phonetic map : 耑 duan

goulnik

October 13, 2008, 04:31 AM

hard to believe all these pronuniciations derive from duan

henning

October 13, 2008, 02:13 PM

CSV-list (for the import to Flashcard apps; "@" is delimeter):

喘@chuǎn@to gasp for breath
喘气@chuǎnqì@to breathe deeply; pant
急湍@jítuān@n. swift current
惴@zhuì@worried and fearful; anxious
惴恐@zhuìkǒng@to fear; dread
挣揣@zhèngchuài@to struggle; strive hard
揣@chuāi; chuǎi; chuài@chuāi: to hide/carry in one's clothes; to hide/carry in one's clothes - chuǎi: to estimate; surmise
揣想@chuāixiǎng@to think over; guess
揣测@chuǎicè@to guess; conjecture
无端@wúduān@for no reason
极端@jíduān@extreme(ly)
瑞@ruì@auspicious
瑞禾@ruìhé@excellent crop
痰喘@tánchuǎn@asthma
端@duān@extremity; reason /to. hold level
端上@duānshàng@to carry carefully
符瑞@fúruì@auspicious omen
耑@duān@(old form of 端 duān)
踹@chuài@to kick; tread on
踹田@chuàitián@to tread the field
遄@chuán@rapidly; repeatedly
遄返@chuánfǎn@to hurry back
颛@zhuān@ignorant

taiwanator

October 13, 2008, 07:11 PM

only 4 are common (first 3500 char)

998  端 [duān] hold sth. level with both hands; extremity, end

1332 瑞 [ruì] auspicious, good omen

2122 喘 [chuǎn] pant, gasp

2869 揣 [chuāi] carry in ones clothes

the rest is exotic.

IMHO you should concentrate on the most important (3500) char. 

goulnik

October 13, 2008, 07:37 PM

taiwanator, you're right, and we do.

these maps may contain a few 'exotic' characters or pronunciations, but they are not comprehensive. I certainly make arbitrary choices but I do strive to keep things as simple and useful as possible. still, the purpose being to illustrate the phonetic elements in all their variations.

in this specific case, other characters that were not listed above include 偳 [duān], 剬 [duān] [zhì] [zhuǎn], 圌 [chuán] [chuí] [chuān], 媏 [duān], 椯 [yē] [duó] [chuǎi] [chuán],歂 [chuán] [chuǎn], 煓 [qián] [shān] [shǎn] [tuān], 諯 [chuán] [chuàn] [xuàn] [zhàn], 貒 [tuān] [huān] [tuàn], 輲 [chuán] [shuàn]

 

changye

October 14, 2008, 07:30 AM

Hi goulniky,

hard to believe all these pronuniciations derive from duan

I think what you said above is very important, which has been on my mind since I read it yesterday.

I guess characters that have the same phonetic radical did not necessarily have the same sound when they were invented in ancient times. I imagine some of them had slightly different sounds from the beginning. And as historical phonology tells you, differences have gradually widened over a long period of time.

On the other hand, if they all had had the same sounds in the past, their sound would have been much more similar to each other today. Astrophysicists also say that fluctuations of density in the early universe were indispensable for the creation of stars and galaxies, hehe.   

goulnik

October 14, 2008, 10:54 AM

changye,

assuming 耑 has been added intentionally and is in a phonetic rather than semantic role, the explanation that some of them had slightly different sounds from the beginning is plausible only if their sound has dramatically changed over the centuries. One possibility is they have borrowed the sound of a related word / character or from another dialect maybe?

other interesting point above : in most cases, the phonetic component is on the right and the radical on the left (e.g. 喘、端、湍、揣、踹、惴、瑞), can also be top (遄) or center (圌) but there's an exception here with 颛 even though the pronunciation zhuan is consistent with 耑.

there are a few reasons why I am producing these phonetic maps, one of them being to test how predictive the concept is, which is generally quite high in my experience, not fool proof but gives a good indication at least. as I move forward, I might develop an indicator of phonetic range, from 1 (留 liu) to 10 (耑) through 反 (fan pan ban). This would have to combine the range and degree of proximity for both consonants and vowels.

 

henning

October 14, 2008, 11:14 AM

goulniky,

as I see it, the main value of the maps is that they help moving more quickly beyond those self-enforcing "top-2000" characters - for Western Intermediate learners and to enforce writing ability. This is also why I create Flashcard groups with your material.

The visual depiction is especially helpful as it makes exceptions stick out - you can thereby single those out and concentrate your memory power on them.

However, if you pursue purposes of analysis and deeper insight you might want to switch to traditional and consult with some of Changye's ethymology resources. (?)