Phonetic example
goulnik
September 18, 2008, 03:14 PM posted in General Discussion
Here's a possible way to organize characters around phonetic elements, the phonetic character here is 反 (central place, but vertical table boundaries aren't displayed) :
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ban |
版 bǎn n. printing plate/edition 出版 chūbǎn v. publish; come out |
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板 bǎn n. board; plank 黑板 hēibǎn n. blackboard |
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fan |
返 fǎn v. return 返回 fǎnhuí r.v. come/go back |
反 fǎn turn over /upside down /on the contrary 反对 fǎnduì v. oppose; be against |
饭 fàn n. cooked rice or other cereals 早饭 zǎofàn n. breakfast |
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pan |
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叛 pàn b.f. betray; rebel; revolt 反叛 fǎnpàn v. revolt; rebel |
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henning
September 18, 2008, 03:25 PMThere is a group that I created to collected this sort of groupings:
http://chinesepod.com/community/groups/view/27
You are of course invited to join and add your content.
changye
September 19, 2008, 03:07 AMI’m always impressed with goulniky’s great works and his systematic approach to learning Chinese.
It’s very interesting to see all these 反- related characters at the same time. There are three different pronunciations for the phonetic radical “反”, but they all belong to 唇音 (labial consonant), which makes sense phonetically. The character “叛” is a little tricky. It seems to me that 反 is a semantic radical, and 半 indicates both a sound and a meaning, just like 判 (pan4)，畔，泮，牉，胖.
I once asked one of my Chinese friends why some phonetic radicals have several sounds just like cumbersome 多音字. I also said to him that it would be much more convenient for foreign learners if every phonetic radical only had one pronunciation. He just replied, saying “You’ve got it backward. If so, flood of homonyms would certainly drive you crazy.” What he said is very right.
goulnik
September 19, 2008, 04:37 AMthanks changye, but 不好意思!
it's interesting that you should mention 判 (pàn) distinguish; discriminate / to judge; decide. When I posted this, I mistakenly used as an example 判定 (pàndìng) judge; determine. No excuse really, more than a 细微差别 (xìwēi chābié) subtle difference but I still got confused.
goulnik
September 19, 2008, 04:57 AMTo build on changye's example (could only find one word containing 胖 as pán) :
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pan |
判 pàn distinguish; discriminate / to judge; decide. 判定 pàndìng judge; determine. |
胖 pán comfortable; contented 心宽体胖 xīnkuāntǐpán carefree and contented |
畔 pàn side; bank 河畔 hépàn river side/bank |
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ban |
伴 bàn to accompany; companion 伙伴 huǒbàn partner; companion |
半 bàn half; very little; partly 半天 bàntiān half a day; a long time |
绊 bàn to stumble; obstruction 绊脚 bànjiǎo to trip up; be in the way |
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pang |
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胖 pàng fat; stout; plump 胖病 pàngbìng obesity |
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goulnik
September 19, 2008, 09:17 AMhenning, I'll have to decide to either start a new group or use yours if I start doing this systematically. I have added a function to my multi-purpose script to easily generate tables such as the ones above, it's just that CPod seems to have disabled importing colour formatting again. They seem to treat Javascript and inline CSS the same way, which means I'm going to stop offering any group entry until such time as they get it sorted out - no answer from them on this topic :-(
henning
September 19, 2008, 09:33 AMThey definately need to reactivate it. CSS is not JavaScript. Coloring is crucial for various groups.
I would love to see your posting your results in my group as it follows the same basic idea.
If I only had time to add some more posts there myself. Currently I am already busy enough doing the lessons, reading your news, and (slowly, very slowly) catching up with the 红楼梦-group...
goulnik
September 19, 2008, 09:56 AMfine, I'll come to your group, I really don't need more of my own and it's good to mix related threads.
goulnik
September 19, 2008, 07:08 PMit looks like the css user-formatting is enabled again, so I'll be adding more examples
mandarinboy
September 18, 2008, 03:01 PMI strongly agree to this:-) I use this my self and build up my own database around this with all the words that I learn. For me this works great since I need to se patterns to understand. Radicals, phonetic elements, etymology, tones are all patterns to me. By creating an tree with the components I can then drill down and look at the data in many different ways. Most likely this approach is not suitable for everyone but it works great for my tiny brain. Even when I talk Chinese I se the characters in my mind and they are to me the essence of Chinese. Without the characters i would most likely not study Chinese at all.