phonetic map : 氐 di
goulnik
November 14, 2008, 06:20 PM posted in General Discussion
| di | ||
| * 氐 Dī ancient tribe 氐羌 Dī Qiāng nomadic, western tribe |
氐 dǐ basic; thoroughgoing 氐惆 dǐchóu annoyed; vexed; upset |
低 dī low 降低 jiàngdī to reduce; drop 低下 dīxià low (status etc.) |
| 底 dǐ bottom; end; ground / basic 彻底 chèdǐ thorough(ly) 到底 dàodǐ finally; after all. 本底 běndǐ background |
抵 dǐ to support; resist; mortgage; arrive at 抵抗 dǐkàng to resist; stand up to 抵押 dǐyā to mortgage 抵补 dǐbǔ to compensate for 抵达 dǐdá to reach; arrive at |
柢 dǐ tree root 根柢 gēndǐ foundation; basis |
| 砥 dǐ grindstone; whetstone 砥石 dǐshí whetslate; whetstone 砥砺 dǐlì to temper; encourage |
邸 dǐ residence of a high official 官邸 guāndǐ official residence |
羝 dī ram; billy goat 羝羊 dīyáng ram; he-goat |
| 诋 dǐ scold; upbraid; libel 诋毁 dǐhuǐ to slander; defame 讥诋 jīdǐ to satirize and slander |
骶 dǐ coccyx 骶骨 dǐgǔ n. sacrum |
|
| chi | ||
| 鸱 chī sparrow hawk 油鸱 yóuchī oilbird |
||
| zhi | ||
| 胝 zhī . 胼胝 piánzhī callosity / to toil |
祗 zhī respect 祗肃 zhīsù v.p. respectful; reverent |
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** 抵 variants : 牴/觝
changye
November 15, 2008, 08:40 AMIt's not an accepted theory, but some scholars say that "氐" (di3, base) and "氏" (shi4, clan) are originated in the same character in oracle bone scripts (甲骨文). In a sense, you could say that "clan" is a "base" organization for families in ancient society. Do you think it's plausible?
"释名", an ancient Chinese dictionary edited around the 3rd century, says "纸，砥也，谓平滑如砥石也", which means that 纸 (zhi3, paper) is something like 砥 (di3, grind stone) since its surface is smooth just like a grind stone, from which you can see a close relationship between "氐" and "氏".
goulnik
November 15, 2008, 09:28 AMmay well be... but according to Wenlin 氏 is etymologically the same word as 底 dǐ, with "The 丶 stroke at the bottom is signific (cf. 本) and 氏 (shì) phonetic" --Karlgren..
on the other hand, it also indicates that 民 mín "is analogous to 氏 shì clan, family, both of doubtful analyis" --Karlgren.
anyway, 氏 shì will be the next character map, thanks
changye
November 15, 2008, 12:05 PMHi goulniky,
The study by Karlgren is considered to be somewhat out-of-date now since his works doesn't much reflect the research results of oracle bone scripts (甲骨文), however, please don't take me wrong. As far as etymologies concerned, I don't think that "out-of-date" automatically means "wrong". After all, noboday knows true etymologies, unless you are the creator of a character!
bendidelaowai
November 15, 2008, 06:36 AMGoulniky, 佩服您！谢谢！
Great, great, great work! It really is more interesting for me than learning characters by radicals:) I have to deal with big amounts of written text in Chinese and knowing the pronunciation is crucial for me most of the time, because even with the great Wenlin looking up characters takes time.
And also I want to say thanks to Changye for his contributions, which are extremely interesting:) as well to henning for his patience with writing lists!
Thanks, you all helped me learn more:)