calkins,

well done.Very apt for today and nice picture to boot.

changye,

Thanks;very interesting.

You say:

"it is understandable that there were thoughts similar to 七曜 created in many regions all over the world"

..which I would agree with [they were all star gazers and didn't have air and light polution to block out such a wonder].What surprised me though is that the celestial bodies are in the same order for both east and west.Seems like more than mere coincidence.Hellenistic Egypt was also over 2000 years ago and of course I think the silk route was happening at this time.But I really don't know;it's just interesting.Your posts are always fascinating.Thanks.

ps Actually ,now that I read your post again,I think I see that you are saying the words for Monday etc are relatively recent which would to me suggest that they were in fact lined up with the western order.I couldn't translate 七曜 properly  [I know the  first character is  7 ;and I think you are still referring to celestial bodies?;is that what the second character refers to]  so I'm not  sure I fully understood what you were saying  about what was happening 2000 years ago in China.

pps don't worry.The more I read your post ,the more I think we're now on the same page.Correct me if I'm wrong but I think you are saying the ancient Chinese had the concept of the same 7 celestial bodies [the ones visible with the naked eye] but the 7 day week was introduced by the west.Interesting.If anything I would have expected it to be the other way around as I have this notion that Chinese at least historically viewed time in more of a circular fashion ,whereas the west viewed it in more of a linear fashion.At least that's what I've been led to believe.Is that notion correct and still in contemporary Chinese thought?

Thanks changye.  When I had copied that sentence from nciku, I had wondered about 金风 (mainly because MDBG couldn't translate it).  nciku did give a brief explanation here, but it wasn't nearly as good as yours!

And thanks bababarwan, your appreciation is always appreciated :)

guys,国庆节快乐！

I am so happy that we have seven-day long holiday!^_^

uncle changye,

I adore you, you know more about chinese characters than me!

For some obscure reason ,my motivation for learning chinese characters has just increased.

7-day long holiday?  I'm moving to China!!

;)

哈哈Brent，Welcome to China ! Come on and join us!

this 7-day long holiday is really come in time! I need it to have a good rest and then back to work!

I think it is good for us too...because we've missed Miss Cassie.  Speaking of, when is your phone interview?  Might be a good week to do it!

Did I tell you that I will have a phone interview before? I think it is a secret！！！Guess maybe I missed some threads or comments about this phone interview!!Did i?

加油CASSIELIN!!!

Hi calkins,

Let me explain why 金凤 means “秋风, autumn wind”. The word was invented based on Chinese 五行说 (Five-elements thought), where natural phenomena can be classified into 五行 (five elements), and things belong to the same element are regarded as group members. Both 金 and 秋 belong the group (4) in the table below.

…..五行 四季 四方 四面 五色 四神
(1) 木.… 春..… 东…. 左..…青… 龙
(2) 火.… 夏….. 南…. 前..... 朱… 雀
(3) 土….土用...中央..中央...黄….nil
(4) 金.… 秋….. 西…. 右.... 白… 虎
(5) 水.… 冬.…. 北…. 后.... 玄…..武 (= 龟)

P/S I suppose this might be why Chinese emperors usually wear 黄金色 (golden yellow) clothes. It's the color placed at the center in Five elements thought.

ummm,

really! SOMEBODY let the cat out of the bag! I have three options! A B C!!! which one? I should think about it real hard!

About this idiom,“let the cat out of the bag”, my online dictionary says that it means 真相大白or泄露秘密in chinese!

我很喜欢猫猫！！ 我有二只猫猫！哈哈！

Hi Changye,

As always, you bring interesting information.

(4) 金.… 秋….. 西…. 右.... 白… 虎

This line made me realize that we also may ear about 小虎 (the prolix poddie) today. ;o)

Hi kimiik,

Actually, Japanese people are "somewhat familiar" with 五行思想 (Five-elements thought). In Japanese (and Korean), the days of the week are called as follows,

日曜日 (Sun)　Sunday
月曜日 (Moon)　Monday
火曜日 (Mars)　Tuesday
水曜日 (Mercury)　Wednesday
木曜日 (Jupiter)　Thursday
金曜日 (Venus) Friday
土曜日 (Saturn) Saturday

This system is based on the theory "七曜 " (qi1-yao4) that was imported from China in the past, and it is said that "火水木金土" in 七曜 is probably originated in 五行思想.

changye

Interesting that in French,the days of the week also sound similar to the planets you have set out above.Where did this idea originate;in the east or west?

Bababardwan,

It doesn't come from french but from latin.

kimiik,

Thanks.Actually ,just before reading your post tried to answer my own question and found this in wikipedia:

"Various sources point to the seven day week as having originated in ancient Babylonia or Sumer. It has been suggested that a seven day week might be much older. The seven day planetary week originated in Hellenistic Egypt."

I love the Latin derivation of words [most words in English also either have a Latin or Greek derivation] so thanks for setting that out Kimiik.Cheers.

Interesting that if the concept started in Egypt,that it made itself to the Far East.

Hi bababardwan,

I think the theory of 七曜 is originated in China, since the concept similar to it already appeared in China more than two thousand years ago. Anyway, the sun, the moon and five planets were very special expecially for ancient people, since they are the only celestial bodies that move across the sky and can be seen with the naked eye, except for comets and meteors. And therefore it is understandable that there were thoughts similar to 七曜 created in many regions all over the world.

They say that “the seven-day week” was introduced to China by western missionaries around 15th or 16th centuries, but this custom didn’t take root in Chinese society until the early 20th century. Perhaps it became gradually popular (...?) in China after the fall of the Qing dynasty (清朝) in 1911. Anyway, the words such as 星期一，星期二 and 星期天 are relatively new in China. In Japan, the seven-day week was officially introduced at the end of 19th century, after the Meiji restoration.

P/S. I think I heard somewhere that there was the custom of seven-day week, or something like that, sometime in ancient China, although I’m not so sure about that. I have a bad memory.

Cassie, somebody let the cat out of the bag :) 

Is there a similar phrase in Chinese?