11:31 AMOops... the price of a 12-month "Premium" subscription is not USD$180, it's $239. Sorry for my error.
kencarroll
August 26, 2008, 07:18 AMhanyuxuesheng,
I was just about to write a post but you've beat me to it!
I appreciate that you may be disappointed, but let me emphasize that the motivation here is to divert resources towards creating more value for ChinesePod customers. That includes you if you are willing to sign up.
We are more committed than ever to the goal of helping people learn on your terms and these changes will enhance customers' ability to do that.
Let me also emphasize that for anyone with an existing paid subscription, there these changes will have no effect on access to any part of the service. Over the coming week, however, you will start to see some new features and benefits.
auntie68
August 26, 2008, 07:22 AMThe e-mail I received was slightly different, it actually offered me a very generous ex gratia solution which put me well ahead of my current (paid) Basic subscription.
But if I can say this without sounding ungrateful, I really regret this move by Praxis. Ken, John, and Jenny, you've just said goodbye -- forever -- to one new user base, namely the "overseas Chinese base".
People who were lurking, and maybe contributing value, but couldn't bring themselves to pay for a Basic subscription for very valid reasons such as already being reasonably comfortable with Chinese syntax due to their status as heritage speakers (or even their years of formal study of their "mother tongue").
I have already said this often enough for it to be annoying, to be sure, but I'll say it again one last time: You have added more value to your Premium package over the years, but nothing whatsoever to your Basic package. Had you added just a little more value to your Basic subscription, you might have brought many overseas Chinese like myself on board. Easily. But that was never interesting to Praxis.
One very great loss to the CPOD community is the fact that it's going to be that much more difficult to attract native speakers to the Comments thread, where they are a valuable resource. I'm sure you've already offered "CPOD heroes" like zhanglihua, cassielin, and sophie very nice incentives to stay on, but it's hard to see how you are going to keep CPOD open to fresh "local talent" in this way.
I do appreciate my very own generous incentive (and it was generous, I can't bite the hand that feeds me), but I was already getting ready to put up with a bit more inconvenience in order to get by as a non-paying user, "paying" my way as best I could by trying to be helping on your comments' threads.
Right now I am waiting to see what the new pricing system is like. If the new pricing system has a subscription level below USD$180+++ Premium, ie equivalent to the current "Basic", I would rather PAY FOR a Basic subscription (what do I need a Premium subscription for, anyway?) for myself, and make a gift of a Basic subscription to someone deserving. Could that be made an option?
But if there is nothing below the price level of a current Premium level subscription, then I thank CPOD with all my heart for everything they've done for me, but I shall go away and learn Mandarin elsewhere. Thank you.
hanyuxuesheng
August 26, 2008, 07:36 AMI understand that CP needs to earn money to create and maintain the resources offered.
In my last evaluation the Premium section does not offer very much value for me personally - only the expansion sentences would be valuable for me.
I am primarily interested in the podcast, the dialogue, and the HTML-text. The dialogue can be cut out easily and - with a software like Wenlin - the text can entered manually - it's a nice exercise. So - for me - there was no need to pay.
Another point (not to pay) is, that I do not always have the time and possibilities to access the CP ressouces (e.g. when travelling/working). So a one year (or longer) subscription would be wasted money (in my situation).
Maybe I subscribe for just one month in order to download everything I need ;-)
I really regret this change. :-(
PraxisLanguage should offer a better Basic subscription (podcast & HTML only).
auntie68
August 26, 2008, 08:03 AMP/s: @henning, @dongni: Your reasoning makes sense to me too.
For what it's worth, I don't disagree that CPOD has every right to build a healthy revenue flow in order to fund its excellent podcasts, I only question why Praxis never seems to have had any interest whatsoever in trying to encourage overseas Chinese users to become paying users, by offering them more value. For these users, learning Chinese "on your terms" may not have been served by a full Premium subscription or even a Basic Subscription.
I'm not saying that we shouldn't pay for what we receive, I've been a paying subscriber since Dec 2006. But I do want to express my dismay at the prospect of being a CPOD user without the benefit of fresh (non-paying) native speaker talent.
roscovanbasten
August 26, 2008, 08:09 AM@ Dogni
To answer your question regarding sampling lessons from all levels --- with the 7 day trial all new users can still sample the podcasts and their accompanying material from Newbie to Advanced.
@ auntie68
Subscription prices will remain the same.
In fact, current and future paying users will not be affected and over time will gain from these changes with new resources, such as video, planned for release.
auntie68
August 26, 2008, 08:15 AM@roscovanbasten: Thank you, but how can Praxis claim that current and future paying users will not be affected by a change which is going to discourage potentially very supportive native speakers from lurking, getting to feel comfortable, and then beginning to be a very valuable part of the "community of practice"? You're dreaming!
Unless of course the extra revenues will be devoted to providing enough CPOD moderators to man the comments threads so that you don't depend on volunteers -- in many cases, PAYING volunteers -- to answer "what is 的? what is 过?"-type questions... just tell us.
But since this change will really only effect the more advanced levels -- which is where the input of the non-paying native speakers like zhanglihua and cassielin and sophie is really, TRULY valuable (perhaps even irreplacable), it's not difficult for me to understand why this decision was taken. Thanks.
henning
August 26, 2008, 08:36 AMauntie68,
I suppose that this will not have the large effect on the inflow of native speakers that you predict. From what I saw so far, native mandarin speakers don't come here for the podcasts but rather for the discussions and comments. Most of cassie's valueable comments are in "free floating" threads. And the culturally focussed DAs which bind all levels together are still open. Whether you or I are correct can only be seen in the future of course.
Regarding the economical impact, hanyuxuesheng (unintentionally?) demonstrated the validity of the new business model. I am convinced this forcefully outweights the possible drawbacks which you mention.
auntie68
August 26, 2008, 08:38 AMOK, henning, you are making sense. Guess we can only wait and see. And hope for the best. Meanwhile, I'm not ecstatic...
henning
August 26, 2008, 07:18 AMI think this move was more than overdue. CPod has way too long given out way too much for free. I was always sceptical how that is supposed to work on the long run cost-benefit-wise.
Maintaining and supporting 差不多 1,000 lessons naturally gobbles up massvie ressources and the number still grows. Besides, the podcasts are the heart of the service, so why should those all be for free? Make the increment to Premium higher.
And I hope no one here wants to kill the goose that lays the golden eggs. So feed it.
hanyuxuesheng
August 26, 2008, 08:44 AM@henning:
I don't see that my behaviour (of not subscribing) demonstrates the validity of the new business model.
My decision not to pay is influenced by my needs, my financial situation and the (for me) not suitable subscription offerings.
If CP would offer better and more suitable subscription models at reasonable prices and/or better Premium features, I may become a customer.
hanyuxuesheng
August 26, 2008, 08:48 AM@ kimiik
"100.000 or 200.000 free-users of Cpod convert to paying customers"
That will not happen. ;-)
henning
August 26, 2008, 08:56 AMMaybe I subscribe for just one month in order to download everything I need
1 month > 0 month
QED :P
The delta between non-paying and paying becomes more salient. And, by the way, so does the value of the podcasts.
kmiik,
just imagine the features you could produce with the money. What about lessons, exercises, and applets on written Chinese...
lvbin
August 26, 2008, 09:05 AMI received the sad news this afternoon and it caused me to log in today, which I hadn't done in about a month or two. My initial reaction is gut-wrenching disappointment, but at the same time I understand that Chinesepod doesn't owe me a thing and that Ken, John, Jenny, and the gang gotta pay the bills somehow (or buy a few solid-gold rocket cars). You'll probably lose a few casual learners (lurkers) like me who only use Chinesepod as a supplement and not THE only method to study Chinese, but you've already got a huge base of adoring fans and those who are addicted and can't live without CPod will probably bite the bullet and cough up the cash.
I'm sure the new features will be awesome, it's just a shame they're at the expense of cheap users like me who refuse to pay for anything when we can avoid doing so. I could beg you guys to reconsider but I think we both know that's not gonna change your decision. We had some great times, Chinesepod, but I guess this is where we part ways. Best of luck in all your future endeavors.
reuben
mikenotinjubei
August 26, 2008, 09:11 AMHi Ken
This can't be my fault even if I rejoined just this week after a year in Tokyo struggling with Japanese.
It is good to see some things do not change.
New Product announcements have never seemed to be a forte of CPOD. You just make good stuff that works and is useful. I can't wait for the surprises! I guess maybe this is a 2.0 thing "buy it and find out what it is later"
I assume you will showcase/ tease us a bit and explain the new stuff somewhere on the site. I know Obama announced his VP choice with an e-mail at 3am but somehow CPOD shouldn't follow this trend.
hanyuxuesheng
August 26, 2008, 10:00 AMhenning wrote
just imagine the features you could produce with the money. What about lessons, exercises, and applets on written Chinese...
If this would come true, you have to change your subscription from Premium to "Premium PLUS" ;-)
andrew_c
August 26, 2008, 10:53 AMI always thought that they were giving away too much for free. I wonder how they'll change to account for users being able to download enough material for a few years worth of learning just during the trial premium subscription.
auntie68
August 26, 2008, 11:05 AM@andrewcorrigan: Is it possible to download podcasts and PDFs en masse at this point? I thought that CPOD was the last "-POD" to be without this functionality.
In any case, many of the key "Premium" features require you to be online in order to enjoy them. So how would any would-be-cheater-user actually download a few years' worth of "Premium" learning during the trial period (unless they know how to write computer code???)??? Is it even worth the effort?
If CPOD priced its "Basic" Subscription differently, they might be able to persuade a lot of non-paying users to convert to "Basic".
I don't think that most of these people are dishonest at heart, at this moment there doesn't seem to be enough of an incentive for a reasonably competent "heritage speaker" to shell out for "Basic", and almost no reason why any overseas Chinese would even consider shelling out an additional USD$120 extra for the frills of "Premium". CPOD doesn't even have practice tests for HSK! The question is: Do the Basic and Premium packages offer enough value to justify the USD$69 / $180 subscription for everybody? Possibly not.
But I've already flogged this donkey to death, so this is the last I shall write on this topic.
kimiik
August 26, 2008, 08:44 AMHennings, If 100.000 or 200.000 free-users of Cpod convert to paying customers, I won't call it a business model but a jackpot. ;o)
tony.cpod
August 26, 2008, 07:12 AMAfter having just crossed over from Newbie to Elementary, I can see this both ways. ChinesePod is a commercial enterprise and needs revenue to pay its employees and expand its offerings. I always viewed the free service as a sample offering, since you may not really get that far without the accompanying PDFs anyway.
Perhaps a win-win solution would have been for ChinesePod to offer an introductory set of lessons for each level (such as the first 10 or whatever) and then you need to become a paid member to access the rest. That would have let you sample the lessons before you sign up. Or is this already the case with the trial account you can take up? I honestly forget.