weird country names
baifameizhong
November 19, 2008, 09:11 AM posted in General DiscussionHi everybody
As many of you surely know many of the countries when translated into Chinese are based on how it sounds when pronounced in English or the country's language. That's why England get's the name 英国 and America 美国 .Usually the characters are not meant in their original meaning but are only there to fit the sound. So the 美 doesn't necessarily mean beautiful 美国.
I, however, am from Switzerland and just like we have a special treatment for banks and political status, we seem to get special treatment with the Chinese word for Switzerland: 瑞士 (rui4 shi4). To me that pronounciation doesn't fit the pronounciation to Switzerland in any of the languages that might make sense (English, German, French, Italian...).
Does anyone else know of countries where the Chinese doesn't appear to make much sense, i.e. come from the pronounciation? And, maybe even more importantly, does anyone know where the pronounciation DOES come from?
David
kimiik
November 19, 2008, 10:51 AM瑞典 (Sweden) also comes from the Cantonese pronunciation.
tvan
November 19, 2008, 12:32 PMAlso, I'm not sure that a lot of the older names were necessarily intended to sound like the country's English pronunciation. 美国 was, I believe, meant to convey that that the U.S. was beautiful (at least California, the part that most immigrants landed in), 德国 virtuous, and 英国 brave. San Francisco used to be called 金山, but when the gold rush petered out, it became 旧金山.
pearltowerpete
November 19, 2008, 01:39 PMHi tvan,
Is that for real about San Francisco? What a great example of language keeping up with the times.
I just hope we get global warming under control and I never live to see my beloved city become 下海.
changye
November 19, 2008, 01:41 PMHi tvan,
In a way, "法国" also makes sense. I hear that French is still an important language when you study international laws, and that is one of the reasons why French is one of the official languages in the United Nations.
tvan
November 19, 2008, 02:30 PMpearltowerpete, insofar as change to 旧金山, I have no citable sources, but it's what the old-time SF Chinese say. I do know for a fact that San Francisco used to be called 金山.
changye, I agree that 法国/法國/Fǎgúo makes perfect sense, especially when taken in the context of the 19th century world. Likewise, 英国/英國/Yīnggúo considering that it was the reigning superpower at the time.
changye
November 20, 2008, 02:21 AM“希腊” (xi1la4, Greece) is a rather tricky transliteration too. It's a Cantonese transcription of the sound "Hellas", an ancient Greek word that means "Greece". So, knowledge about English and Mandarin don't help you much to infer the origin/etymology of "希腊".
tvan
November 20, 2008, 03:38 AMThen there's 西班牙/xībānyá/Spain. It doesn't sound much like Spain (to me) in either Mandarin or Cantonese and, unless there's some alternate classical Chinese meaning, Western Team Tooth doesn't do a lot for me.
All I can come up with is that it shares its last character with its Iberian neighbor, the aptly named 葡萄牙/pútáoyá/Republica Portuguesa/Grape Tooth.
pearltowerpete
November 20, 2008, 04:14 AMHi tvan
I guess the origin of 西班牙 is from the Spanish España. But I do like the idea of a country called Grape Tooth.
Let's not forget 日本，the land of the Rising Sun (literally, sun origin.)
changye
November 19, 2008, 09:38 AMHi baifameizhong,
If you pronounce "瑞士" in Cantonese, it would sound very similar to "Swiss", which means that the word introduced in mainland China by people who speak Cantonese. There are a lot of words of this kind in Mandarin.